Sinless Perfection?

[At Peace]

Yes, they are... even in your Bible.

Why not confront the rest of verse 9?

 

[Curtis]

Today is the day...
It is written..."We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)" (2 Cor 6:1-2)

The day of salvation is not the day of Jesus Christ. (1 cor 4: 1-8)

 

[Curtis]

So you CAN be cleansed from ALL unrighteousness...but you just can't say it?
How ludicrous.

Have you already received your incoruptible body that has no sin? You can not kill sin in the flesh you can only contain it. Why? Because sin is the transgression of the law. The strength of sin is the law. Where did the law come from? From God. The flesh will always be sinful until it is changed, which is why Paul said, I know that in me, that is in my flesh dwells not good thing. God does not dwell in mans flesh, he dwells within mans heart (spirit)

 

[Born Again 2004]

If you commit "it" you ARE a slave to "it".
It is written..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
He also said that no man can serve two masters, and that he will hate the one and love the other.
Servants of sin hate God.

Oh thank you Father for giving us the truth that can set us free from service to sin!
Thank you for the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism for the remission of past sins.
Thank you for the Comforter.
And thank you for scripture like..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Thank you for the escapes!

It is so nice to be so perfect, when ,categorically, the rest of us are not!

• I am not sure about this but, though many here feel you have the right to say what you say about yourself, I have seen no one that agrees with you. Does this mean you are going to heaven where the rest of us are not?
• James 1:5-6 ....note it says God gives freely to all, without finding fault. I wonder what it means "finding no fault" by God? Would "a fault" here be a sin? Just wondering!

 

[Curtis]

There is no such thing as a Christian who serves sin.
The seed of God remains in them.
I've been chastised for my past sins: chastised enough not to do them anymore.

Let just pretend you really are sinless (Which you are not) lets just pretend you are. So, in the Church you go to you find a wife, and she to believes she is sinless. If both of you are sinless that would mean if you have children, your children would be 100% sinless!!! That has never happened in the history of the world. There has never been a sinless husband, and sinless wife that had sinless children...ever.

The human body was NOT redeemed when a person is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, because it is still "corruptible". If the body was redeemed at salvation then it would be free of sin, which means it would never die.

1Cor 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

We are waiting to know the "redemption" of our bodies (Romans 8:23) The word, "redemption" means free of sin!!

The Apostle Paul said.....

1Co 9:26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.
1Co 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (NIV)

Spiritual bodies that are incorruptible, and immortal do not need to be made a slave because it has no sin in it.

As Paul said......

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Mortal, corruptible bodies means they will die because of sin in them.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[B-A-C]

Why not confront the rest of verse 9?

Wouldn't it be convenient if that was the only verse in the Bible? Or even 1st John. But it's not.
Still even in verse 9.

ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.
Total KJV occurrences: 576

"prolonged form of" the opposite of prolonged would be immediate.
Your definition is the opposite of the word "poieo". This is the King James definition by the way.

Also, I would mention that NO ONE in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately upon
salvation. John the Baptist had it from the womb. Possibly Jesus also. But no one else in the NT.
Did Jesus have it before He was baptized? Hard to say, it's possible.

But all 5 instances in Acts were some period of time after they became believers.

 

[KingJ]

Being aware of our sins is very important. God does not answer the prayers of sinners John 9:31. This applies fully to the unsaved but is also something the saved need to be aware of.

But, there is a bigger issue at hand. Much bigger then our sinless perfection. It is our love. God's perfection is judged according to His love as God is love 1 John 4:8.

We can achieve sinless perfection, but if we have not got love, we have.......nothing 1 Cor 13:2.

 

[Curtis]

Sin is totally undetectable as it dwells in the flesh of man in a "dormant" state until the Word of God exposes it in man. This is why the "law" was given so sin in man would go from being dormant in man to coming alive.

The Apostle Paul said that as far as he knew he thought he was alive at one time until the law came, and sin in him came alive, and kill him!

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul said, ".....sin revived...." The word "revived" means, "to resuscitate, to rise from the dead"!!

Sin is the transgression of the law, the strength of sin is the law!! (1 Cor 15:56) There is no way sin can ever be made to not exist!! As long as the Word of God exists, which is forever, the possibilities of transgressing the Word will always exist, which means sin will always exist. I know this because all who have transgressed the laws of God, and have never made Jesus Christ their Lord so as to remove their sins will be cast into the lake of fire. They will always exist along with their sins in the lake of fire. Sin can not be killed, only contained, and or suppressed within the flesh of man, the physical body must be replaced with another body that is not contaminated with sin. That will only happen at the resurrection of the dead.

 

[At Peace]

Have you already received your incoruptible body that has no sin? You can not kill sin in the flesh you can only contain it. Why? Because sin is the transgression of the law. The strength of sin is the law. Where did the law come from? From God. The flesh will always be sinful until it is changed, which is why Paul said, I know that in me, that is in my flesh dwells not good thing. God does not dwell in mans flesh, he dwells within mans heart (spirit)

"My" corruptible body was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is "His" body now.
It has no sin.
After the final judgment I will receive a new, glorified vessel. (Phil 3:21)
Paul was aware of all this when he wrote Romans 7...a transition point between his past life in the flesh and his present life walking in the Spirit.

 

[At Peace]

The day of salvation is not the day of Jesus Christ. (1 cor 4: 1-8)

That POV might make a good thread, if you want to pursue it.

 

[Curtis]

"My" corruptible body was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is "His" body now.
It has no sin.
After the final judgment I will receive a new, glorified vessel. (Phil 3:21)
Paul was aware of all this when he wrote Romans 7...a transition point between his past life in the flesh and his present life walking in the Spirit.

Then you do not need a new body as yours is already sinless. Not!!!

 

[At Peace]

It is so nice to be so perfect, when ,categorically, the rest of us are not!

• I am not sure about this but, though many here feel you have the right to say what you say about yourself, I have seen no one that agrees with you. Does this mean you are going to heaven where the rest of us are not?
• James 1:5-6 ....note it says God gives freely to all, without finding fault. I wonder what it means "finding no fault" by God? Would "a fault" here be a sin? Just wondering!

God will not upbraid us for our lack of wisdom.
As God "heareth not sinners", (John 9:31), those in sin will receive nothing they ask for from God.
BTW, repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, can make you sin free too. (Rom 6:7)

 

[Curtis]

@At Peace
I will appose you at every turn on this forum because what you are teaching is not truth. If I did not care about you I would just hold my peace, and let you keep believing the things that are not true.
My hope is perhaps, God might give you repentance to the acknowledging of truth!

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Curtis]

As God "heareth not sinners", (John 9:31), those in sin will receive nothing they ask for from God.

If God does not hear sinners, then how can anyone get saved? It all depends on what is being prayed for.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God only hears the prayers of those things that are according to his will!!!

1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

 

[At Peace]

Let just pretend you really are sinless (Which you are not) lets just pretend you are. So, in the Church you go to you find a wife, and she to believes she is sinless. If both of you are sinless that would mean if you have children, your children would be 100% sinless!!! That has never happened in the history of the world. There has never been a sinless husband, and sinless wife that had sinless children...ever.

It is written..."And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." (1 Cor 7:13-14)
You need to rethink that POV.

The human body was NOT redeemed when a person is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, because it is still "corruptible". If the body was redeemed at salvation then it would be free of sin, which means it would never die.
1Cor 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
We are waiting to know the "redemption" of our bodies (Romans 8:23) The word, "redemption" means free of sin!!

You are right about the redemption of the vessel.
But the only "corruption" God's temple will see is old age, dimming eyes, and sprained ankles.etc.
Redemption doesn't mean free from sin.
Maybe you can supply the source of your information?

The Apostle Paul said.....
1Co 9:26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.
1Co 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (NIV)
Spiritual bodies that are incorruptible and immortal, do not need to be made a slave because it has no sin in it.

Correct.
And as long as we heed Paul's exhortation to keep the body in submission we too can keep resisting every temptation brought to beset us.

As Paul said......
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Though you won't listen to my testimony, perhaps you will heed Paul's.,

Mortal, corruptible bodies means they will die because of sin in them.

Mortal bodies will pass away, because they wear out.
The skin we, (the converted), abide in is not what we will dwell in in heaven.
But our minds are in charge of our skin on earth.
Don't cede control of your mind to your skin.
The mind runs the show, so to speak, so...which part of you "is in control" ?
The mind or the skin?

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. [/QUOTE]

 

[At Peace]

Wouldn't it be convenient if that was the only verse in the Bible? Or even 1st John. But it's not.
Still even in verse 9.
ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.
Total KJV occurrences: 576
"prolonged form of" the opposite of prolonged would be immediate.
Your definition is the opposite of the word "poieo". This is the King James definition by the way.
Also, I would mention that NO ONE in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately upon
salvation. John the Baptist had it from the womb. Possibly Jesus also. But no one else in the NT.
Did Jesus have it before He was baptized? Hard to say, it's possible.
But all 5 instances in Acts were some period of time after they became believers.

If all your study has led you to believe that evil fruit CAN come from the seed of God...you flunked out.
That is what you are trying to prove, isn't it?

"...for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.".
That is what you are trying to disprove.

 

[At Peace]

Being aware of our sins is very important. God does not answer the prayers of sinners John 9:31. This applies fully to the unsaved but is also something the saved need to be aware of.

But, there is a bigger issue at hand. Much bigger then our sinless perfection. It is our love. God's perfection is judged according to His love as God is love 1 John 4:8.

We can achieve sinless perfection, but if we have not got love, we have.......nothing 1 Cor 13:2.

That is correct.
No sin manifests love.

 

[At Peace]

Sin is totally undetectable as it dwells in the flesh of man in a "dormant" state until the Word of God exposes it in man. This is why the "law" was given so sin in man would go from being dormant in man to coming alive.
The Apostle Paul said that as far as he knew he thought he was alive at one time until the law came, and sin in him came alive, and kill him!
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Paul said, ".....sin revived...." The word "revived" means, "to resuscitate, to rise from the dead"!!
Sin is the transgression of the law, the strength of sin is the law!! (1 Cor 15:56) There is no way sin can ever be made to not exist!! As long as the Word of God exists, which is forever, the possibilities of transgressing the Word will always exist, which means sin will always exist. I know this because all who have transgressed the laws of God, and have never made Jesus Christ their Lord so as to remove their sins will be cast into the lake of fire. They will always exist along with their sins in the lake of fire. Sin can not be killed, only contained, and or suppressed within the flesh of man,

the physical body must be replaced with another body that is not contaminated with sin. .

What on earth do you think rebirth is?
The death and burial of the old man/body of sin and our resurrection with Christ to walk in newness of life!!!!! {Rom 6:3-6)
Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"WE" are dead and gone.
Christ lives in us now.
We have His mind, and with it we control the "skin".

 

[At Peace]

Then you do not need a new body as yours is already sinless. Not!!!

"My" life is "hid with Christ in God'. {Col 3:3)
The vessel on earth now is God's temple.
It is undefiled...thanks be to God.

I pray that someday you will be able to rejoice with me in that truth.

 

[At Peace]

If God does not hear sinners, then how can anyone get saved?

They quit committing sin, that is what repentance from sin is.
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)