"Rich" Christians?

[Rad]

Rad I'm aware this post is to Hitch...But....What is meant by "Poor" What is "The Kingdom of Heaven" and where is it?

The rich man did not go to hell because he was rich...Did he?

Why do you use a 'song' as an authority? (Magnificat)

In the Babylonian system, in which we live, giving is foolish but in Gods financial system giving is not Matthew 6:19-21 "Do not store up Treasure on Earth but it IS storing up your treasures in heaven....The more you give, the more is given to you, the more you give, the more is given...and your treasure is stored in heaven...... You need to stop "interpreting scripture through the screen of religion....Religion IS the Babylonian system.

Hi Admon, whats meant by poor?, if youre talking of material poverty then i guess at its heart its a lack of money, money to buy food, housing, clean water, adequate sanitation, provision of education and health services, the situation nearly 1 billion people find themselves in at the moment in this world, and there are many hundreds of millions more working in slave like conditions who make enough money to just scrape by, .......and "The Kingdom of Heaven" is just what it says, and in this context is the "reward" for those deemed worthy, as Christ says in Matthew 25vs 34, " Come you blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the Foundations of the World"

As for the Rich man going to Hell because he was Rich, well lets see what Christ has to say, "
Luke 16:22-26
New International Version
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So what do you think, because it seems pretty clear to me.

As to the Magnificat, you feel there is something lacking in that part of scripture, you feel it has less worth than any other part of Christs teaching, i used it because its part of Gods word and is another clear indication of Gods condemnation of the rich and Lifting up of the poor, it seems to me he is indeed a God of the Poor and Oppressed and a condemner of the Rich and Oppressor.

Actually i think we are in agreement on your fourth point, and i think ive also been misunderstanding your point on giving, we give our earthly riches and God gives us Treasure in Heaven, we give out of Love and compassion our Treasure to the poor and needy and God stores our Treasure in Heaven, so we are not Rich in earthly terms but are rich in Heaven, .... but, if after we've given, we're still rich in earthly terms, then that shows our heart is still with our riches and we shall suffer Gods condemnation, for as Christ said in Luke 6 :24" Woe to you that are Rich, for you have received your consolation", which he then reiterated in the passage from Luke 16 quoted above.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hi Bob, let me quote Matthew 6 vs 19-21 one more time,
Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth,

But what if what you HAVE, isn't "Treasure", but just "possessions"?? God couldn't care less what you HAVE. Its what HAS YOU that concerns Him, and MONEY isn't the root of all evil, the LOVE OF IT is.

OF COURSE your "heart" will be with your "TREASURE". Not necessarily with your "possessions".

It occurred to me some time ago that if my house were to burn to the ground tonight, the only REAL "Loss" (other than convenience) would be photographs of those loved but long dead, and in many cases gone forever. Everything else is just "Stuff". Johnny Cash reached the same conclusion, referring to his success as his "House of Dirt".

 

[Hitch]

Hi Admon, whats meant by poor?, if youre talking of material poverty then i guess at its heart its a lack of money, money to buy food, housing, clean water, adequate sanitation, provision of education and health services, the situation nearly 1 billion people find themselves in at the moment in this world, and there are many hundreds of millions more working in slave like conditions who make enough money to just scrape by, .......and "The Kingdom of Heaven" is just what it says, and in this context is the "reward" for those deemed worthy, as Christ says in Matthew 25vs 34, " Come you blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the Foundations of the World"

As for the Rich man going to Hell because he was Rich, well lets see what Christ has to say, "
Luke 16:22-26
New International Version
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So what do you think, because it seems pretty clear to me.

As to the Magnificat, you feel there is something lacking in that part of scripture, you feel it has less worth than any other part of Christs teaching, i used it because its part of Gods word and is another clear indication of Gods condemnation of the rich and Lifting up of the poor, it seems to me he is indeed a God of the Poor and Oppressed and a condemner of the Rich and Oppressor.

Actually i think we are in agreement on your fourth point, and i think ive also been misunderstanding your point on giving, we give our earthly riches and God gives us Treasure in Heaven, we give out of Love and compassion our Treasure to the poor and needy and God stores our Treasure in Heaven, so we are not Rich in earthly terms but are rich in Heaven, .... but, if after we've given, we're still rich in earthly terms, then that shows our heart is still with our riches and we shall suffer Gods condemnation, for as Christ said in Luke 6 :24" Woe to you that are Rich, for you have received your consolation", which he then reiterated in the passage from Luke 16 quoted above.

, i used it because its part of Gods word and is another clear indication of Gods condemnation of the rich and Lifting up of the poor,

12 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.

13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.

14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.

15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.

16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.

17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

Further speaking of Abe:

The Lord has greatly blessed my master, so that he has become rich; and he has given him flocks and herds, and silver and gold, and servants, and maids and camels and donkeys.

Issac:

Now Isaac sowed in that land, and reaped in the same year a hundredfold. And the Lord blessed him, and the man became rich, and continued to grow richer until he became very wealthy.

Dave;
And, behold, in my trouble I have prepared for the house of the Lord a hundred thousand talents of gold, and a million talents of silver, and of bronze and iron without weight . . . (1Chronicles 22:14)

 

[Waggles]

James 2:14 What profits it, my brethren, if one say he hath faith, but have not works? can the faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and lacking daily food,
16 and one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled; and ye give them not the things needful to the body; what profits it?
17 Even so the faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Yes; it is a truth well understood and upheld in Pentecost
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

LOL I meant peculiar in terms of preferring to believe doctrines rather than Word. Its all through the bible, from Genesis to Revelation, how God wants to prosper His kids in the here and now as well as in heaven....but Christians choose to believe we're to be paupers in this world.....Peculiar!

 

[Waggles]

but Christians choose to believe we're to be paupers in this world.....Peculiar!

What is peculiar is you promulgating a doctrine of material wealth and worldly prosperity in defiance of the many scriptures teaching against this.
And Godliness with contentment does not mean being a pauper - a modest lifestyle with a heart to care and share when necessary.

Matthew 13:22 And he sown among the thorns, this is who heareth the word; and the care of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, chokes the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mark 4:18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Luke 8:14 And what fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and while going on are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no perfect fruit.

 

[Hitch]

What is peculiar is you promulgating a doctrine of material wealth and worldly prosperity in defiance of the many scriptures teaching against this.
And Godliness with contentment does not mean being a pauper - a modest lifestyle with a heart to care and share when necessary.

Matthew 13:22 And he sown among the thorns, this is who heareth the word; and the care of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, chokes the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mark 4:18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Luke 8:14 And what fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and while going on are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no perfect fruit.

Was Job wealthy? Was Abe Wealthy? Was Isaac wealthy?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

What is peculiar is you promulgating a doctrine of material wealth and worldly prosperity in defiance of the many scriptures teaching against this.
And Godliness with contentment does not mean being a pauper - a modest lifestyle with a heart to care and share when necessary.

Matthew 13:22 And he sown among the thorns, this is who heareth the word; and the care of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, chokes the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mark 4:18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Luke 8:14 And what fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and while going on are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no perfect fruit.

If God gives us the power and authority to get wealth, wouldn't that be a good thing? Would God give us something bad for us?

 

[Hitch]

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.”


A good man leaveth an inheritance to his charity's children: and the wealth of the sinner is just.”

Pick one.

 

[Reba1]

I kinda think how one gains wealth matters... If one is selling the gospel like he is a used car salesman that is not good. IF a man works and is blessed by the Lord via the mans ability i see nothing wrong . Some one who uses people as stepping stones,, his dollar is tainted and ugly. There is no humbleness in one who proclaims his misery the same for the man who proclaims his wealth. A poor man does not have a job to offer another . One of the reasons so much of the USA is ugly was the lack of education a generation ago. Set on your backside and wait for rapture ...

 

[Waggles]

If God gives us the power and authority to get wealth, wouldn't that be a good thing? Would God give us something bad for us?

You need to have a chat with Jesus as He is the author of His teachings to us.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

You need to have a chat with Jesus as He is the author of His teachings to us.

Nice dodge... Would God give us something bad for us?

 

[Waggles]

What exactly are the "riches" that the scriptures refer to??
Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gets understanding.
14 For its profit is better than the gain from silver, and its increase more than fine gold;
15 she is more precious than rubies, and all the things you can desire are not to be compared with her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand, riches and honour in her left hand.

 

[Waggles]

Nice dodge... Would God give us something bad for us?

The world is full of good and evil things.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

What exactly are the "riches" that the scriptures refer to??
Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gets understanding.
14 For its profit is better than the gain from silver, and its increase more than fine gold;
15 she is more precious than rubies, and all the things you can desire are not to be compared with her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand, riches and honour in her left hand.

Mr Waggles Riches covers a whole range types...Wisdom is the best kind as stated. Financial riches in my estimation but are still essential. We live in a material world and we need material riches to operate....To say "I only want enough for me and my family to get by" would be incredibley selfish, considering all those who do not have access to the riches of our father. If your next door neighbor was about to lose his house, and you could trust God to give you the money to pay it off, then you went to the neighbor and shared the gospel with him, then gave him the money to save his house, what impact could that have? What's the saying? The right tool for the job

 

[Waggles]

If your next door neighbor was about to lose his house, and you could trust God to give you the money to pay it off, then you went to the neighbor and shared the gospel with him, then gave him the money to save his house, what impact could that have?

Thankyou for your generous offer to help out - I only need a paltry $US300,000 to secure freehold on a house here Downunder.
I will PM you my bank account deposit details.

Now that I think of it I should set up a Go Fund Me page and encourage other rich Christians to donate to us paupers.
Anybody know Joel Osteen's personal email address??

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Thankyou for your generous offer to help out - I only need a paltry $US300,000 to secure freehold on a house here Downunder.
I will PM you my bank account deposit details.

Now that I think of it I should set up a Go Fund Me page and encourage other rich Christians to donate to us paupers.
Anybody know Joel Osteen's personal email address??

Sarcasm doe not become you sir. I did ask you a legitimate question

 

[Dave M]

Would God give us something bad for us?

what you and I think is bad might be the best thing that is has ever happened to us. God uses hard things some may consider bad to grow and mature us. You find out what a person is made of, see how they behave when bad things happen to them. We are not promised a easy life now.

 

[Dave M]

Nice dodge... Would God give us something bad for us?

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)

 

[Hitch]

You need to have a chat with Jesus as He is the author of His teachings to us.

The Author also said :



Deuteronomy 8:18 ESV
You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.
Proverbs 10:4 ESV
A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Maybe you just didnt chat long enough.