What If I'm Born Gay?

[Brother-Paul]

@Sue D.

God Does have a 'promised land' waiting for Us. It's called heaven. But our grumbling / complaining about our journey isn't going to keep Us out Of the coming eternity In heaven. That would be -- in effect -- a works-based salvation.

God does have a 'Promised Land' for us.
It is here on earth.

If we die up to the Rapture we have the Current Heaven. Paradise, but our Promised Land is here on the New Heaven/New Earth.

@Sue D. @KingJ
Hope you don't mind me adding this, which is also off topic.

 

[KingJ]

that you seem very self assured of your views and of your own righteousness, and also of the assurance that you are a "Christian", you speak of "repentance", do you repent of all your sins, and how do you know that you're not one of the "many" Christ spoke of who believe themselves saved, but in fact are condemned, is there no room for doubt or uncertainty in your beliefs?,

If you look at the thief next to Jesus on the cross, you will see that being chosen for heaven is not about our daily perfection but rather all about depth of intent.

If we can hit the necessary depth of intent such that we pass God's judgement Jer 17:9-11 and are given a revelation of Jesus by the Holy Sirit 1 Cor 12:3, the fruits of this will be a desire to daily repent of our sins. People will see the fruits of the spirit in us. We too ''should'' see them 2 Cor 13:5.

I judge myself daily in fear and trembling as Phil 2:12 says I should. Because as you said, it could be that I assume I am saved whereas I am not.

I suppose only a martyr would know for sure as Rev 2:10-11 says they go straight to heaven.

So whilst I do believe God has given me a revelation of Jesus and I know my life changed from one of living in sexual sin to going 100% off practicing any of it, I do need to watch myself daily.

Now when I judge myself. I consider mortal sins. I consider being unrepentant in venial sins. I consider my ability to do whatever God asks of me. As Matt 16:24 says I should be able to lay my life down for God.

 

[KingJ]

and who amongst us is to say who will be condemned , as Christ said" with god everything is possible", he sees into our hearts, knows our lives and actions , and he alone will judge us, you are a sinner, you view
"judgement" through the prism of your own sins, who are you to cast the first stone, leave that where it belongs

Paul does not beat around the bush in 1 Cor 6:9-12. He makes it crystal clear that those in unrepentant sin will not be in heaven. So it is not a case of us not casting stones. Of course we must not cast stones. It is all about us judging and discerning one another properly so as to be able to help them properly. A person in a mortal sin loves the darkness way more then a person in a venial sin. This is not rocket science. We grab the person in mortal sin Pro 27:6, we gently correct the person in venial sin.

I would not say ''with God everything is possible''. He has made it that everything is not possible. Free will. He cannot force a sinner to repent. As some would have you believe. A Christian has a duty / job to perform on earth 'FOR' God. We must not fail at it.

thats an interesting take on the incident of the woman taken in Adultery, i would imagine that the woman, like all of us continued to sin,

She did not continue in adultery anymore then Paul continued in murder. Sin is sin and sin has degrees. We have discussed this already.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Rad said:
thats an interesting take on the incident of the woman taken in Adultery, i would imagine that the woman, like all of us continued to sin

But hopefully not by committing adultery.

 

[Sue D.]

If you look at the thief next to Jesus on the cross, you will see that being chosen for heaven is not about our daily perfection but rather all about depth of intent.

If we can hit the necessary depth of intent such that we pass God's judgement Jer 17:9-11 and are given a revelation of Jesus by the Holy Sirit 1 Cor 12:3, the fruits of this will be a desire to daily repent of our sins. People will see the fruits of the spirit in us. We too ''should'' see them 2 Cor 13:5.

I judge myself daily in fear and trembling as Phil 2:12 says I should. Because as you said, it could be that I assume I am saved whereas I am not.

I suppose only a martyr would know for sure as Rev 2:10-11 says they go straight to heaven.

So whilst I do believe God has given me a revelation of Jesus and I know my life changed from one of living in sexual sin to going 100% off practicing any of it, I do need to watch myself daily.

Now when I judge myself. I consider mortal sins. I consider being unrepentant in venial sins. I consider my ability to do whatever God asks of me. As Matt 16:24 says I should be able to lay my life down for God.

KingJ -- your stance on mortal and venial sins is purely RCC.

And each person Can know - for certain- that they Will spend eternity in heaven. The Holy Spirit's indwelling us = we 'know' He's there. There's an inner peace. Now granted -- there Are those who've been caught up in drinking, or drugs or porn or 'whatever' that - even though they no longer Do those things -- they realize that they have to be careful to Not allow themselves even that 'one' drink or shot of 'something' or a peak at the porn station on TV. Or the book. Because they realize that they are still very human. Satan would love to have that person slide back into some of those habits. And That could cause Others to point a finger and say ''Look at him, doing That again, so much for His brand of Christianity"

You are So much into Works -- or at least No sense of being secure in Christ. My take on your comments is that you , personally, have not actually accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. And Lots of people who've been in the RCC , have problems believing that Jesus Christ, Himself, did all that's necessary.

So -- a person needs to reach the necessary depth of intent in order to pass God's judgement. So -- how Does a person actually Know what depth that Is and if it has, indeed Been met. THAT sounds a Lot like 'how much does a person need to pay the Church in order to get their loved one out of purgatory." and it seems that the Only person who does know - is the priest of the parish. So it's up to that other human being to decide how much a person pays the church.

And, it's Not being chosen for heaven. It IS the fact that God has all that knowledge -- He alone knows who will and who will Not accept His gift of salvation that a person needs to accept for him / her self.

Our salvation is NOT determined by what fruits our life are being seen by others. It's the other way around.

The 1 Corinthians 12: 3 passage --while it Is talking about spiritual gifts -- that particular verse "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" -- spiritual gifts are Not fruits of the Spirit.

Whatever someone or some group is teaching you -- they are taking a verse here and there -- out of it's context and misapplying it.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ -- your stance on mortal and venial sins is purely RCC.

And each person Can know - for certain- that they Will spend eternity in heaven. The Holy Spirit's indwelling us = we 'know' He's there. There's an inner peace. Now granted -- there Are those who've been caught up in drinking, or drugs or porn or 'whatever' that - even though they no longer Do those things -- they realize that they have to be careful to Not allow themselves even that 'one' drink or shot of 'something' or a peak at the porn station on TV. Or the book. Because they realize that they are still very human. Satan would love to have that person slide back into some of those habits. And That could cause Others to point a finger and say ''Look at him, doing That again, so much for His brand of Christianity"

You are So much into Works -- or at least No sense of being secure in Christ. My take on your comments is that you , personally, have not actually accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. And Lots of people who've been in the RCC , have problems believing that Jesus Christ, Himself, did all that's necessary.

So -- a person needs to reach the necessary depth of intent in order to pass God's judgement. So -- how Does a person actually Know what depth that Is and if it has, indeed Been met. THAT sounds a Lot like 'how much does a person need to pay the Church in order to get their loved one out of purgatory." and it seems that the Only person who does know - is the priest of the parish. So it's up to that other human being to decide how much a person pays the church.

And, it's Not being chosen for heaven. It IS the fact that God has all that knowledge -- He alone knows who will and who will Not accept His gift of salvation that a person needs to accept for him / her self.

Our salvation is NOT determined by what fruits our life are being seen by others. It's the other way around.

The 1 Corinthians 12: 3 passage --while it Is talking about spiritual gifts -- that particular verse "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" -- spiritual gifts are Not fruits of the Spirit.

Whatever someone or some group is teaching you -- they are taking a verse here and there -- out of it's context and misapplying it.

I don't know how many times I have to ask you to quote me. Your reply is way out there.

 

[Sue D.]

King J -- why not simply read what I'm sharing back with you.

Your reply is , also.

This thread topic Is -- what if I'm born gay. No one is born gay. No matter What Society says -- God's way is a man and a woman being together to have family together. No other combination works. And being together means being married. Marriage is the only union in which to enjoy physical , sexual intimacy. non-married people are to be sexually pure.

 

[KingJ]

as to your final point, and perhaps this could bring us back on thread, you have spoken passionately and vehemently of yours, and Gods Abhorrence of Homosexuality, and how you feel threatened by the Gay agenda infringing your rights, this for me is a reflection of your general attitude, there is an intolerance, a self righteousness , an absolute conviction of the correctness of your position that is displayed here, talk of Baking cakes and Gay marriage i feel hides a deeper dislike not just of Homosexuality but of Homosexuals themselves, i have the same "uneasiness" with Homosexuals as i do with Rich people, those that care little for the poor and needy, those that pollute and destroy Gods creation, abuse animals,....... and my own sins as well, which include most of the aforementioned, and despite my best attempts, my hypocrisy still runs deep ......

You assume a lot. This is a thread on homosexuality. If you want to discuss another sin, open another thread.

perhaps bashing those that are marginalised and despised

You need to meditate on Pro 27:6. A person in sin will see anyone telling them to stop and repent as ''bashing'' them.

I feel you need to attend a church and get involved in missionary work.

If you have great, different and inspired ideas to reach those in mortal sin, please share. My intention and all those at my church is only to help....save people from hell. Everyone.

PS We teach and encourage modesty at my church. Lavish lifestyles when there are hungry children is not Christianity.

 

[Rad]

Hello Rad,
No problem on the kind words :smile: I do love you brother!

Now on what you are seeking to put into the Christian realm of authority or control is something that actually belongs to the secular. The governments we are talking about are secular. Certain individuals within the government might profess to being of one faith or another, but in total they really are Secular. To quote former President Obama. America is not a Christian Nation. So, tying what drives policies to Christianity, is either not understanding, or seeing only part of the picture. Certainly there are churches & faith based organizations that are attempting to ensure that faith based policies are in place. However, there is probably more movement (laws) in the direction of condoning alternate life styles, or immoral life styles, which is the way I see it according to Scripture, than there is promoting Bible based Morality. Which means to me that these laws are allowing for a new type of Sodom/Gomorrah to exist. Normalizing certain types of life styles is not loving dear brother. Quite the opposite really.

We as Christians cannot use a misapplying of the concept of love as an excuse to disregard what Scripture says as it pertains to Morality. There is a "truth" that exists in Scripture that time or social mores has no affect on. God does not change as it pertains to Sin. He's allowed His Mercy and Forgiveness through His Son Jesus Christ to be made available to all. The problem is that not all want it. Many because they actually think they know what Scripture says, and "change" is not what they want, even if it's for their benefit. So, if man made laws, and misguided Christians can be used to make sinful behavior acceptable or appear normal. They'll jump at that, but leave the Word of God, to the annals of History. That is if they could. The Word of God is Eternal brother.

So, the battle for not only the hearts, but the very souls of each person is happening as we speak. Have there been excesses now and in history? Yes, and sadly, for what they have done. They will have a day of accounting. You may say, but that doesn't help those who have paid the price, or still paying the price, but I tell you they are in good company with our Lord and Savior.

I would just plead with you that what individuals go through or what they do while still without Christ in their lives, not hold you from sharing what He did on the Cross for them. Yes, I repeat, that many have paid a high price, by some misguided Christians, some so-called Christians, and Secular people mostly. Just remember that we're not living for this World as Children of the Most High, but for the one to come, as we await His return.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Hi Nick, thanks again my friend, however , if you knew me better, but then thats another story,...... and i'm in complete agreement with you, there has never been and never will be a "Christian nation" on this Earth, for Nations are made up of people who in the majority, are not Christians and whose primary motivations are Greed, selfishness and a Lust for Power and dominance,........ and the point i'm making is that within these Nations political and religious leaders have falsely used Christianity to justify the perpetration of some of the worst crimes in human History, they spew out their Hate and Intolerance and in general people have been only too willing to follow their lead, that is the danger i talk of when we have a situation today where some sections of the so called "Christian" community preach that same intolerance and Hate, be it towards Homosexuals, Immigrants or even those that disagree with their own political stance,....... and i'm not disregarding Scripture when talking of Sin in the name of Love and Compassion, my problem is, and always has been with the manner and attitude of the condemnation of Sin and also how easy it appears for some to transfer their hatred of particular sins on to the sinner themselves, they appoint themselves as Judge, Jury and Executioner, and that we cannot do,...... but then at the last i disagree with you Nick, for i believe we are called to live for this World, to do all we can to help those in need, to let our Good works shine forth and live lives of Love, Compassion, mercy and Humility, for isn't that what God requires of us?

 

[Rad]

LGBTQ+ There is never a day now that there isn't publicity about it.

This week SKY TV are pushing films that back it.

The other day I read that big nation accompanies are now backing it, why, quite simple it says, there is big money to be made in it.

I went to Sainsbury's supermarket, a big bill board says We back LGBTQ+ The bar code readers have rainbow colours on them. They sell Tu brand clothing, who is gay.

The only good news, though for the wrong reason, was Putin had the film Rocket Man by Elton John edited to take out the gay parts.

It is good to see people stand up to the LGBTQ+ movement, sadly the only ones to stand up against it so far are
- Putin in Russia
- Muslims in Birmingham UK

Where are the institutionalised christian church leaders?

Not a word, they are probably to frightened due to their own sins, probably to frightened as church numbers are dropping.

But let us not worry, in the end times, in the latter days, it will appear the devil has domain. It sure does but the good news it is only confirming scripture as True!

Hi Brother Paul, ...... you say that "there isn't a day now that there isn't publicity about it", well why should there be, there isn't a Day that there isn't publicity about issues of Greed, hate, intolerance, Lust, just take a look at the adverts we are constantly subjected to, or the news from the Border Detention centres, or a thousand and one other places in this sin filled world, why do you seem fixated on the Sin of Homosexuality and i think you need to put the issue into context, for years Homosexuals were, and in many ways still are subjected to hostility and discrimination, now you might agree with that, i don't know, but i fail to understand why just one set of sinners should be so dealt with, they have fought for their rights as Human beings within society, for equality under the law and the PRIDE Celebrations that you see so much of are an expression of this struggle, would you deny them this equality,...... whatever your religious views surely as human beings they have basic human rights, or do you see them as less than human, and if you do, would you extend that principle to all sinners, if so then we're all in a bit of a mess for none of us would pass the test,....... and why is it "Good news" that Putin, and if you knew anything of Putins Russia i doubt you would be lauding him as some kind of hero, is "standing up to the LGBTQ movement", you are aware that in Chechnya, another of Putins" Good news" events, Gay people have been imprisoned, tortured and Murdered simply for being Gay, and in some sections of the Muslim world, gay people can suffer the same fate, the Sultan of Brunei recently brought in a law whereby people convicted of Homosexual acts would be stoned to death, is that the type of "Standing up" you would like to see,....... i would hope that Christians would act in a way that reflects the teachings of Christ, condemn the sin, but have Mercy and Compassion for the sinner, for we are all sinners, and however assured we may feel in our own salvation, we too may be judged in the same manner in which we sometimes so eagerly and harshly judge others.

 

[Christ4Ever]

but then at the last i disagree with you Nick, for i believe we are called to live for this World, to do all we can to help those in need, to let our Good works shine forth and live lives of Love, Compassion, mercy and Humility, for isn't that what God requires of us?

Hello Rad,
There in is the problem. We are in the World, but not of it. Getting ourselves involved with those who have but a Secular consideration and who can never understand where we are coming from is most difficult. What does light have to do with darkness? Yes, we let our good works, for which we were made for, shine forth. Living lives of love, compassion, mercy with humility. For which we can only do if with interact with them on some level.

Still, this does mean that we acquiesce to the very things which are corruption. Could this be considered being judgmental? In a way, but what standard of behavior and comportment is not based upon us deciding on what to do or what not to do? The difference is that we use the Word of God as our foundation for these standards, and not our own desires or wants. Communicating them in a way that shows that not only were we too were like them once, and might even be tempted to be so again, but that in Christ Jesus change for the better is the order of the day.

So, we are slowly becoming not what the World says we should be, or what we want to be, unless it's closer to being like our Lord, but being what our God wants us to be in all that we do and say. A Light, Salt to a dark, people and this World.

I know it's difficult to not agree with those we love, who are not of the Body of Christ. They don't understand that you can hate the sin, but still love them. Tell them that Jesus Christ did that very thing. He interacted with us before we even came to Him on bent knees, and yet it never affected the love He showed for us. More importantly let them know that He died to take away the very thing that has separated us from our God, which is sin. And not stopping there, but providing us a guide, One who can help with turning us into the new Creation in the Light of our Savior.

Dear Brother. You won't reach them all. I would count it a blessing if one could be reached, though we hope for all. Still we continue to share that very love, without compromising the very things we know to be true in Christ Jesus. If necessary, tossing ourselves at their feet, with tears rolling down our checks, so that if they want "hell", they'll have to jump over our prone bodies to do so!

Does God require us to do the latter? No, but if we love the Lord, the Sinner, and want to see them Saved, we should not shy from even that.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Brother-Paul]

Hi Brother Paul, ...... you say that "there isn't a day now that there isn't publicity about it", well why should there be, there isn't a Day that there isn't publicity about issues of Greed, hate, intolerance, Lust, just take a look at the adverts we are constantly subjected to, or the news from the Border Detention centres, or a thousand and one other places in this sin filled world, why do you seem fixated on the Sin of Homosexuality and i think you need to put the issue into context, for years Homosexuals were, and in many ways still are subjected to hostility and discrimination, now you might agree with that, i don't know, but i fail to understand why just one set of sinners should be so dealt with, they have fought for their rights as Human beings within society, for equality under the law and the PRIDE Celebrations that you see so much of are an expression of this struggle, would you deny them this equality,...... whatever your religious views surely as human beings they have basic human rights, or do you see them as less than human, and if you do, would you extend that principle to all sinners, if so then we're all in a bit of a mess for none of us would pass the test,....... and why is it "Good news" that Putin, and if you knew anything of Putins Russia i doubt you would be lauding him as some kind of hero, is "standing up to the LGBTQ movement", you are aware that in Chechnya, another of Putins" Good news" events, Gay people have been imprisoned, tortured and Murdered simply for being Gay, and in some sections of the Muslim world, gay people can suffer the same fate, the Sultan of Brunei recently brought in a law whereby people convicted of Homosexual acts would be stoned to death, is that the type of "Standing up" you would like to see,....... i would hope that Christians would act in a way that reflects the teachings of Christ, condemn the sin, but have Mercy and Compassion for the sinner, for we are all sinners, and however assured we may feel in our own salvation, we too may be judged in the same manner in which we sometimes so eagerly and harshly judge others.

It was a comment my friend

Yes we love them but cannot accept the sin. Chat online is not like face to face chat.

Example
Person-1 says, is homosexual right

P2 says no not in God's eye it isn't

P1 says no and it is in the news everday now.

Face to face the chat refers to the previous statement made.

Online we tend to take every statement on it's own and reply accordingly.

In a face to face chat we know the person so don't need to explain everything again, online we reply to the last statement a person makes, not knowing or not bringing to mind what a person may have said previously.

If we read scripture like that we would be in trouble, but some do. They take a verse or part of a verse to say it all.

e.g. Call on the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Many feel they called but how did they call?

Believe on the Lord and you will be saved. Many think they are saved because they believe but is it in the head or from the heart?

John 3:16 is a prime example, the Gospel in miniature. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whosoever believes on him has everlasting life.

This verse follows on from what Jesus says in John 3:3, 5 & 7 we must be born again, we should not be surprised we must be born again. If we haven't read the beginning of the conversation/verse how can we understand the current one.

Anyone reading this Gospel topic should read all 21 verses or they fail to know the truth in the word.

Scripture issues can be avoided by reading more and understanding the context, chats on forums will always be prone to replying to the last message posted I guess.

Bless you brother

Jesus loves you, I do too.

 

[Rad]

If you look at the thief next to Jesus on the cross, you will see that being chosen for heaven is not about our daily perfection but rather all about depth of intent.

If we can hit the necessary depth of intent such that we pass God's judgement Jer 17:9-11 and are given a revelation of Jesus by the Holy Sirit 1 Cor 12:3, the fruits of this will be a desire to daily repent of our sins. People will see the fruits of the spirit in us. We too ''should'' see them 2 Cor 13:5.

I judge myself daily in fear and trembling as Phil 2:12 says I should. Because as you said, it could be that I assume I am saved whereas I am not.

I suppose only a martyr would know for sure as Rev 2:10-11 says they go straight to heaven.

So whilst I do believe God has given me a revelation of Jesus and I know my life changed from one of living in sexual sin to going 100% off practicing any of it, I do need to watch myself daily.

Now when I judge myself. I consider mortal sins. I consider being unrepentant in venial sins. I consider my ability to do whatever God asks of me. As Matt 16:24 says I should be able to lay my life down for God.

First of all many thanks KingJ for replying in parts as i requested, it makes it much easier for me to reply back,...... i agree with you about "intent", or as i see it the motivation behind our actions, it seems to me that there is no one"ticket" for salvation, some of Christs statements imply Faith, others works, but above all there is the underlying Motivation of Love, without which we are truly lost Souls,...... and whilst i judge my actions , i never pronounce on my salvation, for i see that as Gods jurisdiction, Christ said to whom much is given, much will be required, i don't know how much is required of me, or of anyone, for there is always so much more i could do, but choose not to,...... which is why i would never say that anyone, whatever their sins, even homosexuality which you seem to regard as a sin worthy of Gods greatest Abhorrence, is condemned to Hell, for with God, everything is possible,.....

 

[Rad]

Paul does not beat around the bush in 1 Cor 6:9-12. He makes it crystal clear that those in unrepentant sin will not be in heaven. So it is not a case of us not casting stones. Of course we must not cast stones. It is all about us judging and discerning one another properly so as to be able to help them properly. A person in a mortal sin loves the darkness way more then a person in a venial sin. This is not rocket science. We grab the person in mortal sin Pro 27:6, we gently correct the person in venial sin.

I would not say ''with God everything is possible''. He has made it that everything is not possible. Free will. He cannot force a sinner to repent. As some would have you believe. A Christian has a duty / job to perform on earth 'FOR' God. We must not fail at it.

She did not continue in adultery anymore then Paul continued in murder. Sin is sin and sin has degrees. We have discussed this already.

.... and when Christ depicted the Day of Judgement in the "Sheep and the Goats" he made it crystal clear that those that fail to help the suffering and oppressed will not get into heaven, he made it Crystal clear that the "rich" will not get into Heaven, in the "Seven Woes" he berates and condemns the religious leaders and the powerful for their Hypocrisy and Oppression, for everything that men value is an abomination in the sight of God, who amongst us daily repents of all their sins, i know i don't, as the Publican i regard myself as a miserable sinner unworthy of Gods forgiveness, and unworthy to judge others,...... it wasn't me that said "with God everything is possible" Christ said that in answer to the question"Then who can be saved"?, why would you not believe that,...... and how do you know the woman didn't commit adultery again, where is your reference,

 

[Rad]

You assume a lot. This is a thread on homosexuality. If you want to discuss another sin, open another thread.

You need to meditate on Pro 27:6. A person in sin will see anyone telling them to stop and repent as ''bashing'' them.

I feel you need to attend a church and get involved in missionary work.

If you have great, different and inspired ideas to reach those in mortal sin, please share. My intention and all those at my church is only to help....save people from hell. Everyone.

PS We teach and encourage modesty at my church. Lavish lifestyles when there are hungry children is not Christianity.

No, the point i'm making is tied to the thread of Homosexuality, its about the Hypocrisy of condemning one particular sin and ignoring others, of proclaiming that you follow Gods word but of cherry picking the bits to follow, you raised the issue of Gay marriage and baking cakes for homosexuals, would you have a similar problem with rich people being married in church, or of baking cakes for those that ignored the sufferings of others, why is it that Homosexuality is raised by some Christians above other sins that Christ regarded as worthy of the worst condemnation, namely Hell,...... and when Christians talk of Gays being murdered, when christians propose laws that would allow the witholding of medical services to gays purely on the basis of their sexuality, when people can be fired form their jobs by Christian organisations for being gay, well i'd call the "bashing" wouldn't you, perhaps if you were on the receiving end of this " talk of repentance" you might see it a little differently,...... as for "missionary work" well perhaps in a way i did, i spent 10 years going round many different Churches trying to raise the issue of Compassion and Justice before i burnt out, i helped form a number of peace and Justice groups and was heavily involved with the "make Poverty History" campaign in 2005, but i'm not a great communicator, i'm not good with people, and in the end , well i just ran out of steam, but i didn't stop i now campaign through an internet based Group i run and bring my faith and beliefs to many other groups i'm a member of, ...... as for "Lavish lifestyles", and "Modesty", well with around 800 million men, women and children on Gods Earth barely surviving on less than $2 a day and with around 6 million young children dying from malnutrition and disease every year, i often wonder just how God views our "Modest lifestyles"?.

 

[Sue D.]

So -- you're suggesting that 'everyone' live on What economic level to insure that No one / young children would die from malnutrition and disease every year. What Does make For a 'modest lifestyle'?

Lots of people talk about Lots of things. God's Word says that same-sex for dating, marrying, physical intimacy is Wrong. And I don't know about medical attention being with held from gays. Then again -- when people Do choose to misuse their bodies' and contract sexually transmitted diseases. They keep on doing the same thing --working against their own body. That is more of a sexual addiction than 'love'.

And , is it Possible that sometimes 'gays' cause their own problems. Are they dressing, acting. in a way that draws undo attention to themselves?

What you're describing regarding Christian organizations reactions toward's gay people. I wouldn't call it 'bashing' , no. I'd call it defending Biblical standards. There was a situation where a homosexual couple were getting married and wanted a Christian bakery to make their cake. That particular bakery suggested they go to another bakery that probably Would. The same-sex couple made Such a Deal about that. They wanted that Christian owned bakery to be Forced to bake that cake. Now HOW is THAT ignoring the suffering of others? Is that same-sex couple 'suffering' because the Christian bakery would not make them a wedding cake? No. Not when they Could simply go to another bakery.

Why should Christians be okay with other's purposely acting in a way that they Know is an activity that is putrid in God's eyes. That He sees as an abomination? And I doubt that anyone would Know I was interested in same-sex intimacy.

Well -- Why are gays' being murdered? Okay -- IF I were a homosexual -- I would Not be in anyone's face regarding it. I would be acknowledging what God's Word says about it.

As far as "make Poverty history" -- well -- God's Word says that the poor will Always be amongst us. It's simply Not Possible to 'end poverty'. What's Causing the poverty? Lack of reading ability / maybe unwillingness to work in the 1st place/ using drugs and/ or alcohol and some times it's the economic environment.

 

[KingJ]

i agree with you about "intent", or as i see it the motivation behind our actions, it seems to me that there is no one "ticket" for salvation, some of Christs statements imply Faith, others works,

There is a ''one' 'ticket for salvation. It is truthful repentance Psalm 51:17. From day 1 this is all God has wanted from mankind. I look at how God visited Cain and said ''Cain where is your brother''.....''Cain the ground is stained with the blood of your brother''. God wanted Cain to confess and repent. Then we read Jesus saying in Luke 5:32 that He came to call sinners to repentance. Then in Revelations we see how the plagues are brought upon people on the earth in attempt to get them to repent, example in Rev 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries (drugs, intoxications) nor of their [sexual] immorality nor of their thefts.

Faith and works are separate issues and must not be confused with repentance. ''Saving'' faith in Jesus being Lord comes after we repent.

Once we are saved, we just need to daily examine ourselves to ensure we are 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Just in case we are not 1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

but above all there is the underlying Motivation of Love, without which we are truly lost Souls,...... and whilst i judge my actions , i never pronounce on my salvation, for i see that as Gods jurisdiction, Christ said to whom much is given, much will be required, i don't know how much is required of me, or of anyone, for there is always so much more i could do, but choose not to,...... which is why i would never say that anyone, whatever their sins, even homosexuality which you seem to regard as a sin worthy of Gods greatest Abhorrence, is condemned to Hell, for with God, everything is possible,.....

We should share our testimony of how we came to Jesus, at a minimum.

God cannot save a person who does not want to repent.

I guess you could say I am quick to type many words on the topic. It is due to these four reasons.

1. I used to be in all types of sexual sin before I was saved.
2. It is a mortal sin according to the bible. So I believe people practicing it are daily pushing the envelope with God. I see them as 'dire' cases.
3. It is not a sin against another person. So the ungodly don't really feel much conviction for it. So we need to be quite a bit more pro-active.
4. I grasp God's thinking on Sodom and Noah's flood.

With respect to pt 4. There is a simple reason behind Sodom and Noah's flood. Namely the balance of good and evil lob-sided toward evil. We cannot say that all those who drowned went to hell. Only God knows that. I believe many are saved just before they die. One has to be ''sold out'' to a love of sin with no real desire to ever repent to go to Hell. If we put ourselves in God's shoes we see society carrying on at large in a manner that displeases you. It is not a fitting environment for children to grow up in. So He brings swift destruction and change. Our society today is going the same direction. GLBT is wrong. They are influencing all our lives daily through media. Mortal sin is fast becoming a ''norm''. That should ring every alarm bell in a Christian. Anyone trying to silence that alarm bell is not of God.

We need to make sure we are not among those in Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[KingJ]

No, the point i'm making is tied to the thread of Homosexuality, its about the Hypocrisy of condemning one particular sin and ignoring others, of proclaiming that you follow Gods word but of cherry picking the bits to follow, you raised the issue of Gay marriage and baking cakes for homosexuals, would you have a similar problem with rich people being married in church, or of baking cakes for those that ignored the sufferings of others

Being rich is not a sin. Being boastful is. Vanity and boastful are not mortal sins. Homosexuality is.

There is another argument with respect to the baker. His rights were taken from him. It was an act of leftist socialism.

As for cherry picking homosexuality. I am not. I don't. I ''try'' un-biasedly obey 1 Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. But as for the unsaved we have 1 Cor 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

why is it that Homosexuality is raised by some Christians above other sins that Christ regarded as worthy of the worst condemnation, namely Hell

Maybe because those guilty of the other mortal sins are mostly in prison. Only 'continuing unrepentant' in sin gets you into hell. Mortal sins just point to having a greater love of sin. Being closer to being sold out to a love of sin. This is why people go to hell John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

and when Christians talk of Gays being murdered,

What Christians say this? Can you give examples please?

 

[KingJ]

when christians propose laws that would allow the witholding of medical services to gays purely on the basis of their sexuality,

That is happening where you are?

when people can be fired form their jobs by Christian organisations for being gay,

I feel it depends. If the job is teaching at Sunday school. Yes. If not, no. 1 Cor 5:10 tells us if we can't engage with them and help them as Christians we may as well leave the earth.

well i'd call the "bashing" wouldn't you, perhaps if you were on the receiving end of this " talk of repentance" you might see it a little differently,

I disagree. A nun found out what I was up to and told me I was going to hell. She gave me a hard time. I knew the nun was not God's mouthpiece. But her extreme disapproval of my lifestyle made me engage with God in my private time. God spoke back to me in love, warmth and put an anointing on me and in my room that ''no human'' could ever match. This is why I say, God converts us to Christianity.

There are good and bad Christians. What we don't want is '''non Christians calling themselves Christians'''. That ''Christian'' that says nothing. When he stands before God, he will wish he rather jumped on peoples toes and ''at least'' spoke out. If you can't wield the word of God with skill, it does not mean you don't wield it.

as for "missionary work" well perhaps in a way i did, i spent 10 years going round many different Churches trying to raise the issue of Compassion and Justice before i burnt out, i helped form a number of peace and Justice groups and was heavily involved with the "make Poverty History" campaign in 2005, but i'm not a great communicator, i'm not good with people, and in the end , well i just ran out of steam, but i didn't stop i now campaign through an internet based Group i run and bring my faith and beliefs to many other groups i'm a member of,

Wow, quite an impressive testimony. Thanks for sharing.

as for "Lavish lifestyles", and "Modesty", well with around 800 million men, women and children on Gods Earth barely surviving on less than $2 a day and with around 6 million young children dying from malnutrition and disease every year, i often wonder just how God views our "Modest lifestyles"?.

Agreed.

 

[KingJ]

he made it Crystal clear that the "rich" will not get into Heaven,

I don't see this in Matt 25 'Sheep and the Goats' . Can you quote the scripture you thinking of please.

in the "Seven Woes" he berates and condemns the religious leaders and the powerful for their Hypocrisy and Oppression, for everything that men value is an abomination in the sight of God,

True. But lets not put a full-stop there. Many scriptures point to degrees of abominations. As already discussed.

who amongst us daily repents of all their sins, i know i don't,

You don't need to daily repent. But you will desire prompt repentance if you are saved. Whenever a saved person sins, they will be convicted and desire repentance right there and then. It is like arguing with your wife. You have to make right else peace does not return to the house. We are in a live relationship with God.

as the Publican i regard myself as a miserable sinner unworthy of Gods forgiveness,

Do you look at yourself as someone who hates or loves sin? Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.