So tired of all the ignorant bashing of Catholics

[th1bill]

It seems that every once in a while, someone takes a bash at Catholics on this site.

I am so tired of ignorant people typing ignorant statements on topics they are completely clueless on. Every person and every belief deserve a proper and sound judgment.

Properly judging matters is evidence of being a Christian.

1 Cor 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints.
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things.
John 7:24 judge with righteous judgment.

If you make incriminating accusations about a person or a religion, you need to as a Christian A. be 100% certain that you have first properly considered all there is to consider / properly judged the matter and can support your statement. B. Ensure the accusation is on an issue that is material. No Rom 14:5 'type' disagreements need to be heated or carry insulting language.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Most of the disagreements Protestants have with Catholics are immaterial matters. They can tick the box of being Rom 14:5 non-issues.

I will be posting Catholic bashing posts in this thread, and we can all take a stab at getting the facts right.

All Catholics, irrespective of their differing traditions, are Christians who love and serve Jesus.

As a Christian attending a Baptist Fellowship, I find people in other Church Congregations rude also, generally Catholic. My Catholic friends and I are primarily Christians but that is not true of everyone.

 

[Dave M]

God's omniscience and the existence of true free will is a probably one of the hardest points to convince someone of.

It will derail this thread. When I have time, I will copy your post to the free will thread i have already created and we can discuss there.

Understand that neither of us are wanting to incriminate God. You teach free will whilst God is omniscient, that is good. I teach free will with God needing to limit His omniscience. There is only a problem, when someone does not support true free will. As scripture is crystal clear that we all have true free will!

My friend, faith is believing in God, yet not fully understanding everything !! as a men people of the flesh we want to know everything and if we don't understand it in our mind we may lack belief in it.

I am referring to God knowing all ree this makes him God, he knew who was going to choose and walk with him before we even do, he know all things.

Yet we still have free will, it makes no sense from a flesh point of view, but God is way more then we can fully understand while in these bodies.

No wear in the scripture does God word suggest that he limits himself that I am aware of. Why would he need to do that?? He is God,

We do agree on free will !

 

[Dave M]

mean you could make the argument knowing that God knows everything, that God is a sadist because he creates and already knows that they're going to fall. So they're those that are going to fall are going to go to hell and he already knows that, correct. So why should we worship a god that is a sadist?

well the mere suggestion of that is very troublesome, be careful

Scripture tells us that God knows everything. And that God is nothing but love. So how can he create something that he knows is going to fail if he is nothing but love?

I agree God knows everything, my spirit in my testifies to that. God is Love , but he is also a just God to those who will not repent, God cursed this world, and the word of God full explains we it is a battle between good and evil, God is so loving he lets people live hoping they repent giving them may chances.

I would say that Lucifer had a similar false premise like Judas and so many others who felt comfortable being in the position of being saved. Like Jesus said, to the disciples your names are written in heaven. Evidently Judas Iscariot got too comfortable for himself feeling he's not going to fall. God is love why would he worry about failure if his name is already written in heaven. So he can do whatever he wants now like so many Christians out there that feel that once they're saved they're always saved so they can do whatever they want no matter what they want. And this is where the false premise comes in, the whole concept that you know what I'm saved I don't have to worry about a damn thing. I don't have to worry about Sin that's all covered I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior I don't have to do another thing I can do whatever I want.

interesting take on it, and I lean towards one can loose salvation, more then I do about osas so we agree on that. But I do not think Judas was ever saved, his testimony in the gospel, shows he was stealing from the Treasury the whole time !! that is not the fruit of a saved man. Jesus chose him to fulfill scripture that was written about his betrayal in the OT. Just because your name is written in heaven, does it mean you are saved?? it does not say his name was written in the book of life. Those that die in the second death have there names written in a book as well and that blood is in heaven, yet we know they are going to hell. so I just don't agree Judas was ever saved, but I do agree one can walk away and loose salvation.

David this is a very same concept that Christians are going to have when it comes to the mark of the beast. They are going to think that you know what our poop doesn't stink. I can do whatever I want I'm a born again Christian. And they're going to shout it from the rooftops I can do whatever the heck I want it doesn't matter what it says in the scripture because guess what I'm a Christian I'm born again I'm saved.

I end to agree with this, but I doubt they will be shouting from the roof tops LOL they will be cowardly hiding ha ha.

It was Judas who chose to do what he did and betrayed Jesus. It had nothing to do with God. God did not make Judas betray his son. God knew what Judas was going to do, because God is divine. Again I say that is part of the mystery of God. But God did not create Judas to become evil. Judas became evil on his own

So again Christians who accept Jesus as Lord and savior, can fall from Heaven. Just like Judas. Just like Lucifer if you want to look at it that way cuz Lucifer had everything he was with God For Heaven's Sake. And he threw it all away over pride.

Christians during the time of the mark of the beast are going to accept the mark feeling that they are above everyone else. When so clearly it states in the scripture that those who take the mark of the beast condemn themselves.

And that sin, taking the mark of the beast, is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

I tend to agree with this, but God can and does use people that are not saved I believe, For his purpose.

We are on the same page about Luke warm Christians for sure!

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
Rev 3:15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:22 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

Note, that this letter was written to the church. A body of believers. Christians. ( as were all seven churches in Revelation )
These people were already in Christ ( in His mouth to be more specific ) and if they don't repent ( get hot or cold ) He is going
to spit them out.

 

[Bill]

well the mere suggestion of that is very troublesome, be careful



I agree God knows everything, my spirit in my testifies to that. God is Love , but he is also a just God to those who will not repent, God cursed this world, and the word of God full explains we it is a battle between good and evil, God is so loving he lets people live hoping they repent giving them may chances.


interesting take on it, and I lean towards one can loose salvation, more then I do about osas so we agree on that. But I do not think Judas was ever saved, his testimony in the gospel, shows he was stealing from the Treasury the whole time !! that is not the fruit of a saved man. Jesus chose him to fulfill scripture that was written about his betrayal in the OT. Just because your name is written in heaven, does it mean you are saved?? it does not say his name was written in the book of life. Those that die in the second death have there names written in a book as well and that blood is in heaven, yet we know they are going to hell. so I just don't agree Judas was ever saved, but I do agree one can walk away and loose salvation.



I end to agree with this, but I doubt they will be shouting from the roof tops LOL they will be cowardly hiding ha ha.



I tend to agree with this, but God can and does use people that are not saved I believe, For his purpose.

We are on the same page about Luke warm Christians for sure!

If Christians today do not understand about how it can be , that God creates, expecting to see the best of us. And becomes angry seeing how evil people can get. All they have to do is read what takes place before Noah and the Ark

 

[joestue]

They are given power to cast out demons, but God does not know them Matt 7:22-23

It is not necessary to invent a third class of secondary citizens who have power to cast out demons, yet somehow they don't know God and will go to hell because they are not born again or don't believe.

There's two things that are happening here that are far simpler explanations:
those arriving at the judgement seat are self decieved. they thought they cast out demons, they thought they healed people. they didn't.

Or they did know Jesus, but fell away later and turned against God, such as Judas and possibly others such as the first king saul.

most christians it seems tend to invent theology around Jesus statement "i never knew you" to mean once saved always saved.
where in the bible does it say Jesus will say those words to every single person? if you believe osas, then sure. but to believe you cannot fall away having known God makes those warnings in Hebrews moot.


so anyhow.. i will say.. there do appear to be deliverance ministers who are "respected" by demons. and you can get temporary deliverance from them. i will also note i have sensed demons in other deliverance ministers, and those spirits cause them to oppose me.

in one real life situation.. a man i have met, worked with another deliverance minister at a church i had a prior "bad feeling about" years prior.

the man that i met is going through divorce. his wife had a demon, and over several years it destroyed their marriage.. when he tried to get his friend to help him with casting it out he said to him "oh i know she has a demon, i saw it before i introduced her to you"

so yeah.. things like that happen. those men are not unsaved, but the one of them caused his brother to stumble by something similar to what baalam did to the israelites. i don't know that this sin is going to result in the loss of his salvation, but it could, and its not my problem.

 

[Rhema]

There's two things that are happening here that are far simpler explanations:
those arriving at the judgement seat are self decieved. they thought they cast out demons, they thought they healed people. they didn't.

Or they did know Jesus, but fell away later and turned against God, such as Judas and possibly others such as the first king saul.

There is a third option.

The casting out is by the name of Jesus, not in the name of the believer. The universe may just be responding to the power in the name of Jesus, regardless of the status of his or her salvation.

Just a thought.
Rhema

 

[joestue]

The universe may just be responding to the power in the name of Jesus

And laughed out loud at the seven sons of sceva

 

[KingJ]

It is not necessary to invent a third class of secondary citizens who have power to cast out demons, yet somehow they don't know God and will go to hell because they are not born again or don't believe.

There's two things that are happening here that are far simpler explanations:
those arriving at the judgement seat are self decieved. they thought they cast out demons, they thought they healed people. they didn't.

Or they did know Jesus, but fell away later and turned against God, such as Judas and possibly others such as the first king saul.

most christians it seems tend to invent theology around Jesus statement "i never knew you" to mean once saved always saved.
where in the bible does it say Jesus will say those words to every single person? if you believe osas, then sure. but to believe you cannot fall away having known God makes those warnings in Hebrews moot.


so anyhow.. i will say.. there do appear to be deliverance ministers who are "respected" by demons. and you can get temporary deliverance from them. i will also note i have sensed demons in other deliverance ministers, and those spirits cause them to oppose me.

in one real life situation.. a man i have met, worked with another deliverance minister at a church i had a prior "bad feeling about" years prior.

the man that i met is going through divorce. his wife had a demon, and over several years it destroyed their marriage.. when he tried to get his friend to help him with casting it out he said to him "oh i know she has a demon, i saw it before i introduced her to you"

so yeah.. things like that happen. those men are not unsaved, but the one of them caused his brother to stumble by something similar to what baalam did to the israelites. i don't know that this sin is going to result in the loss of his salvation, but it could, and its not my problem.

Some good thoughts, thanks for sharing.

I believe in OSAS because I believe God is not an idiot that does not properly vet people before making them new creations 2 Cor 5:17.

But, having said that, I have not got much against anti-OSAS believers. We both believe we need to daily work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. If OSAS is true, it is not from our perspective. Only God's. We can think we are saved when we are not. This makes OSAS verse anti-OSAS a Rom 14:5 type disagreement.

Demonology is interesting. I think they all need to listen to whomever quotes the name of Jesus.

 

[Bill]

It is not necessary to invent a third class of secondary citizens who have power to cast out demons, yet somehow they don't know God and will go to hell because they are not born again or don't believe.

There's two things that are happening here that are far simpler explanations:
those arriving at the judgement seat are self decieved. they thought they cast out demons, they thought they healed people. they didn't.

Or they did know Jesus, but fell away later and turned against God, such as Judas and possibly others such as the first king saul.

most christians it seems tend to invent theology around Jesus statement "i never knew you" to mean once saved always saved.
where in the bible does it say Jesus will say those words to every single person? if you believe osas, then sure. but to believe you cannot fall away having known God makes those warnings in Hebrews moot.


so anyhow.. i will say.. there do appear to be deliverance ministers who are "respected" by demons. and you can get temporary deliverance from them. i will also note i have sensed demons in other deliverance ministers, and those spirits cause them to oppose me.

in one real life situation.. a man i have met, worked with another deliverance minister at a church i had a prior "bad feeling about" years prior.

the man that i met is going through divorce. his wife had a demon, and over several years it destroyed their marriage.. when he tried to get his friend to help him with casting it out he said to him "oh i know she has a demon, i saw it before i introduced her to you"

so yeah.. things like that happen. those men are not unsaved, but the one of them caused his brother to stumble by something similar to what baalam did to the israelites. i don't know that this sin is going to result in the loss of his salvation, but it could, and its not my problem.

Not going to presuppose. The scripture is written in that way for a reason, the man states he cast out demons in Gods name. We have to believe this is the truth, as all scripture is truth. The man claimed to cast out demons and heal people. And we already know, as Jesus tells us, demons can not be cast out with the devils authority. And humans can not cast out demons with thier own authority. So the bottom line is, the man cast out demons in God's authority.

So either the scripture is flawed or your understanding is flawed. What do you think?

 

[joestue]

The man claimed to cast out demons and heal people

claimed to do so does not make factual reality just because its in the bible.

 

[Bill]

claimed to do so does not make factual reality just because its in the bible.

Based on your words, then i guess we do not need to believe in Jesus either.

If you accept the Word as absolute truth, then it is all truth. But when you start taking bits and pieces as false, then there is no truth.

 

[Rhema]

If you accept the Word as absolute truth, then it is all truth. But when you start taking bits and pieces as false, then there is no truth.

Well that's not true.

 

[Bill]

Well that's not true.

I am afraid it is.

If you teach that the scripture is false, then you teach what God says is false

 

[Rhema]

I am afraid it is.

If you teach that the scripture is false, then you teach what God says is false

Well Bill, since you are Catholic, you mostly certainly hold to a different paradigm with regards to Ecclesiastical Authority than do I.

And while this is not the thread to continue on with such discussion, I will leave you with a scripture verse that perhaps could help explain how I see things. (And I'll even use the Douay-Rheims for you.)

How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pens of the scribes hath wrought falsehood.​

(Jeremiah 8:8 DRB)

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[joestue]

Based on your words, then i guess we do not need to believe in Jesus either.

If you accept the Word as absolute truth, then it is all truth. But when you start taking bits and pieces as false, then there is no truth.

That's not how logic works.

 

[Rhema]

That's not how logic works.

It's also not how evidence works, but I would think that an impasse has been reached.

 

[joestue]

Indeed the lying pens of the scribes hath wrought falsehood

Some say this extends into the majority of the laws requiring animal sacrifices, as it was never possible for the blood of sheep and goats to take away sin.

But it took the sacrifice of Gods own son before mankind understood that, and many still dont.

 

[Bill]

Well Bill, since you are Catholic, you mostly certainly hold to a different paradigm with regards to Ecclesiastical Authority than do I.

And while this is not the thread to continue on with such discussion, I will leave you with a scripture verse that perhaps could help explain how I see things. (And I'll even use the Douay-Rheims for you.)

How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pens of the scribes hath wrought falsehood.​

(Jeremiah 8:8 DRB)

Kindly,

 

[Bill]

Well Bill, since you are Catholic, you mostly certainly hold to a different paradigm with regards to Ecclesiastical Authority than do I.

And while this is not the thread to continue on with such discussion, I will leave you with a scripture verse that perhaps could help explain how I see things. (And I'll even use the Douay-Rheims for you.)

How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pens of the scribes hath wrought falsehood.​

(Jeremiah 8:8 DRB)

Kindly,
Rhema

Tell us , is the scripture the Word of God?