The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

[Rhema]

Not sure who you are talking about there.

My entire post was to GodB4Us.

You don't know for sure which James wrote James.

I find the tradition regarding the authorship of James to be quite convincing.

James, brother of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for the writing of James in the Bible...he does not say anything different than what Paul preached. You will have to show where so that we can discuss it.

I shall decline the confrontation, but thanks.

He defended himself. There is nothing wrong with that.

It's obvious that a significant (a very significant) portion of the church did not agree or hold that Paul was an apostle, or there would have been no reason for him to "defend" it.
But again, I shall decline the confrontation.

The only time Peter and a James were not on the same page, is when PETER ACTED OUT OF LINE with the truth in fear of the Jews.

I would refer you to the difference of opinion between the two in Acts 15.

What? What makes you say that? Give the scripture/s and explanation.

(Acts 9:26-28 KJV) And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.​

​

(Galatians 1:15-19 KJV) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.​

Now I posted the information you requested, but this specific topic is off OP, so I shall not reply to this matter any further here. (Maybe in a new thread, though...)

That is a cop out.

My apologies that you felt offended.

It is strange that so many people go against that.

Before your arrival, there were many who voiced objection to this:

(Matthew 28:18 KJV) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

Go figure,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

stop applying His words in according to your belief

That is beyond "pot and kettle." Seriously.

Rhema

 

[Garee]

@Garee and @GodB4Us

Romans 4:11

And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.



Circumcision in the flesh was a sign of righteousness.

Circumcision was a sign or a shadow represented by the veil . It represent the foreskin of the Son of man or flesh . Jesus said his flesh profits for nothing.

 

[Garee]

@Garee and @GodB4Us

Romans 4:11

And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.



Circumcision in the flesh was a sign of righteousness.

Yes, the sign of our bloody husband Christ working in the Son of man, Jesus . The veil of the holy of holies representing the foreskin of the Son of man . When Jesus said "it is finished" it was rent from the top to the bottom. .. there was n o Jewish King sitting there . Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the word that God was a Jewish man .

 

[Garee]

I find the tradition regarding the authorship of James to be quite convincing.

I would agree one author of the Bible. he whois not a man sets the cannon just as he sets one words of it. In part and the whole

Not by the will of James, Paul, Mathew, Mary, Abel, Moses or Jesus the Son of man .

Revelation is still the last chapter. still declaring the warning not to add or subtract from the whole

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

We do not wrestles against the flesh and blood of those he empowers and sends with his gospel Its not the gospel of men.

 

[God's Truth]

My entire post was to GodB4Us.
I find the tradition regarding the authorship of James to be quite convincing.

James, brother of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However, everything said in the letter from James is truth. So what difference does it make which of the three James wrote it?

I shall decline the confrontation, but thanks.

Confrontation? That is what this site is all about. Why not discuss and debate that topic?

It's obvious that a significant (a very significant) portion of the church did not agree or hold that Paul was an apostle, or there would have been no reason for him to "defend" it.
But again, I shall decline the confrontation.

Kind of ironic that you say you shall decline confrontation, but you are confronting me about Paul whom you confront, and, this is a debate site after all.
Let's discuss it.

So what if people falsely accused Paul and he defended himself? It is to his credit and their discredit. Paul is just misunderstood.

I would refer you to the difference of opinion between the two in Acts 15.

(Acts 9:26-28 KJV) And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.​

They were afraid of Paul because he used to have people dragged out of their homes and put in prison. Of course they would question and wonder if he was just acting like an apostles just so he could trick them and have them arrested.
Jesus sent Paul far away to the Gentiles because of that.

​

(Galatians 1:15-19 KJV) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.​

Paul is explaining that he didn't go to Jerusalem first and learn about the gospel. Read it again and consider more carefully.

See here Paul says he went up AGAIN to Jerusalem.

Galatians 2:1Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

Now I posted the information you requested, but this specific topic is off OP, so I shall not reply to this matter any further here. (Maybe in a new thread, though...)

Proving Paul taught the truth has to do with this topic.

My apologies that you felt offended.
Before your arrival, there were many who voiced objection to this:

(Matthew 28:18 KJV) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

Go figure,
Rhema

I don't like to assume anything, so I will ask you to clarify.

 

[God's Truth]

Circumcision was a sign or a shadow represented by the veil . It represent the foreskin of the Son of man or flesh . Jesus said his flesh profits for nothing.

JESUS SAID LITERALLY EATING HIS FLESH would do nothing for them BUT THAT to EAT HIS FLESH MEANS TO OBEY HIS WORDS.

Man you say the same false thing repeatedly without considering what someone tells you with scripture. The flesh does something, because Jesus died for us and shed his blood on the cross for us. What does nothing is to literally eat his flesh, for some of his disciples thought he meant to literally eat his flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, the sign of our bloody husband Christ working in the Son of man, Jesus . The veil of the holy of holies representing the foreskin of the Son of man . When Jesus said "it is finished" it was rent from the top to the bottom. .. there was n o Jewish King sitting there . Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the word that God was a Jewish man .

There really were curtains in the earthly temple.
The circumcision in the flesh didn't represent the curtain, as you say, that doesn't make sense. The circumcision in the flesh was a sign that a person was in a covenant with God and that they were considered clean and did the other purification works. The sign now is the Holy Spirit the saved are given.

 

[Rhema]

Confrontation? That is what this site is all about.

I believe the owner and moderators would disagree.

Thanks,
Rhema

See here Paul says he went up AGAIN to Jerusalem.

Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.​

...​

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.​

This epistle describes two trips. Don't confuse them. Acts 9 describes Paul's first trip right after he was saved. The accounts contradict one another. Acts states Paul went to Jerusalem, even using his Jewish name "Saul." Yet Galatians directly states that Paul did NOT go up to Jerusalem.

But you NEED them to say the same thing, and so you will embrace cognitive dissonance.

 

[Garee]

There really were curtains in the earthly temple.
The circumcision in the flesh didn't represent the curtain, as you say, that doesn't make sense. The circumcision in the flesh was a sign that a person was in a covenant with God and that they were considered clean and did the other purification works. The sign now is the Holy Spirit the saved are given.

It takes a little digging to understand the parable or it would seem that way.

Blood around the entrance way represented the vail of the holy of holies .The veil was also a picture of death whereby we enter the Presence of God.

The ceremonial law was set up with Moses using his second born Gershom to represent those born again the first born of God or from above . Moses second born Gershom is used like Isaac that Abraham second born on Mount Mariah the gospel in a parables.

The veil represented the foreskin of our bloody husband .When it was rent there was no Jewish king siting in the Holy of Holies . Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God was a Jewish man . The walls came tumbling down, a great tribulation unlike one ever before or ever again .the time of reformation had come

Exodus 4 :20-26 And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn. And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, (Gershom) and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son(Gershom) , and cast it at his (Gershom) feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him(Gershom) go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son. the second born God's first born

Israel the second born whose name was changed from deceiver (Jacob) to the born again name of the bride of Christ Israel .Christ the bloody husband because of the circumcision. using Zipporah as the priestess performing the ceremony the gospel picture. .Just as he used Abraham with Isaac and the lamb .Same gospel of our bloody husband . .

 

[God's Truth]

I believe the owner and moderators would disagree.

Thanks,
Rhema

I see what you mean, you mean because they won't like it if you speak against Paul?

Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.​

...​

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.​

This epistle describes two trips. Don't confuse them. Acts 9 describes Paul's first trip right after he was saved. The accounts contradict one another. Acts states Paul went to Jerusalem, even using his Jewish name "Saul." Yet Galatians directly states that Paul did NOT go up to Jerusalem.

But you NEED them to say the same thing, and so you will embrace cognitive dissonance.

I think it is like your confusion with Jesus eating the Passover meal. Just because Jesus went to prepare for the Passover, and then ate food, you think it means he ate the Passover dinner.

 

[God's Truth]

It takes a little digging to understand the parable or it would seem that way.

Blood around the entrance way represented the vail of the holy of holies .The veil was also a picture of death whereby we enter the Presence of God.

The ceremonial law was set up with Moses using his second born Gershom to represent those born again the first born of God or from above . Moses second born Gershom is used like Isaac that Abraham second born on Mount Mariah the gospel in a parables.

The veil represented the foreskin of our bloody husband .When it was rent there was no Jewish king siting in the Holy of Holies . Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God was a Jewish man . The walls came tumbling down, a great tribulation unlike one ever before or ever again .the time of reformation had come

Exodus 4 :20-26 And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn. And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, (Gershom) and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son(Gershom) , and cast it at his (Gershom) feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him(Gershom) go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son. the second born God's first born

Israel the second born whose name was changed from deceiver (Jacob) to the born again name of the bride of Christ Israel .Christ the bloody husband because of the circumcision. using Zipporah as the priestess performing the ceremony the gospel picture. .Just as he used Abraham with Isaac and the lamb .Same gospel of our bloody husband . .

Moses was called her husband of blood because when we marry we are one body with our spouse, and she was justifying being the one who gave their son the circumcision. God was going to kill Moses for not doing it.

Circumcision in the flesh does not represent the veil.

Circumcision is a sign of the covenant.

Genesis 17:11You are to circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this will be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.


The Holy Spirit is the sign for the saved now. We are circumcised in the Heart by the Holy Spirit, who is given to live in the heart of the saved.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[Garee]

Moses was called her husband of blood because when we marry we are one body with our spouse, and she was justifying being the one who gave their son the circumcision. God was going to kill Moses for not doing it.

Circumcision in the flesh does not represent the veil.

Circumcision is a sign of the covenant.

Genesis 17:11You are to circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this will be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.


The Holy Spirit is the sign for the saved now. We are circumcised in the Heart by the Holy Spirit, who is given to live in the heart of the saved.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I think yoked with Christ its not that hard to find the spiritual understanding in that parable . Zipporah , acting as a priestess an apostles sent by God to do the will of God. She performed the ceremony of circumcision which was in respect to the sufferings of Christ beforehand The glory came during the bloody demonstration at the cross

Zipporah cut off the foreskin of her son,(Gershom) and cast it at his (Gershom) feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou (Gershom) .Gershom a type of Jesus the Son of man

Twice in one verse to emphasize our bloody husband Christ. It testified beforehand of the sufferings of Christ our bloody husband , and the glory that should follow. When the veil representing the foreskin of the Son on man Jesus was rent from the top to the bottom to show it was inspired from heaven No Jewish king was siting in the Holy of Holies .

The abomination of desolation Kings in Israel. Satan could no longer deceive all the nations that God was a Jewish man as a King

Satan fell and is now bound from deceiving all the nations that God was a Jewish man as a King .The father of lies will be loosed for a short time at the end of the age when again men will seek after a fleshly Jewish. God

Exodus 4:25-26 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son( Gershom representing the sufferings of Jesus beforehand the Son of man the firstborn.), and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

The parable "bloody husband" in Exodus 4 is comparable to the parable with Abraham and Isaac on Mt Mariah both parables pointing ahead to the same glory of our bloody husband Christ ... the demonstration of the cross. .

They as us received the end of their new born again faith from the beginning . They by faith looked ahead we by the same faith look back to that glory..

In that way without parables Christ spoke not hiding the gospel understanding from those outside of the work of Christ's faith or called a labor of His love. .

1 Peter 1:9 -11Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ , (our bloody husband) which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, (our bloody husband) and the glory that should follow.

 

[God's Truth]

I think yoked with Christ its not that hard to find the spiritual understanding in that parable . Zipporah , acting as a priestess an apostles sent by God to do the will of God. She performed the ceremony of circumcision which was in respect to the sufferings of Christ beforehand The glory came during the bloody demonstration at the cross

Zipporah cut off the foreskin of her son,(Gershom) and cast it at his (Gershom) feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou (Gershom) .Gershom a type of Jesus the Son of man

Twice in one verse to emphasize our bloody husband Christ. It testified beforehand of the sufferings of Christ our bloody husband , and the glory that should follow. When the veil representing the foreskin of the Son on man Jesus was rent from the top to the bottom to show it was inspired from heaven No Jewish king was siting in the Holy of Holies .

The abomination of desolation Kings in Israel. Satan could no longer deceive all the nations that God was a Jewish man as a King

Satan fell and is now bound from deceiving all the nations that God was a Jewish man as a King .The father of lies will be loosed for a short time at the end of the age when again men will seek after a fleshly Jewish. God

Exodus 4:25-26 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son( Gershom representing the sufferings of Jesus beforehand the Son of man the firstborn.), and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

The parable "bloody husband" in Exodus 4 is comparable to the parable with Abraham and Isaac on Mt Mariah both parables pointing ahead to the same glory of our bloody husband Christ ... the demonstration of the cross. .

They as us received the end of their new born again faith from the beginning . They by faith looked ahead we by the same faith look back to that glory..

In that way without parables Christ spoke not hiding the gospel understanding from those outside of the work of Christ's faith or called a labor of His love. .

1 Peter 1:9 -11Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ , (our bloody husband) which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, (our bloody husband) and the glory that should follow.

You said, "Zipporah cut off the foreskin of her son,(Gershom) and cast it at his (Gershom) feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou (Gershom) .Gershom a type of Jesus the Son of man" and, "Exodus 4:25-26 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son( Gershom representing the sufferings of Jesus beforehand the Son of man the firstborn.), and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision."

The Bible doesn't say that. Zipporah cast it at Moses' feet.
Circumcision is now a type of Jesus to you? You said it was the veil before.

You haven't proven your beliefs with scripture to me.

 

[Rhema]

you think it means he ate the Passover dinner.

Did Jesus lie here?

(Matthew 26:18 KJV) And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.​

Did Jesus lie here?

(Mark 14:14 KJV) And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?​

And here?

(Luke 22:11 KJV) And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?​

What about here? Jesus lied?

(Luke 22:13-16 KJV) And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.​

Rhema

(It's easy to spot where the confusion lies...)

 

[God's Truth]

Did Jesus lie here?

(Matthew 26:18 KJV) And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.​

Did Jesus lie here?

(Mark 14:14 KJV) And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?​

And here?

(Luke 22:11 KJV) And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?​

What about here? Jesus lied?

(Luke 22:13-16 KJV) And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.​

Rhema

(It's easy to spot where the confusion lies...)

He was the Passover Lamb and didn't eat it, but had ate at the place that was prepared to eat it on the day of preparation. Read more carefully.

 

[Rhema]

Read more carefully.

I would suggest the same, as there is nothing within the Synoptic gospels that says he did not, yet the Greek grammar states that he had, meaning - your interpretation of scripture misleads.

So, read the Greek more carefully.

But I'm glad to see you admit that Jesus lied.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

He was the Passover Lamb

Where did Jesus say this?

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[God's Truth]

I would suggest the same, as there is nothing within the Synoptic gospels that says he did not, yet the Greek grammar states that he had, meaning - your interpretation of scripture misleads.

So, read the Greek more carefully.

But I'm glad to see you admit that Jesus lied.

Rhema

You bear false witness.
They prepared for the Passover on the preparation day and then ate dinner after preparing for a place to eat. Make a new thread on it.

 

[God's Truth]

Where did Jesus say this?

Thanks,
Rhema

1 Corinthians 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.