The One Event

[Bill]

Have to agree with Bill and No-Hype. Plainly written in Matthew 24:29-31 It will happen AFTER the GREAT Tribulation. A gathering of the elect.

If one were to study a bit in the last few chapters of Daniel they would see a timeline for the event as it nears. Given in days.

Some would ask why would God allow His elect to go through such a horrible thing?

Daniel 11:35 And some of THEM OF UNDERSTANDING shall fall, to try them, to purge, and to make them white, EVEN UNTO THE TIME OF THE END:
because it is yet for a time appointed.
Perfecting faith, after all, those who are with the Lord at His coming are called, chosen, faithful, and they loved not their lives unto death.
We can't call, choose or kill ourselves and still be called elect but God can send those who would kill us to try us. Who among us would be able
to withstand "Though He slay me, yet still will I trust in Him"? Jesus did, can you? Same cup in this situation. How awesome would that be? Go out like
Stephen, Paul, Peter and numerous others for our faith. The most precious thing we must never let go of.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
TO TRY THEM that dwell upon the earth.

Two thoughts here. One does not need to be Raptured out to avoid this hour of temptation, they could be simply allowed to peacefully die, or placed in
the wilderness and hidden from the face of the dragon as mentioned in Rev 12:14 Notice here it says for a time, and times, and half a time. 3&1/2 yrs.
Same timing as the Tribulation period.
As far as dead is concerned refer to Isa 57:1 Taken away from the evil to come through death.

Just 2 cents worth.

I honestly feel sorry for those that have to go through the tribulation. Especially when it comes to the mark of the Beast.

If you have children, family, elderly parents, friends. It will be really difficult for all of us to withstand not getting the mark of the beast. Because we will hear the crying out of people who are starving. And we will want to help them

It will only be through faith, that we will prevail. And also in that faith we may have to let people starve to death.

We can always say that we know the mind of God. And we can always say that we think we know the compassion of God. But when children are starving, and you're praying, and there seems to be no answer. This is where the real test of faith begins.

 

[Bill]

I'm a Pre-Trib believer, but that certainly doesn't mean it will take place exactly as we believe.

I base this belief on Rev. 3:10-11,

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

If I'm not mistaken, I read that you don't believe in Dispensations, whereas I do. This places us on a different path of understanding when we study the book of Revelations.

If one believes in the Pre-Trib theory the first significant event to place after the "Rapture" is the appearing of the Anti-Christ.

There will be many, probably millions on earth at this time who believed they were saved but were not and they are not taken in the Rapture, but are left on earth and will know what has happened. This is when some will now truly accept Christ as their Saviour, which accounts for the believing on earth immediately after the Rapture.

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind explaining what you mean by dispensations.

If you're talking about the Seal of God on your forehead I have no problem with that.

 

[Bill]

The scripture he is using " caught up in the clouds" is talking about when Jesus returns at the end.

There is only 1 return of Jesus

There is another thing, the fact about the breaking of the Seals. It is during the Sixth Seal, and only then, that people realize, the Great Day is here.

Read the last line of the Sixth Seal.

All 5 other Seals have been broken and no one noticed.

 

[Charlie24]

May the Lord bless us with his wisdom.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

If this is all you're using to show yourself the concept of the rapture, then may I give you a different View.

Using the same words, you can also look at it as staying on the planet, and being protected by the Lord. While the rest of the world is going through heck.

As an example in Scripture, let us look at the Israelites when they are in Egypt. As slaves of the Egyptians. When Moses was doing the plagues, the last plague the killing of the firstborn of the Egyptians. The angel of death killed all of the Egyptian first born, and spared all of the Israelite children. And how was this made possible, that the Israelites would use the blood of the Lamb and put it on their door posts.

Isn't it written in Revelations, that the Seal of God would be first placed on the children of God, before striking the enemies of God.

This is exactly the same thing that is written in that Passage that you have posted as your witness of the rapture.

So here we enter into some of the hard to be understood things of Scripture.

The 144,000 were the tribes of Israel sealed by God, The Scripture doesn't tell us they were killed, but does say they were "caught up" meaning raptured.

In Rev. 12, we read about the "woman clothed with the sun" this is Israel. "And she brought forth a man-child" this is the 144,000 of whom are the first fruits of Israel to salvation during the Great Tribulation, actually the first half, 3 1/2 years.

Then we read in vs. 5 "and her child was caught up unto God, and His throne."

We have no reason to believe they were killed by the Anti-Christ, but were raptured from his wrath on believers as were the Hebrews saved from the Angel of Death in Egypt by faith in the Blood of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind explaining what you mean by dispensations.

If you're talking about the Seal of God on your forehead I have no problem with that.

Dispensations are times throughout history where God dealt with man according to the knowledge man had of God at that particular time.

For example, we have much more knowledge of God now, than those under the Law. Those under the Law had more knowledge of God than those who lived before the Law given, etc, etc.

Through measuring out these times in dispensations we can see how the knowledge of God spread throughout time.

There are 7 dispensations and by chance there are 7 churches given letters in Revelations.

We use the these dispensations to see the letters to the church's in Revelations as a view of the condition of the church's in the past 2000 years, or so.

For example, The first church mentioned in Rev. 2, Ephesus, represents the first church established in the first century. Each church represents a continuous progression of the church's condition until we reach the last church of the 7, Laodicea. This is the last church and is the church we see today, totally rejected by Christ, whereas the previous church's did have some, maybe few but some good qualities.

From acknowledging these periods of time, we can grasp a much better understanding of the Scripture. But it doesn't stop here, it is used in many other Scriptures as to set forth a better understanding to interpret Scripture.

 

[Bill]

Dispensations are times throughout history where God dealt with man according to the knowledge man had of God at that particular time.

For example, we have much more knowledge of God now, than those under the Law. Those under the Law had more knowledge of God than those who lived before the Law given, etc, etc.

Through measuring out these times in dispensations we can see how the knowledge of God spread throughout time.

There are 7 dispensations and by chance there are 7 churches given letters in Revelations.

We use the these dispensations to see the letters to the church's in Revelations as a view of the condition of the church's in the past 2000 years, or so.

For example, The first church mentioned in Rev. 2, Ephesus, represents the first church established in the first century. Each church represents a continuous progression of the church's condition until we reach the last church of the 7, Laodicea. This is the last church and is the church we see today, totally rejected by Christ, whereas the previous church's did have some, maybe few but some good qualities.

From acknowledging these periods of time, we can grasp a much better understanding of the Scripture. But it doesn't stop here, it is used in many other Scriptures as to set forth a better understanding to interpret Scripture.

Just out of curiosity, if we are the last church, and are rejected by God now. What makes you think anyone is going in a rapture?

 

[twcstp]

I must share this with you guys so you have proper discernment.


Genesis 1:31
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

There is more than '1' antichrist, and many use the Word to draw in but lay a foundation that has no relation to the only Jesus The Christ there is;

1. You have those who willingly erect opposition to scripture,
2. You have those who twist the scripture to fulfill their lusts

it is very difficult to miss,

Jesus taught us to seek His Father and The Kingdom, to repent, and to believe; He taught how to be Godly and how we ought to conduct ourselves in truth.

Forgive me for this is all I am able to contribute here at this time, but know these matters and use your discernment; it cannot be afforded to follow after a false Christ -- the consequences are too great and ALL false Christs are satan's artificial lights.

Jesus said whoever loves Him will follow His commandments, and do them.

it is very, very important to avoid getting caught up in false teachings.

 

[Charlie24]

Just out of curiosity, if we are the last church, and are rejected by God now. What makes you think anyone is going in a rapture?

No, that's not it! In the letters to the churches in Rev., Christ tells us where the church as a whole has fallen by the way and how we got there.

He has always had a remnant of true believers (the true church).

Christ characterizes the Laodicea church as the spiritual fornicator against Him, forsaking Him for the things of this world.

It is the true believers which are the true church, that will be taken in the Rapture.

You see, there is an apostate church and the true church.

 

[Charlie24]

I must share this with you guys so you have proper discernment.


Genesis 1:31
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

There is more than '1' antichrist, and many use the Word to draw in but lay a foundation that has no relation to the only Jesus The Christ there is;

1. You have those who willingly erect opposition to scripture,
2. You have those who twist the scripture to fulfill their lusts

it is very difficult to miss,

Jesus taught us to seek His Father and The Kingdom, to repent, and to believe; He taught how to be Godly and how we ought to conduct ourselves in truth.

Forgive me for this is all I am able to contribute here at this time, but know these matters and use your discernment; it cannot be afforded to follow after a false Christ -- the consequences are too great and ALL false Christs are satan's artificial lights.

Jesus said whoever loves Him will follow His commandments, and do them.

it is very, very important to avoid getting caught up in false teachings.

I think it was John, don't quote me on that, that said there are many anti-Christ's who have come into this world.

But they are not "The Anti-Christ" in the book of Revelation.

Christ told the Jews, "I come in the name of my Father and you receive me not, but another will come in his own name, him you will receive.

Christ was speaking of "The Anti-Christ."

 

[Samson2020]

I was wondering if you wouldn't mind explaining what you mean by dispensations

Eph 1:10 dispensation of times, thus different dispensations.
These to me are the first death-we live in now, the second death-after the second resurrection and who knows after that, but these dispensations
are what allows for the harvest of a crop in each. First death period(dispensation)- first fruits etc.....

For example, The first church mentioned in Rev. 2, Ephesus, represents the first church established in the first century. Each church represents a continuous progression of the church's condition until we reach the last church of the 7, Laodicea. This is the last church and is the church we see today, totally rejected by Christ, whereas the previous church's did have some, maybe few but some good qualities.

Your close but the truth is these letters are written to the elect of the Lord no matter when they are elected. You as a member of the body of Christ are
given opportunity to overcome some, if not all, of the things written in the letters, and garner the reward mentioned, thus, some if not all, were written to you.
If each letter were to a certain age of the church then the overcoming reward would only apply to that age.
Hidden manna and a white stone with a new name??? Seen it and received it.
False doctrines? well we all have many to overcome as He exposes them to us, and sad to say that it is indeed the sanctification by the word that even
separates us from fellow brethren. These days you say anything that isn't part of a groups statements of faith and your shown the door and asked to
not come back. Several times this has happened and He has even sent me back to places that had previously kicked me out, all to witness the false
teachings and call them out. Not necessarily fun but gotta be obedient!

 

[Charlie24]

Eph 1:10 dispensation of times, thus different dispensations.
These to me are the first death-we live in now, the second death-after the second resurrection and who knows after that, but these dispensations
are what allows for the harvest of a crop in each. First death period(dispensation)- first fruits etc.....

Your close but the truth is these letters are written to the elect of the Lord no matter when they are elected. You as a member of the body of Christ are
given opportunity to overcome some, if not all, of the things written in the letters, and garner the reward mentioned, thus, some if not all, were written to you.
If each letter were to a certain age of the church then the overcoming reward would only apply to that age.
Hidden manna and a white stone with a new name??? Seen it and received it.
False doctrines? well we all have many to overcome as He exposes them to us, and sad to say that it is indeed the sanctification by the word that even
separates us from fellow brethren. These days you say anything that isn't part of a groups statements of faith and your shown the door and asked to
not come back. Several times this has happened and He has even sent me back to places that had previously kicked me out, all to witness the false
teachings and call them out. Not necessarily fun but gotta be obedient!

All the churches throughout history would read these letters from Christ given to John as one book.

They were given all together in the book of Revelations.

Of course they were written to the true believers in all churches and in every generation.

Each person is responsible for the deception of good and evil that Christ points out in these letters no matter what period they lived.

That's why each of the 7 letters contain the words, "he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

 

[Bill]

All the churches throughout history would read these letters from Christ given to John as one book.

They were given all together in the book of Revelations.

Of course they were written to the true believers in all churches and in every generation.

Each person is responsible for the deception of good and evil that Christ points out in these letters no matter what period they lived.

That's why each of the 7 letters contain the words, "he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

It is important to remember, when looking at scripture. That our understanding of all that is written has not been handed down as you suggest, rather it has been handed down only from a few Generations ago to the present.

If you had been following what was written down from centuries ago, then you're thinking would be much more like that of the Catholic Church. Because the split between churches only occurred from the time of Martin Luther back in the 1500s and not before, the with some exceptions. Like the pagans that followed a different route altogether. (I.E Druids)

If you had been following what was handed down, then teachings like that from St Jerome 343 - 420 , St. Gregory of Narek 950 - 1005 , St. Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 , St. Catherine of Siena 1347 - 1380, should affect your thinking, as they are all defenders of the Christian Church.

 

[Samson2020]

If you had been following what was written down from centuries ago, then you're thinking would be much more like that of the Catholic Church. Because the split between churches only occurred from the time of Martin Luther back in the 1500s and not before, the with some exceptions. Like the pagans that followed a different route altogether. (I.E Druids)

If you had been following what was handed down, then teachings like that from St Jerome 343 - 420 , St. Gregory of Narek 950 - 1005 , St. Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 , St. Catherine of Siena 1347 - 1380, should affect your thinking, as they are all defenders of the Christian Church.

Who that has the HG needs any teaching of man? 1 John 2:27

Let us also note that the Catholic Church was the group that with held the Bible from their own paritioners claiming that it was the church leadership
that were the only ones that had the right to interpret scripture. Council of Trent 1545.
At one time the penalty for indepependant interpretation was death.

Look up groups such as the Novatians, Paulicans, Bogomils, Patarines, all included under the name Catharis and see what was done to them by the CC.

I have no problem with any individual but the organization is a monster that can never be satisfied thus the power and blood lust went on for way to long.

 

[Charlie24]

It is important to remember, when looking at scripture. That our understanding of all that is written has not been handed down as you suggest, rather it has been handed down only from a few Generations ago to the present.

If you had been following what was written down from centuries ago, then you're thinking would be much more like that of the Catholic Church. Because the split between churches only occurred from the time of Martin Luther back in the 1500s and not before, the with some exceptions. Like the pagans that followed a different route altogether. (I.E Druids)

If you had been following what was handed down, then teachings like that from St Jerome 343 - 420 , St. Gregory of Narek 950 - 1005 , St. Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 , St. Catherine of Siena 1347 - 1380, should affect your thinking, as they are all defenders of the Christian Church.

The Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany.

The title was, "the just shall live by faith," which was the opposite of what the Catholic Church was doing.

I take it you're a Catholic, if that's the case then we will see very little in common concerning the Scripture.

 

[Bill]

The Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany.

The title was, "the just shall live by faith," which was the opposite of what the Catholic Church was doing.

I take it you're a Catholic, if that's the case then we will see very little in common concerning the Scripture.

Why would you say we will see little in common have you read all my posts?

Feel free to ask anyone here, are my views Christian?

Just because i see things from another viewpoint does not mean i am not Christian.

God never made robots, and we are all not in lock step. God created us to be intellegent, to think and to choose. We are created in God's image. Mind, spirit and soul, a trinity.

It stands to reason, God wants us to not only love Him, but to grow deeply in His wisdom

By the way, i have never heard anyone in heaven say or ask what church they belong to

 

[Bill]

The Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany.

The title was, "the just shall live by faith," which was the opposite of what the Catholic Church was doing.

I take it you're a Catholic, if that's the case then we will see very little in common concerning the Scripture.

"The Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany."

From my understanding, the Reformation had begun maybe 50 years before when some of the Bishops in the Catholic Church started promoting a cost for indulgences. This was never a Catholic teaching, but there were Bishops that were promoting it to fill their own coffers with money.

I would say it would be similar to some of the teachings that are coming out presently from some Bishops and Cardinals and from the pope himself, talking about something to do with same-sex marriage and blessings. It is certainly a very frustrating time for any true Catholic.

I am 100% for the teachings of the scripture about one man and one woman in matrimony with God.

I am also 100% against anything to do with homosexuality or the alphabet soup crowd. It is an abomination to the Holiness of marriage.

I realize that there are differences between the Catholics and the Protestants. But I'm not here to sit there and argue who's right or who's wrong. Because in my thinking, we are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ

 

[Bill]

All of those people that I posted from history, are people who have defended the faith of Christianity. And are honored in the Catholic church as Saints. Some of them are also people who were inspired by Jesus to write the scripture as we now have it.

St Jerome, was one of those who was instrumental in translating the Hebrew into the modern language, translating the Old Testament.

 

[Charlie24]

Why would you say we will see little in common have you read all my posts?

Feel free to ask anyone here, are my views Christian?

Just because i see things from another viewpoint does not mean i am not Christian.

God never made robots, and we are all not in lock step. God created us to be intellegent, to think and to choose. We are created in God's image. Mind, spirit and soul, a trinity.

It stands to reason, God wants us to not only love Him, but to grow deeply in His wisdom

By the way, i have never heard anyone in heaven say or ask what church they belong to

I'm not in the business of condemning others for what they believe, that is between them and God. But it is my business to worship God in "spirit and truth" from the heart and not through man-made ceremonies and rituals.

That is where Judaism failed and left Christ behind.

 

[Bill]

I'm not in the business of condemning others for what they believe, that is between them and God. But it is my business to worship God in "spirit and truth" from the heart and not through man-made ceremonies and rituals.

That is where Judaism failed and left Christ behind.

I guess i fail to understand you. Where are the man - made ceremonies and rituals.

Look, not trying to be a horses behind, but when did Jesus tell people not to celebrate Him in a temple or church? Didn't Jesus say He was here to fulfill the Law?

The Laws of Moses include keeping Holy the Sabbath Day. Now personally I don't think it matters whether you celebrate on Saturday or Sunday or one day of the week, so long as you keep one day of the week special for God.

There are roughly over 600 different laws that are in the laws of Moses, concerning the Jewish people. And there are many of those laws that we take on in our Christian lives as well. But neither the apostles nor Jesus revoked the use of any of those laws, in fact Jesus made them a little more difficult.

 

[Charlie24]

I guess i fail to understand you. Where are the man - made ceremonies and rituals.

Look, not trying to be a horses behind, but when did Jesus tell people not to celebrate Him in a temple or church? Didn't Jesus say He was here to fulfill the Law?

The Laws of Moses include keeping Holy the Sabbath Day. Now personally I don't think it matters whether you celebrate on Saturday or Sunday or one day of the week, so long as you keep one day of the week special for God.

There are roughly over 600 different laws that are in the laws of Moses, concerning the Jewish people. And there are many of those laws that we take on in our Christian lives as well. But neither the apostles nor Jesus revoked the use of any of those laws, in fact Jesus made them a little more difficult.

Let me ask you a simple question.

What are the requirements for one to be saved (born-again) according to the RCC?