Talk Jesus Statement of Faith

[Charlie24]

That is good except there will be a time when He ceases His role as Son and resume His role as the Eternal Spirit of God.

After Satan is cast into the lake of fire and all sin is judged at the last judgment (Revelation 20), there will be no further need for the Son to exercise the throne of power. Jesus Christ will cease acting in His Sonship role and will be God forever.

Does this mean that God will cease using the resurrected and glorified body of Christ? We believe that Jesus will continue to use His glorified body throughout eternity. This is indicated by Revelation 22:3-4, which describes a visible God even after the last judgment and after the creation of the new heaven and earth: “And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”

Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.

Nowhere in Scripture are we told or is it even suggested that the Father/Son relationship comes to an end.

In Hebrews 1:8 God the Father calls the Son God, and tells Him his throne is forever.

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Christ will rule the world forever in the Kingdom the Father has given Him.

 

[Curtis]

Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.

Everyone reading this "garbage" (doctrine of demons) should be keenly aware that those who do not believe Jesus Christ to be the eternal God can not be saved as Jesus said.....

John 8:24 That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.”

Any belief system that does not believe that Jesus is eternally God is antichrist and demonic!

 

[Butch5]

The author of Hebrews is proving the priesthood of Christ is superior to the Levitical priesthood of Aaron.

He uses Melchizedek as a type of Christ.

"No mother of father" does not mean Melchizedek didn't have a mother or father. It means there was no record made at that time of his mother and father.

This is significant because in order to be a priest of the Levitical order, one must have record of their ancestry to prove they were from the family of Aaron, the tribe of Levi. Melchizedek had no such records but was respected by Israel's father Abraham by giving 1/10th of all he had.

Then the author goes on to say how great Melchizedek was, using him as a type of Christ and superior to the Levitical priesthood.

The purpose was to prove to the Hebrews that Jesus Christ is the Great High Priest.

Your assessment sounds fair. However, I believe if we're going to apply one part of the passage we can't simply ignore the part that doesn't fit what we believe.

 

[Charlie24]

Your assessment sounds fair. However, I believe if we're going to apply one part of the passage we can't simply ignore the part that doesn't fit what we believe.

I'm not sure what you believe or what I've ignored.

I will address it, if I know what it is.

 

[Butch5]

This is the creed I do know. It has been around since at least the 3rd century and it hasn't changed.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agreed! The Nicene Creed is the creed most claim to hold to even thought they don't. You said it hasn't changed but the Athanasian Creed also speaks of the relation between the Father and the Son and it is vastly different from the Nicene Creed. Again, that's my point. The doctrine has changed over the years. It's evolved and still is. In the Nicene Creed it says that Jesus is true God out of true God. They acknowledged two separate beings. One came out of the other. That's why the Father is called the Unbegotten God and the Son the Begotten God. Two different beings. By the 5th century and the Athanasian Creed we have one being somehow consisting of three different, coequal, coeternal, beings. Then to today and the links you posted with three persons as one God in a hierarchy. It's changed drastically

 

[Butch5]

I'm not sure what you believe or what I've ignored.

I will address it, if I know what it is.

I didn't mean you ignored anything. Curtis quoted the passage and highlighted 'without beginning and without end.' My point was that the same passage, speaking of the same individual, also said he was without father and mother. My point was that we can't claim the without beginning or end part and ignore the part about without father and mother.

 

[First and the Last]

Nowhere in Scripture are we told or is it even suggested that the Father/Son relationship comes to an end.

In Hebrews 1:8 God the Father calls the Son God, and tells Him his throne is forever.

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Christ will rule the world forever in the Kingdom the Father has given Him.

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever. . . . God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” The first portion of the above passage clearly refers to the deity in the Son, while the second portion refers to the humanity of the Son. The writer of Hebrews quoted a prophetic passage in Psalm 45:6-7. This is not a conversation in the Godhead but a prophetic utterance inspired by God and looking to the future incarnation of God in flesh. God was speaking prophetically through the psalmist to describe Himself in a future role.

The term “Son of God” refers to the Incarnation, or the manifestation of God in flesh. God planned the Son before the world began, but the Son did not come into actual, substantial existence until the fullness of time. The Son had a beginning, for the Spirit of God begat (caused the conception of) the Son in the womb of Mary. The Son’s reign will have an ending, for when the church is presented to God and when Satan and sin and death are finally judged and subdued, the role of the Son will cease. The Son fills many roles that in the plan of God could only be fulfilled by a sinless human being. Of course, the ultimate purpose of the Son is to provide the means of salvation for fallen humanity.

Three things about the use of the term “Son of God.” (1) We cannot use it apart from the humanity of Christ, for the phrase always refers to the flesh or to the Spirit of God in flesh. (2) Son is always used with reference to time, for the Sonship had a beginning and will have an ending. (3) As God, Jesus had all power, but as the Son He was limited in power. Jesus was both God and man.

The biblical doctrine of the Son is a wonderful and beautiful truth. It presents some complex ideas primarily because it is difficult for the human mind to comprehend a being with both a human nature and the divine nature. Yet through the Son, God vividly presented His character to humanity, particularly His matchless love.

 

[Charlie24]

I didn't mean you ignored anything. Curtis quoted the passage and highlighted 'without beginning and without end.' My point was that the same passage, speaking of the same individual, also said he was without father and mother. My point was that we can't claim the without beginning or end part and ignore the part about without father and mother.

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever. . . . God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” The first portion of the above passage clearly refers to the deity in the Son, while the second portion refers to the humanity of the Son. The writer of Hebrews quoted a prophetic passage in Psalm 45:6-7. This is not a conversation in the Godhead but a prophetic utterance inspired by God and looking to the future incarnation of God in flesh. God was speaking prophetically through the psalmist to describe Himself in a future role.

The term “Son of God” refers to the Incarnation, or the manifestation of God in flesh. God planned the Son before the world began, but the Son did not come into actual, substantial existence until the fullness of time. The Son had a beginning, for the Spirit of God begat (caused the conception of) the Son in the womb of Mary. The Son’s reign will have an ending, for when the church is presented to God and when Satan and sin and death are finally judged and subdued, the role of the Son will cease. The Son fills many roles that in the plan of God could only be fulfilled by a sinless human being. Of course, the ultimate purpose of the Son is to provide the means of salvation for fallen humanity.

Three things about the use of the term “Son of God.” (1) We cannot use it apart from the humanity of Christ, for the phrase always refers to the flesh or to the Spirit of God in flesh. (2) Son is always used with reference to time, for the Sonship had a beginning and will have an ending. (3) As God, Jesus had all power, but as the Son He was limited in power. Jesus was both God and man.

The biblical doctrine of the Son is a wonderful and beautiful truth. It presents some complex ideas primarily because it is difficult for the human mind to comprehend a being with both a human nature and the divine nature. Yet through the Son, God vividly presented His character to humanity, particularly His matchless love.

If you want it to be an utterance of sorts, let it be so. The bottom line is that the Son is still the Son in reference when He takes the throne.

There is no end to the Father/Son relationship, and you're not going to find it in Scripture.

 

[First and the Last]

Everyone reading this "garbage" (doctrine of demons) should be keenly aware that those who do not believe Jesus Christ to be the eternal God can not be saved as Jesus said.....

John 8:24 That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.”

Any belief system that does not believe that Jesus is eternally God is antichrist and demonic!

Let me be absolutely clear -- I believe Jesus Christ is God eternally. The issue I am having is that many think God's role as Son is eternal from past to future.​

That role of Son had a beginning and in a sense will have an ending according to Scripture.

1 Corinthians Chapter 15​

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.

In this passage, Paul describes the ultimate submission of the Son (Jesus Christ) to the Father after the completion of his redemptive work, culminating in the final defeat of death and all opposing forces. This submission is part of the divine plan for bringing about the final realization of God's sovereign rule over all creation.

It is true that we cannot comprehend fully how the miraculous conception—the union of God and man—took place in the womb of Mary, but we can accept it by faith. In fact, if we do not believe that Jesus is come in the flesh we have an antichrist spirit (II John 7), but if we do accept this doctrine of Christ we will have both the Father and the Son (II John 9). Both Father and Son are revealed in Christ (John 10:30; 14:6-11).

 

[Curtis]

Let me be absolutely clear -- I believe Jesus Christ is God eternally. The issue I am having is that many think God's role as Son is eternal from past to future.

This right here is false teaching!! Jesus Christ has been and will always be the eternal Son of God from eternity past to the eternal Son of God future.
Anything less comes from the spirit of the antichrist!!! Jesus Christ did not become God he has always been God!

 

[Curtis]

Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.

Jesus will be subject to his Father as it has always been except during the Church age where Jesus right now has all authority in Heaven and earth, But the Son of God never ceases from being the Son of God throughout all eternity! If sonship ends that would mean Jesus was never God which means God the Father was never God or the Holy Spirit.

 

[First and the Last]

This right here is false teaching!! Jesus Christ has been and will always be the eternal Son of God from eternity past to the eternal Son of God future.
Anything less comes from the spirit of the antichrist!!! Jesus Christ did not become God he has always been God!

Again Let me be absolutely clear -- I believe Jesus Christ is God eternally. Hopefully we all believe that God robed Himself in flesh as Jesus Christ. That is absolutely necessary for this discussion. God's role as Son had a beginning in Bethlehem. And one day when all is judged and all enemies are subdued there will be no longer a need for God's role as Son. He (the eternal spirit of God) will be and always Has been God,

 

[First and the Last]

Jesus will be subject to his Father as it has always been except during the Church age where Jesus right now has all authority in Heaven and earth, But the Son of God never ceases from being the Son of God throughout all eternity! If sonship ends that would mean Jesus was never God which means God the Father was never God or the Holy Spirit.

Giving up the role as Son and becoming Fully God. 1 Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The subjection of the Son to the Father at the end of time is seen as the culmination of God's redemptive work through the human manifestation of Jesus Christ. This subjection signifies the completion of Jesus' mission in his role as the Son (the incarnate manifestation) and the final unification of all things under the sovereign rule of God.

"that God may be all in all" signifies the ultimate realization of God's sovereignty and presence in every aspect of creation, with no distinction between the Father and the Son in the eternal state. Once the redemptive work is completed, the human role of the Son (Jesus as the mediator and redeemer) is no longer necessary, as God's direct rule and presence are fully established.

The "Son" refers to the role God took on in the incarnation (Jesus Christ) to accomplish the work of salvation. This role is temporary and functional, serving the purpose of redemption. The subjection of the Son to the Father is the conclusion of this redemptive role, leading to the full revelation and acknowledgment of God's sovereignty.

 

[Curtis]

God's role as Son had a beginning in Bethlehem.

The Son of God did not have a beginning. The child that was born unto Mary was the Son of God only because "the Son of God" was in him!!
I am a son of God only because the Son of God lives in me!

 

[Charlie24]

Giving up the role as Son and becoming Fully God. 1 Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The subjection of the Son to the Father at the end of time is seen as the culmination of God's redemptive work through the human manifestation of Jesus Christ. This subjection signifies the completion of Jesus' mission in his role as the Son (the incarnate manifestation) and the final unification of all things under the sovereign rule of God.

"that God may be all in all" signifies the ultimate realization of God's sovereignty and presence in every aspect of creation, with no distinction between the Father and the Son in the eternal state. Once the redemptive work is completed, the human role of the Son (Jesus as the mediator and redeemer) is no longer necessary, as God's direct rule and presence are fully established.

The "Son" refers to the role God took on in the incarnation (Jesus Christ) to accomplish the work of salvation. This role is temporary and functional, serving the purpose of redemption. The subjection of the Son to the Father is the conclusion of this redemptive role, leading to the full revelation and acknowledgment of God's sovereignty.

What you have concluded is an opinion, it's not based on Biblical facts. You can say it but can't prove it.

Rev. 21:7
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

If we who are in Christ are the Father's sons/daughters then the only begotten Son of God will surly still be the Son.

You're running with false doctrine, First and the Last.

 

[First and the Last]

What you have concluded is an opinion, it's not based on Biblical facts. You can say it but can't prove it.

Rev. 21:7
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

If we who are in Christ are the Father's sons/daughters then the only begotten Son of God will surly still be the Son.

You're running with false doctrine, First and the Last.

let's take this one step at a time. Do you believe God is Omniscient and Omnipresent?

 

[Curtis]

Once the redemptive work is completed, the human role of the Son (Jesus as the mediator and redeemer) is no longer necessary,

The human role for Jesus is never over as he will be forever in his Glorified human body as an eternal High priest and King along with all his saints who also were made to be kings and priests with him. The Son never stops being the Son of God because he is God! Jesus will rule forever on his throne in the Kingdom of His Father.

Rev 1:6 He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Heb 7:21 but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, “The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: ‘You are a priest forever.’”

How long is forever? Eternity

 

[Charlie24]

let's take this one step at a time. Do you believe God is Omniscient and Omnipresent?

I know the Scripture well enough to know you have no Biblical support for your claim.

Human reasoning will get you nowhere but neck deep in false doctrine.

 

[First and the Last]

The human role for Jesus is never over as he will be forever in his Glorified human body as an eternal High priest and King along with all his saints who also were made to be kings and priests with him. The Son never stops being the Son of God because he is God! Jesus will rule forever on his throne in the Kingdom of His Father.

Rev 1:6 He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Heb 7:21 but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, “The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: ‘You are a priest forever.’”

How long is forever? Eternity

Jesus retains His glorified human body and serves eternally as High Priest and King (Hebrews 7:21, Revelation 1:6). This role is understood to continue even in the eschatological future, demonstrating the permanent aspect of His redemptive work.

Jesus' Sonship refers primarily to the incarnation and redemptive mission of God manifesting in the flesh. The Sonship role is a specific function in the divine plan not an eternal distinction within the Godhead.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 describes the subjection of the Son to the Father after the completion of the redemptive work. This signifies the fulfillment and completion of Jesus' mission as the incarnate Son. In this context, "the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all" means the completion of Jesus' mediatorial work and the full realization of God's sovereign rule.

Although the specific redemptive role of the Son is fulfilled, Jesus' glorified human role as High Priest and King continues eternally. This eternal role is seen as part of God's plan to maintain the connection with redeemed humanity. This does not imply a separate divine person but rather the ongoing manifestation of God's glory through the glorified humanity of Jesus.

The distinction between Father and Son is a matter of the divine plan and manifestation, not a division within God's essence. After the completion of the redemptive work, the Son's functional role in redemption ceases, but Jesus remains the glorified human manifestation of the one God, continuing to fulfill roles such as High Priest and King.

 

[First and the Last]

I know the Scripture well enough to know you have no Biblical support for your claim.

Human reasoning will get you nowhere but neck deep in false doctrine.

Not even close to answering my question. I'm trying to be sincere not a jokester.