What Is HELL ?

[Br. Bear]

When this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Corinthians 15:54-57

note: 'corruptible' and 'mortal'

 

[Br. Bear]

When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.
Proverbs 11:7

 

[Br. Bear]

As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.
Proverbs 11:19

 

[Br. Bear]

In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Proverbs 12:28

 

[Butch5]

Greetings @Butch5



thanks Harry.

Patience is listed in the fruit of the Spirit.


Bless you ....><>

You're welcome my friend!

 

[Bill Taylor]

I seriously doubt that the Ruah is teaching the Patonic Dualism that you're espousing here. So, I would encourage you to check the source of your teaching. The Bible teaches resurrection, not reincarnation. You've got a mixture of philosophies here. Platonic Dualism and reincarnation.

Platonic Dualism

www.webpages.uidaho.edu

No, you're reading into my post what is not there, just as with Ruah you do the scriptures. Your posts here would make scripture contain illogical content and such is not true. The Great White Throne Judgment is the judgment of the Lost and if you believe in Extermination, the Judgment is illogical and not of our Elohim at all. Yehovah always makes perfect sense when one does not do as men have and we cast all the numbers away and read the Letters and He spoke them.

 

[Bill Taylor]

You're welcome my friend!

Jude 1:7 ESV Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.​

How can they suffer eternal fire If the Image of God in them is not eternal. I have chosen a single verse out of what must be a hundred. This eternal punishment is, perhaps, the most taught subject in the scriptures,

 

[Butch5]

Jude 1:7 ESV Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.​

How can they suffer eternal fire If the Image of God in them is not eternal. I have chosen a single verse out of what must be a hundred. This eternal punishment is, perhaps, the most taught subject in the scriptures,

What is the image of God in the m, Bill?

 

[Butch5]

No, you're reading into my post what is not there, just as with Ruah you do the scriptures. Your posts here would make scripture contain illogical content and such is not true. The Great White Throne Judgment is the judgment of the Lost and if you believe in Extermination, the Judgment is illogical and not of our Elohim at all. Yehovah always makes perfect sense when one does not do as men have and we cast all the numbers away and read the Letters and He spoke them.

Its funny you mentioned being illogical. The doctrine you're espousing makes no sense. It accuses God of lying. It's pagan at its source. It contracts the Scriptures, is completely illogical and it's based in Greek mythology. But other than that.

 

[Bill Taylor]

What is the image of God in the m, Bill?

The image is not that we all look like Him, there are too many different appearance factors in the Human Race leaving that image to exist in the Spiritual Realm.

Revelation 21:1-27​

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” ...​

Humans do not actually die, they leave a dead carcass behind but we do not expire. I give you one verse from The Revelation but there are about fifty to analyze or better yet, accept the leading presence of Ruah and allow Him to teach you on this. The image of Yeshuah is an invisible spirit that is not viewable in this space/time continuum.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Its funny you mentioned being illogical. The doctrine you're espousing makes no sense. It accuses God of lying. It's pagan at its source. It contracts the Scriptures, is completely illogical and it's based in Greek mythology. But other than that.

Your opinion does not ever supersede scripture! I offer you scripture that is in both minor and major contextual agreement with all other scripture. I'm guessing because you slam opinion down like a Domino Player scoring 25 points on the last play of a hand and never or almost never support your views with scripture and never with any context. Then you accuse me, without grounds of mimicking your actions.

 

[Butch5]

Your opinion does not ever supersede scripture! I offer you scripture that is in both minor and major contextual agreement with all other scripture. I'm guessing because you slam opinion down like a Domino Player scoring 25 points on the last play of a hand and never or almost never support your views with scripture and never with any context. Then you accuse me, without grounds of mimicking your actions.

Yeah, you used Scripture in context. However, you misunderstand that Scripture. The same guy who wrote that passage of Scripture you quoted also wrote that if there is no resurrection those who had previously died in Christ had already perished. That hardly sounds like they're living in Heaven waiting on spiritual bodies.

"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished"
The Holy Bible: King James Version.

If there is no resurrection, those who had died had already perished. Since your understanding of the passage you posted runs afoul of what Paul said here it's quite obvious that the understanding you presented is incorrect.

 

[Butch5]

The image is not that we all look like Him, there are too many different appearance factors in the Human Race leaving that image to exist in the Spiritual Realm.

Revelation 21:1-27​

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” ...​

Humans do not actually die, they leave a dead carcass behind but we do not expire. I give you one verse from The Revelation but there are about fifty to analyze or better yet, accept the leading presence of Ruah and allow Him to teach you on this. The image of Yeshuah is an invisible spirit that is not viewable in this space/time continuum.

Ah, the very opposite of what the Scriptures teach us. You spoke of the Ruah teaching you. The Ruah doesn't teach wrongly. From Webster's

image 1 of 2​

noun​

im·age ˈi-mij ​

Synonyms of image
1
a
: a visual representation of something: such as
(1)
: a likeness of an object produced on a photographic material
(2)
: a picture produced on an electronic display (such as a television or computer screen)

Scripture tells is that Jesus is the image of the unseen God. Jesus was seen. The who point of an image is for it to be seen.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

The Holy Bible: King James Version.


God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The Holy Bible: King James Version.


Sorry, we can't just make it up as we go. So, what is the image of God?

 

[MedicBravo]

Technically, no. The first "death" doesn't do away with anyone.
Everybody lives forever. Even those who face the second death live forever.
There are plenty of scriptures about this. The question is, where do you spend that eternity?

Everyone gets resurrected. everyone comes back to life. Even non-Christians.

John 5:27; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Everyone dies. Even Christians. But no one stays dead forever.

John 12:24; "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
1Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

The question isn't will you live again, it's what will be your address?

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

The Final Judgement
(Queue Europe's "The Final Countdown)

 

[Bill Taylor]

Yeah, you used Scripture in context. However, you misunderstand that Scripture. The same guy who wrote that passage of Scripture you quoted also wrote that if there is no resurrection those who had previously died in Christ had already perished. That hardly sounds like they're living in Heaven waiting on spiritual bodies.

"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished"
The Holy Bible: King James Version.

If there is no resurrection, those who had died had already perished. Since your understanding of the passage you posted runs afoul of what Paul said here it's quite obvious that the understanding you presented is incorrect.

Your response is so far out of scriptural that all I can say is it is dumb. It completely ignores the context it s rooted in.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Ah, the very opposite of what the Scriptures teach us. You spoke of the Ruah teaching you. The Ruah doesn't teach wrongly. From Webster's

image 1 of 2​

noun​

im·age ˈi-mij​

Synonyms of image
1
a
: a visual representation of something: such as
(1)
: a likeness of an object produced on a photographic material
(2)
: a picture produced on an electronic display (such as a television or computer screen)

Scripture tells is that Jesus is the image of the unseen God. Jesus was seen. The who point of an image is for it to be seen.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

The Holy Bible: King James Version.


God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The Holy Bible: King James Version.


Sorry, we can't just make it up as we go. So, what is the image of God?

Webster's is not scripture and I'm through, you are either stupid or pulling my leg.

 

[Butch5]

Your response is so far out of scriptural that all I can say is it is dumb. It completely ignores the context it s rooted in.

Ok, Bill. I can see you're not be serious. It's been real!

 

[Butch5]

Webster's is not scripture and I'm through, you are either stupid or pulling my leg.

No, Webster isn't Scripture. But it does deal with English which is what you're writing in.

 

[KingJ]

Sure, here's the link.

Some food for thought for my Christian friends. We all know that the Bible says that God is Love. The point is that it says He "is" love. He's the very definition of it. However, many Christians struggle with the idea that God torments the wicked for all of eternity in hell. How does one reconcile a God who "is" love with the idea of Eternal Conscious Torment in hell? What if that actually wasn't the case? What if Eternal Conscious Torment isn't what the Bible actually teaches? Wouldn't it be great to witness to the lost and not have to try to explain the concept of eternal torment in hell? Well, you can. My work below looks at this subject extensively and I believe conclusively puts an end to the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment. We serve a God of love.

Eternal Conscious Torment (Hell No)

https://www.asuswebstorage.com/navigate/s/58FC5D9B39B54718B18F6A505194FC2E4

I can promise you that ending someone's existence is not love. Honoring the choice of their decision to not repent of their sins and creating a place for them to continue to live, is.

No free will is evil. Imagine killing a lady that refuses to marry you. If you don't think it's evil, you have clearly not thought on it.

God is good in that He creates a home for the wicked.

The problem with eternal torment is not with scripture or God's " love", it is with assumptions arrived at by those who cherry pick verses on hell, as I have tried to explain in this forum on a million occasions .

Most envision a brazen bull type suffering for the wicked in hell after reading verses stating "fire" in hell. Jesus gives us an idea of suffering in fire in Luke 16 and it is far from a brazen bull. We can expect the most humane punishment and life for the wicked that is possible. God does not repay evil with evil.

God is not only "love" , He is also just and righteous in all His ways job 34:12, Psalm 145:17.

 

[KingJ]

Guys, we really need to address the elephant in the room. The doctrine of eternal torment requires that the wicked live eternally.

Paul tells us that the Father alone has immortality.

I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Tim 6:13-16)King James Version.

In this passage we see that the only one who has immortality is the one no man has seen nor can see. That's the Father. That means that no human has immortality. Paul also said that God gives life to all things. It's present tense, is giving. That means that everything that is alive, is alive because God presently is giving it life. Since the Father is the source of all life and is the only one who is immortal, no one can live apart from God giving them life. So, unless someone can show where in Scripture God promised eternal life to the wicked, it's not there, the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment is false.

The elephant is created by your belief. As you believe death = annihilation, you have to believe life = living / no annihilation.

When you understand that death is not annihilation, you will understand that life is not simply "living".