The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

[God's Truth]

(James 2:24 KJV) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

Right?!

 

[GodB4Us]

(James 2:24 KJV) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

James was only talking about how the church was applying faith in God to provide to the poor without leading by example in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide was dead in the eyes of the poor & will not profit the poor nor save the poor seeing how the church failed to lead by example by meeting their immediate needs of those about to perish form the elements and starvation.

To understand and keep in context of what that faith is that James is talking about, believers need to stop applying verse 17 out of context of verses 15-16 of what the actual faith James is talking about.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

As it is, there is no other gospel and for Paul to have the right hand of fellowship with James, then it means believers are misapplying the words of James wrong at the expense of the multitude of scripture that says how we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

By citing how Abraham was justified without works by having believed God, is how we are saved by our faith in Jesus Christ without works.

That is not to say we do not live a life of daily repentance when we do as His disciples by looking to Jesus Christ daily to helps us lay aside every weight & sin in going on to perfection, but God is able to save those who believe.

 

[God's Truth]

You added to the scripture by making it about circumcision again when it was about any work that Abraham had done.

The scriptures say it was about circumcision.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Pertaining to the circumcision of the flesh.

See also
Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

Romans 2:27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 3:1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.



IT IS ABOUT CIRCUMCISION of the FLESH.

How many times does Paul have to say it?

NOWHERE ANYWHERE does Paul say not of works and then rebukes people for obeying by stop sinning!!!!!

You have been ensnared!

 

[GodB4Us]

The scriptures say it was about circumcision.

Pertaining to the circumcision of the flesh.

See also
Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

Romans 2:27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 3:1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

@Rhema

You really believe "works" as in plural is only referring to circumcision? How many times did Abraham got circumcised? One time. So why plural for works? So more than about circumcision.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Not to mention how we are saved by not having done any work or working at all in verse 5, but of course we are to run that race for the high prize of our calling but we do so as saved believers, not for obtaining salvation.

 

[God's Truth]

You really believe "works" as in plural is only referring to circumcision? How many times did Abraham got circumcised? One time. So why plural for works? So more than about circumcision.

Circumcision is the sign in the flesh that one did the works of the law, which are the purification works.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Here are the works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Not to mention how we are saved by not having done any work or working at all in verse 5,

That is about the purification works.
Show where Paul EVER rebukes people for obeying by repenting of sins and doing right. It. is. always. about. circumcision. for. which. is. the sign. that. a person. did. the works of the law.

but of course we are to run that race for the high prize of our calling but we do so as saved believers, not for obtaining salvation.

If you don't repent of your sins, then you were saved. If you obey and are saved, but teach against obedience to Christ, then you are ensnared by Satan to preach falseness.

 

[Rhema]

You added to the scripture by making it about circumcision again

James was only talking about how the church was applying faith in God to provide to the poor without leading by example

Wow, talk about selective blindness. You just did the exact same thing that you charged @God's Truth with doing. And that would be playing with context.

Unfortunately, I have not found your skills in English adequate enough to be able to establish a reasonable context, though I acknowledge that you think you've done so. This presents me with a dilemma, in that it would seem you're not open to the possibility that you might be wrong.

The contention between James (the brother of Jesus) and Paul is quite evident to any reader who is not driven by a need to make things harmonious within the early church. Paul screamed bloody murder to be acknowledged as an apostle, since he was not.

Peter, Paul, and James were just not all on the same page.

Furthermore, the timelines in Acts and Galatians differ. But I'm not about to waste my time in a discussion when it's obvious that you've made up your mind.

@Rhema

Not to mention how we are saved by not having done any work or working at all in verse 5, but of course we are to run that race for the high prize of our calling but we do so as saved believers, not for obtaining salvation.

By all means, then, there's no need to repent. !!

Mercy me what shall I do ??
(GodB4Us says NOTHING !!)
Jesus tells me differently.

Thanks anyway,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Show where Paul EVER rebukes people for obeying by repenting of sins and doing right.

(Acts 13:38 KJV) Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

 

[Rhema]

If you don't repent of your sins, then you were saved.

Typo ??

 

[God's Truth]

Typo ??

Yeah that was a typo. Too bad we don't have more time to edit our posts. I figure though that people will see it when it is a typo, glad that you did.

 

[God's Truth]

(Acts 13:38 KJV) Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

From your reply, it sounds as if you agree with me that we have to repent of our sins to be saved.

That scripture you posted proves it easily, but @GodB4Us says to repent is not of sins and just means to believe in Jesus.

He needs to give at least one scripture where Paul rebukes people for obeying Jesus for repenting of their sins...rebukes them for doing right too much.

Do you understand what I am saying?

@GodB4Us says we are saved by faith alone and that all the times Paul gets onto people and says 'not of works' that it is about making sure the people don't think their obedience to Christ besides faith got them saved.

I explain though that the 'not of works' that Paul is referring to is circumcision and the other purification works.

 

[God's Truth]

Wow, talk about selective blindness. You just did the exact same thing that you charged @God's Truth with doing. And that would be playing with context.

Glad you noticed that.

Unfortunately, I have not found your skills in English adequate enough to be able to establish a reasonable context, though I acknowledge that you think you've done so. This presents me with a dilemma, in that it would seem you're not open to the possibility that you might be wrong.

Not sure who you are talking about there.

The contention between James (the brother of Jesus) and Paul is quite evident to any reader who is not driven by a need to make things harmonious within the early church.

There are two Apostles that are named James, and, there is another James in the Bible who is the brother of Jesus. You don't know for sure which James wrote James.

As for the writing of James in the Bible...he does not say anything different than what Paul preached. You will have to show where so that we can discuss it.

Paul screamed bloody murder to be acknowledged as an apostle, since he was not.

He defended himself. There is nothing wrong with that.

Peter, Paul, and James were just not all on the same page.

The only time Peter and a James were not on the same page, is when PETER ACTED OUT OF LINE with the truth in fear of the Jews. There were Jews who were called Judaziers. Those Jews demanded that the old purification works be upheld, and, that means the Christian Jews could not associate with uncircumcised Gentiles.

Peter had fear of the Jews before and it is why he denied Jesus three times.

Furthermore, the timelines in Acts and Galatians differ.

What? What makes you say that? Give the scripture/s and explanation.

But I'm not about to waste my time in a discussion when it's obvious that you've made up your mind.

That is a cop out.

Most people have their mind made up, but I know the truth I speak can change that.

By all means, then, there's no need to repent. !!

Mercy me what shall I do ??
(GodB4Us says NOTHING !!)
Jesus tells me differently.

So glad to hear you say you know Jesus says we have to repent. It is strange that so many people go against that.

 

[Garee]

God works in those who are saved, those who have believed and obeyed are the ones Jesus saves.

Yes if God does not do the first works of giving him his understanding or faith then thy would have nothing to obey .

We do NOT have to have understanding to obey God, but God gives understanding AFTER we obey Him

You are putting the cart before the horse. We can obey him as he gives us his understanding .He performs all things that are appointed to us .

We are to have Jesus as our Teacher. The only way to have Jesus as our teacher is to get his teachings from the New Testament and do what he says, THEN he will give us his Spirit and give us understanding.

HOWEVER, we can CORRECT others on what the truth is, and we do that by showing the scriptures.

Paul opposes Peter. See Galatians 2:11-21

1 Timothy 1:3-4 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Titus 1:13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

Faith of God is a work we are not saved by any work we could do .Natural man is dead or powerless to obey (no faith as it is written )

Again you are putting the cart before the horse. Making salvation dependent on both your own will and power . Why murmur, Jesus our brother in the Lord did it with delight .Are you ashamed of the gospel of Christ it alone is the power of God unto salvation from his mighty work of faith the unseen will and power of God to the same will and power of God

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

He gives us his understandings a will and also empowers us to work it out. Yoked with him our burden is lighter . without him we can do nothing that could please him ..

Study the phrase faith (Christ's) to faith (Christ's)

Romans 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (Christ's) faith.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes if God does not do the first works of giving him his understanding or faith then thy would have nothing to obey .

That doesn't even make sense.
God does not supernaturally work in a person who does not believe and obey Him.

You are putting the cart before the horse. We can obey him as he gives us his understanding .He performs all things that are appointed to us .

You are going against the scriptures!
God plainly says He gives understanding to those who OBEY.

Faith of God is a work we are not saved by any work we could do .

Faith is a work and it is dead if you don't do a right action with it like repent of your sins.

Natural man is dead or powerless to obey (no faith as it is written )

No such thing what you say, for it is just Calvin and Luther false teachings.

Again you are putting the cart before the horse. Making salvation dependent on both your own will and power

You don't believe and obey then you are saved. You don't keep believing and obeying then you won't stay saved.

You preach don't obey until after you are saved, then you are preaching against how to get saved and teaching others to be disobedient to God.

. Why murmur,

Who is murmuring? You like that word or what? I love obeying God's word, his words are Spirit and life.

Jesus our brother in the Lord did it with delight .

Jesus obeyed and says if we want the Father and him to love us, then we have to obey too.

Are you ashamed of the gospel of Christ it alone is the power of God unto salvation from his mighty work of faith the unseen will and power of God to the same will and power of God

No such thing what you teach, it is a false teachings from those without understanding.

Think about it...they don't have understanding and they don't obey and preach against obeying, when UNDERSTANDING COMES FROM OBEYING.

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

I've explained that to you more than once. That scripture is about THOSE WHO ARE SAVED, and by those who are saved by OBEYING Jesus.

He gives us his understandings a will and also empowers us to work it out. Yoked with him our burden is lighter . without him we can do nothing that could please him ..

Study the phrase faith (Christ's) to faith (Christ's)

Romans 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (Christ's) faith.

That is about NOT GETTING CIRCUMCISED ANYMORE AND doing the other PURIFICATION works.

Read what Paul says in Romans and how many times he MENTIONS WHAT THAT WORKS IS, and it ISN'T "Don't obey or repent or do anything besides believing"!!!

Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

Romans 2:27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 3:1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.


That's the works that do not save anymore!
Circumcision is a SIGN in the flesh that a person is doing the purification works of the law.

 

[God's Truth]

@Garee and @GodB4Us

Romans 4:11

And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.



Circumcision in the flesh was a sign of righteousness.

 

[GodB4Us]

Circumcision is the sign in the flesh that one did the works of the law, which are the purification works.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Here are the works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

That is about the purification works.
Show where Paul EVER rebukes people for obeying by repenting of sins and doing right. It. is. always. about. circumcision. for. which. is. the sign. that. a person. did. the works of the law.

If you don't repent of your sins, then you were saved. If you obey and are saved, but teach against obedience to Christ, then you are ensnared by Satan to preach falseness.

I believe you need to read that again and stop applying His words in according to your belief so that with His help, you may be able to read the truth in His words.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Righteousness is imputed on those who believe though they be uncircumcised.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe you need to read that again and stop applying His words in according to your belief so that with His help, you may be able to read the truth in His words.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Righteousness is imputed on those who believe though they be uncircumcised.

Your eyes are blinded. You will have to humble yourself, just as Jesus says to do.

The scripture says what I said it says, and that circumcision is the sign and seal of righteousness.
Paul is saying it is no more of THAT WORKS.
People did the purification works of the law to be justified before God, to be righteous.

Paul is showing from the scriptures that GOD MADE A PROMISE that He would make a NEW COVENANT one day based on FAITH and not the purification works of the law.

You are shallow and need to go deeper.

 

[GodB4Us]

Your eyes are blinded. You will have to humble yourself, just as Jesus says to do.

The scripture says what I said it says, and that circumcision is the sign and seal of righteousness.
Paul is saying it is no more of THAT WORKS.
People did the purification works of the law to be justified before God, to be righteous.

Paul is showing from the scriptures that GOD MADE A PROMISE that He would make a NEW COVENANT one day based on FAITH and not the purification works of the law.

You are shallow and need to go deeper.

You see your works necessary for obtaining salvation to keep your faith from being dead yet all the while seeing scripture refuting works necessary for salvation because you only see them as referring to purification works rather than all works for salvation.

After we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, and that is how we had received the promise of the Spirit at our born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation, we are able to run that race in going on to perfection looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so we can be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House which is to His glory since all the crowns we receive are really His crowning achievements in us.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The consequence for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ is to lose His crowning achievements in us and becoming a castaway as disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven but still part of His kingdom of Heaven.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

See that scourging? That means whipping. That means stripes on those left behind as found here below for not being ready to go and yet still His servants for why they are getting stripes.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

That is why those who teach heresy or teach breaking even the least of His commandments, wind up as least in the kingdom of heaven but after that scourging, they will never do it again but still they wind up as the least.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That is why we are to call every saved believer and even former believers to go before that throne of grace for help from Jesus Christ to see the truth and repent from all iniquities in being ready to go before the Bridegroom comes.

 

[God's Truth]

You see your works necessary for obtaining salvation to keep your faith from being dead

That doesn't sound right. It sounds like you never obeyed Jesus in any way and don't know the power of being saved but are just infatuated with your faith, which is dead.

yet all the while seeing scripture refuting works necessary for salvation because you only see them as referring to purification works rather than all works for salvation.

The works that don't save are the purification works. You misunderstand Paul.
James and Peter heard of the false faith alone doctrine some people were believing in and James says don't be foolish, and Peter says unstable and unlearned people believe that and then he warns us to obey.

After we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, and that is how we had received the promise of the Spirit at our born again of the Spirit moment of our salvation, we are able to run that race in going on to perfection looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so we can be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House which is to His glory since all the crowns we receive are really His crowning achievements in us.

Faith alone is dead, it can't save anyone.

The consequence for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ is to lose His crowning achievements in us and becoming a castaway as disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven but still part of His kingdom of Heaven.

No such thing as running the race and not obeying. No such thing as even being in the race if you are not saved yet by repenting of your sins and calling on Jesus.

See that scourging? That means whipping. That means stripes on those left behind as found here below for not being ready to go and yet still His servants for why they are getting stripes.

You preach outrageously wrong by saying a person is going to get punished for believing and obeying.

That is why those who teach heresy or teach breaking even the least of His commandments, wind up as least in the kingdom of heaven but after that scourging, they will never do it again but still they wind up as the least.

That is what you are doing. Jesus commands to repent or perish, and you say it would be wrong to do that and that a person won't be saved.

That is why we are to call every saved believer and even former believers to go before that throne of grace for help from Jesus Christ to see the truth and repent from all iniquities in being ready to go before the Bridegroom comes.

They can't even get saved unless they repent.
Do you know why John the baptizer called some of the people coming to be baptized "vipers"?

Luke 3:7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

They are the kind of believers you want to come to Jesus, unrepentant sinners.
John lets them know that they have to repent of their sins:

8 Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

You should fear.

 

[GodB4Us]

That doesn't sound right. It sounds like you never obeyed Jesus in any way and don't know the power of being saved but are just infatuated with your faith, which is dead.

The works that don't save are the purification works. You misunderstand Paul.
James and Peter heard of the false faith alone doctrine some people were believing in and James says don't be foolish, and Peter says unstable and unlearned people believe that and then he warns us to obey.

Faith alone is dead, it can't save anyone.

No such thing as running the race and not obeying. No such thing as even being in the race if you are not saved yet by repenting of your sins and calling on Jesus.

You preach outrageously wrong by saying a person is going to get punished for believing and obeying.

That is what you are doing. Jesus commands to repent or perish, and you say it would be wrong to do that and that a person won't be saved.


They can't even get saved unless they repent.
Do you know why John the baptizer called some of the people coming to be baptized "vipers"?

Luke 3:7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

They are the kind of believers you want to come to Jesus, unrepentant sinners.
John lets them know that they have to repent of their sins:

8 Produce fruit, then, in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

You should fear.

God is able to save those who believe in Jesus Christ without works. That is how we recognize how Jesus Christ has saved us by His grace which is without any works from us for God is pleased to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That said, God is also able to deliver sinners/new believers from their sins daily so they can follow Him in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

 

[Rhema]

From your reply, it sounds as if you agree with me that we have to repent of our sins to be saved.

Sorry... No.

Rather, I agree with Jesus -

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

But I'm glad you agree with Jesus too.

Rhema

(And with regards to an earlier discussion. I recall you once saying that you thought "repent" meant feeling sorry all the time but then learned better. I found that comment quite helpful.)