What is hell?

[Rockerduck]

Hello,
My saying is " Born twice and die once or Born once and die twice. I don't worry about Hell because I have my salvation through Jesus Christ.

J. Vernon Mcgee " All of mankind is divided between the ‘saints’ and the ‘ain’ts.’ If you ‘ain't’ in Christ, then you are an ‘ain’t.’ If you are in Christ, then you are a saint..

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[PloughBoy]

I like this Discourse By "Flavius Josephus" The Jewish Historian about "HADES" it inspired me over "40 years ago" and still to day. I am avid reader and GOD gifted me, for I prayed many prayers that he would gift me, to read about His WORD. and make it Living and come alive in My SOUL. and when I sleep let me walk the STREETS of JERUSALEM while I dream Yes I did! Ask and you will receive, And i am quite sure he was please with my request.
I have walked the dusty ones and The one PRAVED WITH GOLD! IN MY DREAMS AND A VISION! ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE!

Flavius Josephus, the Jewish Historian
1. NOW as to Hades, wherein the souls of the of the good things they see, and rejoice in the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, ill which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners.

2. In this region there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, whereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon all men; when the unjust, and those that have been disobedient to God, and have given honor to such idols as have been the vain operations of the hands of men as to God himself, shall be adjudged to this everlasting punishment, as having been the causes of defilement; while the just shall obtain an incorruptible and never-fading kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in the same place wherein the unjust are confined.

3. For there is one descent into this region, at whose gate we believe there stands an archangel with an host; which gate when those pass through that are conducted down by the angels appointed over souls, they do not go the same way; but the just are guided to the right hand, and are led with hymns, sung by the angels appointed over that place, unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning of the world; not constrained by necessity, but ever enjoying the prospect of the good things they see, and rejoic in the expectation of those new enjoyments which will be peculiar to every one of them, and esteeming those things beyond what we have here; with whom there is no place of toil, no burning heat, no piercing cold, nor are any briers there; but the countenance of the and of the just, which they see, always smiles them, while they wait for that rest and eternal new life in heaven, which is to succeed this region. This place we call The Bosom of Abraham.

4. But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it.

5. This is the discourse concerning Hades, wherein the souls of all men are confined until a proper season, which God hath determined, when he will make a resurrection of all men from the dead, not procuring a transmigration of souls from one body to another, but raising again those very bodies, which you Greeks, seeing to be dissolved, do not believe [their resurrection]. But learn not to disbelieve it; for while you believe that the soul is created, and yet is made immortal by God, according to the doctrine of Plato, and this in time, be not incredulous; but believe that God is able, when he hath raised to life that body which was made as a compound of the same elements, to make it immortal; for it must never be said of God, that he is able to do some things, and unable to do others. We have therefore believed that the body will be raised again; for although it be dissolved, it is not perished; for the earth receives its remains, and preserves them; and while they are like seed, and are mixed among the more fruitful soil, they flourish, and what is sown is indeed sown bare grain, but at the mighty sound of God the Creator, it will sprout up, and be raised in a clothed and glorious condition, though not before it has been dissolved, and mixed [with the earth]. So that we have not rashly believed the resurrection of the body; for although it be dissolved for a time on account of the original transgression, it exists still, and is cast into the earth as into a potter's furnace, in order to be formed again, not in order to rise again such as it was before, but in a state of purity, and so as never to he destroyed any more. And to every body shall its own soul be restored. And when it hath clothed itself with that body, it will not be subject to misery, but, being itself pure, it will continue with its pure body, and rejoice with it, with which it having walked righteously now in this world, and never having had it as a snare, it will receive it again with great gladness. But as for the unjust, they will receive their bodies not changed, not freed from diseases or distempers, nor made glorious, but with the same diseases wherein they died; and such as they were in their unbelief, the same shall they be when they shall be faithfully judged.

6. For all men, the just as well as the unjust, shall be brought before God the word: for to him hath the Father committed all judgment : and he, in order to fulfill the will of his Father, shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ. For Minos and Rhadamanthus are not the judges, as you Greeks do suppose, but he whom God and the Father hath glorified: CONCERNING WHOM WE HAVE ELSEWHERE GIVEN A MORE PARTICULAR ACCOUNT, FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO SEEK AFTER TRUTH. This person, exercising the righteous judgment of the Father towards all men, hath prepared a just sentence for every one, according to his works; at whose judgment-seat when all men, and angels, and demons shall stand, they will send forth one voice, and say, JUST IS THY JUDGMENT; the rejoinder to which will bring a just sentence upon both parties, by giving justly to those that have done well an everlasting fruition; but allotting to the lovers of wicked works eternal punishment. To these belong the unquenchable fire, and that without end, and a certain fiery worm, never dying, and not destroying the body, but continuing its eruption out of the body with never-ceasing grief: neither will sleep give ease to these men, nor will the night afford them comfort; death will not free them from their punishment, nor will the interceding prayers of their kindred profit them; for the just are no longer seen by them, nor are they thought worthy of remembrance. But the just shall remember only their righteous actions, whereby they have attained the heavenly kingdom, in which there is no sleep, no sorrow, no corruption, no care, no night, no day measured by time, no sun driven in his course along the circle of heaven by necessity, and measuring out the bounds and conversions of the seasons, for the better illumination of the life of men; no moon decreasing and increasing, or introducing a variety of seasons, nor will she then moisten the earth; no burning sun, no Bear turning round [the pole], no Orion to rise, no wandering of innumerable stars. The earth will not then be difficult to be passed over, nor will it he hard to find out the court of paradise, nor will there be any fearful roaring of the sea, forbidding the passengers to walk on it; even that will be made easily passable to the just, though it will not be void of moisture. Heaven will not then be uninhabitable by men, and it will not be impossible to discover the way of ascending thither. The earth will not be uncultivated, nor require too much labor of men, but will bring forth its fruits of its own accord, and will be well adorned with them. There will be no more generations of wild beasts, nor will the substance of the rest of the animals shoot out any more; for it will not produce men, but the number of the righteous will continue, and never fail, together with righteous angels, and spirits [of God], and with his word, as a choir of righteous men and women that never grow old, and continue in an incorruptible state, singing hymns to God, who hath advanced them to that happiness, by the means of a regular institution of life; with whom the whole creation also will lift up a perpetual hymn from corruption, to incorruption, as glorified by a splendid and pure spirit. It will not then be restrained by a bond of necessity, but with a lively freedom shall offer up a voluntary hymn, and shall praise him that made them, together with the angels, and spirits, and men now freed from all bondage.

7. And now, if you Gentiles will be persuaded by these motives, and leave your vain imaginations about your pedigrees, and gaining of riches, and philosophy, and will not spend your time about subtleties of words, and thereby lead your minds into error, and if you will apply your ears to the hearing of the inspired prophets, the interpreters both of God and of his word, and will believe in God, you shall both be partakers of these things, and obtain the good things that are to come; you shall see the ascent unto the immense heaven plainly, and that kingdom which is there. For what God hath now concealed in silence [will be then made manifest,] what neither eye hath seen, nor ear hath heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love him.

8. In whatsoever ways I shall find you, in them shall I judge you entirely: so cries the END of all things. And he who hath at first lived a virtuous lift, but towards the latter end falls into vice, these labors by him before endured shall be altogether vain and unprofitable, even as in a play, brought to an ill catastrophe. Whosoever shall have lived wickedly and luxuriously may repent; however, there will be need of much time to conquer an evil habit, and even after repentance his whole life must be guarded with great care and diligence, after the manner of a body, which, after it hath been a long time afflicted with a distemper, requires a stricter diet and method of living; for though it may be possible, perhaps, to break off the chain of our irregular affections at once, yet our amendment cannot be secured without the grace of God, the prayers of good men, the help of the brethren, and our own sincere repentance and constant care. It is a good thing not to sin at all; it is also good, having sinned, to repent; as it is best to have health always, but it is a good thing to recover from a distemper. To God be glory and dominion for ever and ever Amen.

 

[Beetow]

• Judg 17:1-6 . . A man named Micah lived in the hill country of Ephraim. One day
he said to his mother: I heard you curse the thief who stole eleven hundred pieces
of silver from you. Well, here they are. I was the one who took them. The Lord
bless you for admitting it; his mother replied.

. . . He returned the money to her, and she said: I now dedicate these silver coins
to The Lord. In honor of my son, I will have an image carved and an idol cast. So
his mother took two hundred of the silver coins to a silversmith, who made them
into an image and an idol. And these were placed in Micah's house.

Micah's mother (I'll call her Ophelia) broke the very first commandment of the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy by making statuettes to represent God. (Ex 20:2-4)

The interesting thing about Ophelia's religious confusion is that Jehovah was her
God; but in the wrong way; viz: her religion was a mixture of truth and error. The
sad part is; Ophelia's mixed up religious beliefs didn't lead only just herself into
disfavor with The Lord, no, it led her offspring into disfavor too.

Christians sometimes extol the mothers of the saints. Well let me tell you
something about mothers. They may mean well; but just because they are mothers
doesn't make them right. Ophelia is a timeless case in point. Mothers are the best
Judas Goats one can imagine. They can lead their children to disaster with far more
effectiveness than the demon world because mothers have the advantage of trust.
Kids are naturally inclined to rely upon their parents, so they are easy victims of
misinformation when the source of that misinformation are moms and dads-- most
especially moms.

You know what can be even worse than going to Hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you. Can you just imagine the anguish that mothers
feel in the netherworld knowing they brought up their children to follow an ideology
whose pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with brimstone instead of gold. How do
mothers bear up under something like that on their conscience?
_

 

[Beetow]

• Rev 16:8-9 . .The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was
given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and
they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused
to repent and glorify Him.

• Rev 16:10-11 . .The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast,
and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony
and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they
refused to repent of what they had done.

You know what's missing in those two scenarios? The element of fright is missing.
The recipients of those acts of God actually get angry and resentful instead of
scared.

Back in the sixth chapter, people panic and actually pray to be buried alive rather
than face the wrath of God. But apparently by the time of the sixteenth chapter,
they're over it. Well; no surprise there.

The first time I heard of Jesus' return I got nervous because, at the time, I had a
lot to answer for. But the nervousness soon passed, and I became indignant
because I don't like being made afraid; so I can sort of understand the people's
change of mood between the sixth chapter and the sixteenth. Hell is no doubt
populated by quite a large number of very outraged folk.
_

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

what do we do with this....


Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "they burn in hell"


Bless you ....><>

 

[Beetow]

what do we do with this...

Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "they burn in hell"

• Gal 6:7 . . Don't be deceived into thinking God is a silly old fool.

A silly old fool is a senior citizen that people know they can mistreat and/or take
advantage of without fear of complaint, resistance, or reprisal.
_

 

[Beetow]

The way I figure it: seeing as how God is an intelligent, mature adult (so to speak)
who's never petty, nor capricious, nor biased, nor fickle, nor impulsive, nor
unreasonable, and takes no kind of sick pleasure in causing people harm; then God
must be just as stuck with Hell and can't make it go away with any more ease than
we can.

For reasons I have yet to even guess, Hell is unavoidable even for God because it's
the right thing to do; i.e. it has to be utilized for punishment in order to satisfy a
level of justice that our limited little minds may never be able to fully grasp.

• Ps 145:17 . .The Lord is righteous in all His ways
_

 

[Butch5]

Just be careful not to be selective on Hebrew words and "spin" it to fit your theology @Butch5
You will be surprised to know the majority of Modern day Jews are ignorant re our New Testament, so there goes your argument "Ask the Jews"
There are plenty rabbinical resources to be found, if you know where to look, but then, I don't need Rashi or any rabbinical scholar to tell me how to read my Bible brother.

TEACHER, DIVINE
(1) Christ as
Mat_4:23; Mat_5:2; Mat_7:29; Mar_6:34; Luk_4:15; Luk_5:3; Joh_3:2; Joh_7:14; Joh_8:2
--SEE Instruction, INSTRUCTION
Exposition of the Scriptures, TEACHER, DIVINE
(2) God as
Exo_4:15; Deu_4:36; Psa_25:12; Psa_32:8; Psa_71:17; Psa_94:10; Isa_2:3; Isa_28:26
Isa_48:17; Isa_54:13; Jer_32:33; Mic_4:2
--SEE Instruction, INSTRUCTION
(3) Christ Expounds the Scriptures
Mat_13:37; Mat_24:33; Mar_4:34; Luk_8:11; Luk_24:27
(4) The Teaching of Christ
Mat_7:28; Mar_4:2; Joh_7:16; 2Jo_1:9
--SEE Words of Christ, WORDS OF CHRIST
& WORDS OF CHRIST
-- "Spirit" as. See HOLY SPIRIT

Not being facetious with you, but I do love a good debate.
Shalom
Johann

Actually, my argument stands. When I said ask the Jews, I didn't mean call a buddy in Israel. I meant we do the research and find out what the word meant in ancient times. The times before Christianity. That way we can find out what it meant without any Christian influence.

 

[Butch5]

Where did Paul say the "law" ended? The law in it's entirety, or the ceremonial laws?
Paul, speaking in the context of Jew and Gentile being brought together, declares that the "law of commandments" were abolished.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two." (Ephesians 2:15)

Exactly what law (or part of law) is that which is 'expressed in ordinances', and abolished? Is he referring to the Mosaic system in its entirety, or does it only refer to the ceremonial aspects pertaining to feasts and temple sacrifices?

Cannot be the Mosaic law.....Some Mosaic laws, such as the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20: 3-17; Deuteronomy 5: 7-21), are eternal in nature and are still in full force today. Other Mosaic laws were criminal or civil and were applied by the government.
The end of the law (telos nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation (Rom_6:14; Rom_9:31; Eph_2:15; Col_2:14) as in Luk_16:16. Christ is the goal or aim of the law (Gal_3:24). Christ is the fulfilment of the law (Mat_5:17; Rom_13:10; 1Ti_1:5). But here (Denney) Paul’s main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for “every one that believeth” whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.
The end of the law (τέλος νόμου)
First in the sentence as the emphatic point of thought. Expositors differ as to the sense. 1. The aim. Either that the intent of the law was to make men righteous, which was accomplished in Christ, or that the law led to Him as a pedagogue (Gal_3:24). 2. The fulfillment, as Mat_5:17. 3. The termination. To believers in Christ the law has no longer legislative authority to say, “Do this and live; do this or die” (Morison). The last is preferable. Paul is discussing two materially exclusive systems, the one based on doing, the other on believing. The system of faith, represented by Christ, brings to an end and excludes the system of law; and the Jews, in holding by the system of law, fail of the righteousness which is by faith. Compare Gal_2:16; Gal_3:2-14.
Vincent.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Just to put it into context for you...so where, in Scripture, did Paul said the Mosaic law ended?

As to olam, The Hebrew word olam means “for a long time, always, forever.” El Olam thus reveals God as “the Everlasting God,” without beginning or end.

Is YHVH "only to the horizon?" [ Whatever that means, since Olam means "everlasting"]
Hebrew words used for space are also used for time. The Hebrew word qedem means "east" but is also the same word for the "past." The Hebrew word olam literally means "beyond the horizon." When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as "eternity" meaning a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever," but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further."

Clear as daylight, Olam/
עֹולָ֔ם


="forever and ever, eternity, so, "beyond the horizon" is a metaphor for eternity

Ancient: A distant time in the past or future, as a time hidden from the present. [freq. 439] |kjv: ever, everlasting, old, perpetual, evermore, never, time, ancient, world, always, alway, long, more| {str: 5769}

Here, you can listen to the different viewpoints re everlasting Hell.

We are to rightly divide the Scriptures, and not "redefine" according to what we may believe to be true, based on our biases and eisegeses.
HEBREW WORD STUDIES
עוֹלָם 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' Strong's 5769
Hebrew Word Studies Index || Search this website || Greek Word Studies Index

This Hebrew word study uses a Greek Unicode font and a Hebrew Unicode font and is printable.

HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT
Introduction 1.1
#1.1 Hebrew word study on 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' עוֹלָם Strong's 5769 Genesis to Deuteronomy
GREEK NEW TESTAMENT
#2.1 Scriptures for 'aion' meaning 'age' or 'ever' αἰών Strong's 165
#2.2 Greek Word Study on 'aionios' meaning 'eternal' or 'everlasting' αἰώνιος Strong's 166
Introduction 1.1
This bible study is about the meaning of the Hebrew word עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting', or 'age-lasting' and gives every verse where "olam" appears from Genesis to Deuteronomy. To obtain a true understanding of this word these scriptures need to be meditated on and notes made of their meaning in different contexts. This requires putting scriptures together where they seem to have a similar meaning, and then meditating even more. The truth will be revealed by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to guide us into all truth (John 16:13). Wherever this word olam appears in the Hebrew, the translation of it is highlighted with yellow. In Hebrew the suffixes and some prepositions are added to the basic word to enhance the meaning, and where this has been done the meaning of the suffix or preposition has been included in highlighted text. Every blessing be to those who seek the truth of God's word.

#1.1 Scriptures for עוֹלָם 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' Strong's 5769 Genesis to Deuteronomy
Genesis 3:22 And Yahweh God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
6:3 And Yahweh said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of past time, men of renown.
9:12 And God said, This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:
9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
13:15 For all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed for all time.
17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you in their generations for an age-lasting covenant, to be a God to you, and to your seed after you.
17:8 And I will give to you, and to your seed after you, the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an age-lasting possession; and I will be their God.
17:13 He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your money, must be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an age-lasting covenant.
17:19 And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed; and you shall call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an age-lasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of Yahweh, the everlasting God.
48:4 And said to me, Behold, I will make you fruitful, and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people; and will give this land to your seed after you for an age-lasting possession.
49:26 The blessings of your father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors to the utmost bound of the age-lasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brethren.

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover to Moses, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial to all generations.
12:14 And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to Yahweh throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for all time.
12:17 And you shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall you observe this day in your generations by an ordinance in future.
12:24 And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons for all time.
14:13 And Moses said to the people, Do not be afraid, stand still, and see the salvation of Yahweh, which he will show to you to day: for the Egyptians whom you have seen to day, you shall see them again no more for life.
15:18 Yahweh shall reign for ever and ever.
19:9 And Yahweh said to Moses, Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for life. And Moses told the words of the people to Yahweh.
21:6 Then his master shall bring him to the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or to the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for life.
27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation outside the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before Yahweh: it shall be a statute for an age to their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
28:43 And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in to the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near to the altar to minister in the holy place: that they do not bear iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for all time to him and his seed after him.
29:9 And you shall gird them with sashes, Aaron and his sons, and put the hats on them: and the priest’s office shall be theirs for an all time statute: and you shall consecrate Aaron and his sons.
29:28 And it shall be Aaron’s and his sons’ by a statute for all time from the children of Israel: for it is a heave offering: and it shall be a heave offering from the children of Israel of the sacrifice of their peace offerings, even their heave offering to Yahweh.
30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they do not die: and it shall be a statute for all time to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an all time covenant.
31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for all time: for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give to your seed, and they shall inherit it for all time.
40:15 And you shall anoint them, as you anointed their father, that they may minister to me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be a continual priesthood throughout their generations.

Leviticus 3:17 it shall be a continual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that you eat neither fat nor blood.
6:18 All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for all time in your generations concerning the offerings of Yahweh made by fire: every one who touches them shall be holy.
6:22 And the priest of his sons who is anointed in his place shall offer it: it is a statute for all time to Yahweh; it shall be wholly burnt.
7:34 For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons by a statute for all time from among the children of Israel.
7:36 Which Yahweh commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute for all time throughout their generations.
10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die: it shall be a statute for life throughout your generations:
10:15 The heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings of fat made by fire, to wave it for a wave offering before Yahweh; and it shall be yours, and your sons’ with you, by a statute for all time; as Yahweh has commanded.
16:29 And this shall be a statute for all time to you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it is one of your own country, or a stranger who sojourns among you:
16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before Yahweh.
16:31 It shall be a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your souls, by a statute for all time.
16:34 And this shall be a longlasting statute to you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as Yahweh commanded Moses.
17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices to demons, after whom they have gone a *******. This shall be a statute for all time to them throughout their generations.
23:14 And you shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
23:21 And you shall proclaim on the same day, that it may be a holy convocation to you: you shall do no servile work in it: it shall be a statute for all time in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
23:31 You shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
23:41 And you shall keep it a feast to Yahweh seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for all time in your generations: you shall celebrate it in the seventh month.
24:3 Outside the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening to the morning before Yahweh continually: it shall be a statute for all time in your generations.
24:8 Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before Yahweh continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an all time covenant.
24:9 And it shall be Aaron’s and his sons’; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy to him of the offerings of Yahweh made by fire by an all time statute.
25:32 Nevertheless the cities of the Levites, and the houses of the cities of their possession, may the Levites redeem at any time.
25:34 But the field of the suburbs of their cities may not be sold; for it is their all time possession.
25:46 And you shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your slaves for life: but over your brethren the children of Israel, you shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Numbers 10:8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for all time throughout your generations.
15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger who sojourns with you, an ordinance for all time in your generations: as you are, so shall the stranger be before Yahweh.
18:8 And Yahweh spoke to Aaron, Behold, I also have given you the charge of my heave offerings of all the sanctified things of the children of Israel; to you have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to your sons, by an ordinance for all time.
18:11 And this is yours; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them to you, and to your sons and to your daughters with you, by a statute for all time: every one who is clean in your house shall eat of it.
18:19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to Yahweh, have I given you, and your sons and your daughters with you, by a statute for all time: it is a covenant of salt for all time before Yahweh to you and to your seed with you.
18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
19:10 And he who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be to the children of Israel, and to the stranger who sojourns among them, for a statute for all time.
19:21 And it shall be a continual statute to them, that he who sprinkles the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he who touches the water of separation shall be unclean until evening.
25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an all time priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children always!
12:28 Observe and hear all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you, and with your children after you always, when you do that which is good and right in the sight of Yahweh your God.
13:16 And you shall gather all the plunder of it into the midst of its street, and shall burn with fire the city, and all its plunder every bit, for Yahweh your God: and it shall be a heap for all time; it shall not be built again.
15:17 Then you shall take an aul, and thrust it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant for life. And also to your maid-servant you shall do likewise.
23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of Yahweh; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of Yahweh for life:
23:6 You shall not seek their peace nor their prosperity all your days for all time.
28:46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and for a wonder, and upon your seed for all time.
29:29 The secret things belong to Yahweh our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for all time, that we may do all the words of this law.
32:7 Remember the days of old time, consider the years of many generations: ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you.
32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
33:15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the age-lasting hills,
33:27 The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy.

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

This bible study is about the meaning of the Hebrew word עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting', and gives every verse where 'olam' appears.

www.logosapostolic.org

Shalom
Johann

Firstly, I gave the ordinances. Paul said Christ abolished them, thus they are not everlasting.
Secondly, you asked where did Paul say the Law ended? Here.

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Heb 7:11–13.

Thirdly, I'm not interested in watching a video of people's views on a false doctrine.

You can claim, as the others do, and post the "opinions" of commentators. However, that doesn't make it correct. The bottom line is that Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles spoke of the end of the aion. Jesus even spoke of an aion to come. If aioin means eternity, how can there be another one after this one, if this one doesn't end You wrote this long post, but you didn't address the elephant in the room. How can something that ends be eternal? The very definition of eternal is unending. How then can something that ends be eternal?

 

[Butch5]

Just gave you the meaning for Olam, and it means "forever and ever/eternity" which is not "purgatory"
Shalom
Johann.

No, you gave me opinions of people who think it means eternal. However, as I pointed out, that position defies logic. Therefore, it is irrational.

 

[Butch5]

Greetings all,

what do we do with this....


Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "they burn in hell"


Bless you ....><>

The contradiction is glaring.

 

[Butch5]

If people would just believe their Bibles instead of pastors, theologians, and commentators these issues would resolve themselves. Eternal torment requires that one live for eternity.

Paul said,

13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 1 Ti 6:13–16.

Paul said the one that no one can see or can see is the "ONLY" one who has immortality. The one no one has seen or can see, is the Father. Paul says that He alone has immortality. That means that man is not immortal and will die. Since he will die, he cannot suffer eternal torment.

 

[Johann]

Firstly, I gave the ordinances. Paul said Christ abolished them, thus they are not everlasting.
Secondly, you asked where did Paul say the Law ended? Here.

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Heb 7:11–13.

Thirdly, I'm not interested in watching a video of people's views on a false doctrine.

You can claim, as the others do, and post the "opinions" of commentators. However, that doesn't make it correct. The bottom line is that Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles spoke of the end of the aion. Jesus even spoke of an aion to come. If aioin means eternity, how can there be another one after this one, if this one doesn't end You wrote this long post, but you didn't address the elephant in the room. How can something that ends be eternal? The very definition of eternal is unending. How then can something that ends be eternal?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The priesthood being changed (metatithemenēs tēs hierosunēs). Genitive absolute with present passive participle of metatithēmi, old word to transfer (Gal_1:6).
A change (metathesis). Old substantive from metatithēmi. In N.T. only in Heb. (Heb_7:12; Heb_11:5; Heb_12:27). God’s choice of another kind of priesthood for his Son, left the Levitical line off to one side, forever discounted, passed by “the order of Aaron” (tēn taxin Aarōn).


A change (μετάθεσις)
A transfer to a new basis. Only in Hebrews. See Heb_11:5; Heb_12:27. The inferiority of the Levitical priesthood is inferred from the fact that another priesthood was promised. If perfection was possible at all under the Mosaic economy, it must come through the Levitical priesthood, since that priesthood was, in a sense, the basis of the law. The whole legal system centered in it. The fundamental idea of the law was that of a people united with God. Sin, the obstacle to this ideal union, was dealt with through the priesthood. If the law failed to effect complete fellowship with God, the priesthood was shown to be a failure, and must be abolished; and the change of the priesthood involved the abolition of the entire legal system.


Heb 7:11 Now if shleimut (completeness) had been attainable through the Kehunah of Levi--for under it came the Mattan Torah (giving of the Torah) to the Am Brit --what further need would there have been to speak of another KOHEN arising "according to the order of Malki-Tzedek” TEHILLIM 110:4) rather than "al divrati Aharon"?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a "changing of the guard" of the Kehunah (Priesthood), this behechrach (necessarily) also affects the Torah [Isa 42:4].
Heb 7:13 For the One about whom these things are said belonged to a different shevet (tribe), from which no one has officiated at the Mizbe'ach.
Heb 7:14 For it is ugeret (easily seen, evident) that Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Adoneinu was descended from Yehudah, and in connection with that shevet (tribe), Moshe Rabbeinu said nothing about kohanim.
Heb 7:15 And it is even more evident if another Kohen arises resembling Malki-Tzedek,
OJB

This scripture reference have nothing to do with Olam brother, but a change of priesthood.
As for reputable commentaries, nothing wrong with that, eat the chicken and spit out the bones.
Me personally, don't believe in the "creeds" of modern day Christianity.
God bless
Johann

 

[KingJ]

Greetings all,

what do we do with this....


Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "they burn in hell"


Bless you ....><>

As Christians whose ''only'' job is to be Christ's ambassador's, 'we get the story right' .

Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "God's rules are all based on loving your neighbor as yourself and honoring God. So, not 'following His rules', makes you a wicked person.''
Son replies, ''So what does your loving God do with the wicked?''
Mother answers ''God loves the sinner but not their sin. He gives them all an eternal home."
Son replies ''So why is there fire there, do they burn?''
Mother replies ''Yes, all sin needs a punishment. But the fire there is not the same as the fire we know. The Bible tells us that the rich man could hold an intellectual conversation and asked only for a drop of water on his tongue''. We also know that God is true to His word on punishment and will only give each a punishment according to what they do / did Rom 2:6 as He is righteous and just God Psalm 89:14''.

 

[KingJ]

The contradiction is glaring.

Well that story is not the correct depiction of scripture. A god bashing example I expect to find on atheist forums.

But, how is your belief any better?

Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "God kills them in a fire in hell"

 

[Beetow]

The global death toll due to the Corona virus as of 10/31/2022 is in the
neighborhood of 6,594,057. That represents approximately .083% of the world's
recent population of 7,930,157,146 people, which is not even one percent; in point
of fact, a good deal less than one percent.

In the future, Heaven will cause the world to turn on itself in an apparent attempt
to self-destruct with weapons, disease, famine, and wild animals that will cause
fully 25% to perish; i.e. one fourth. (Rev 6:7)

If perchance the world's population in that day is the same as now, then
1,982,539,287 people will lose their lives before the calamity is over; in other
words: 1.98 Billion. That's something like 301x the number of global Corona virus
deaths thus far.

* The Corona virus global survival rate thus far is around 98-99% meaning the
germ is potentially lethal but not necessarily fatal, viz: should you contact the
disease, the likelihood of your getting past it is very good.

Folks in Hell no longer concern themselves about disease; they have a whole other
world of problems to cope with; mostly thirst, despair, and anxiety. I should think
that finding a place to sit down would be a concern too.
_

 

[Butch5]

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The priesthood being changed (metatithemenēs tēs hierosunēs). Genitive absolute with present passive participle of metatithēmi, old word to transfer (Gal_1:6).
A change (metathesis). Old substantive from metatithēmi. In N.T. only in Heb. (Heb_7:12; Heb_11:5; Heb_12:27). God’s choice of another kind of priesthood for his Son, left the Levitical line off to one side, forever discounted, passed by “the order of Aaron” (tēn taxin Aarōn).


A change (μετάθεσις)
A transfer to a new basis. Only in Hebrews. See Heb_11:5; Heb_12:27. The inferiority of the Levitical priesthood is inferred from the fact that another priesthood was promised. If perfection was possible at all under the Mosaic economy, it must come through the Levitical priesthood, since that priesthood was, in a sense, the basis of the law. The whole legal system centered in it. The fundamental idea of the law was that of a people united with God. Sin, the obstacle to this ideal union, was dealt with through the priesthood. If the law failed to effect complete fellowship with God, the priesthood was shown to be a failure, and must be abolished; and the change of the priesthood involved the abolition of the entire legal system.


Heb 7:11 Now if shleimut (completeness) had been attainable through the Kehunah of Levi--for under it came the Mattan Torah (giving of the Torah) to the Am Brit --what further need would there have been to speak of another KOHEN arising "according to the order of Malki-Tzedek” TEHILLIM 110:4) rather than "al divrati Aharon"?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a "changing of the guard" of the Kehunah (Priesthood), this behechrach (necessarily) also affects the Torah [Isa 42:4].
Heb 7:13 For the One about whom these things are said belonged to a different shevet (tribe), from which no one has officiated at the Mizbe'ach.
Heb 7:14 For it is ugeret (easily seen, evident) that Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Adoneinu was descended from Yehudah, and in connection with that shevet (tribe), Moshe Rabbeinu said nothing about kohanim.
Heb 7:15 And it is even more evident if another Kohen arises resembling Malki-Tzedek,
OJB

This scripture reference have nothing to do with Olam brother, but a change of priesthood.
As for reputable commentaries, nothing wrong with that, eat the chicken and spit out the bones.
Me personally, don't believe in the "creeds" of modern day Christianity.
God bless
Johann

It doesn't address olam, but your question was where Paul says the Law ended. That's what this passage was addressing.

Regarding commentaries, I don't have an issue with them per se. It just seems some people think they're inspired. As long as we understand that they are the opinions of men and not the inspired word of God they can be handy. The biggest issue I have with them is that of the presuppositions of the authors. We usually come to the table with a different set of presuppositions. As such I don't usually find them of much use unless it's for historical information.

 

[Butch5]

Well that story is not the correct depiction of scripture. A god bashing example I expect to find on atheist forums.

But, how is your belief any better?

Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "God kills them in a fire in hell"

I find your question rather amazing. Let's assume they are burned alive. Do you not see a difference between dying in a fire and burning alive for eternity? It seems to me that there is a huge difference. However, we need not assume they are burned alive. We have a depiction of what happens to these people. Isaiah, writes in chapter 66,

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”


The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Is 66:23–24.

According to Isaiah, it is corpses burning in the fire that shall not be quenched. It's not living souls, it doesn't say it's living bodies, it's corpses. The lake of fire is called the second death, so it could be that people die in the fire. However, it's clear that if that is the case, they die rather quickly as they are dead before their bodies burn up.

 

[Butch5]

As Christians whose ''only'' job is to be Christ's ambassador's, 'we get the story right' .

Mother tells son, "our religion is based on love, son"
Son replies, "so what happens when people don't follow the rules?"
Mother answers, "God's rules are all based on loving your neighbor as yourself and honoring God. So, not 'following His rules', makes you a wicked person.''
Son replies, ''So what does your loving God do with the wicked?''
Mother answers ''God loves the sinner but not their sin. He gives them all an eternal home."
Son replies ''So why is there fire there, do they burn?''
Mother replies ''Yes, all sin needs a punishment. But the fire there is not the same as the fire we know. The Bible tells us that the rich man could hold an intellectual conversation and asked only for a drop of water on his tongue''. We also know that God is true to His word on punishment and will only give each a punishment according to what they do / did Rom 2:6 as He is righteous and just God Psalm 89:14''.

If all sin needs punishment, where is forgiveness?

 

[Butch5]

If people would just believe their Bibles instead of pastors, theologians, and commentators these issues would resolve themselves. Eternal torment requires that one live for eternity.

Paul said,

13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 1 Ti 6:13–16.

Paul said the one that no one can see or can see is the "ONLY" one who has immortality. The one no one has seen or can see, is the Father. Paul says that He alone has immortality. That means that man is not immortal and will die. Since he will die, he cannot suffer eternal torment.

Why do you guys not address these issues? Why do theological positions take precedent over Scripture? It seems to me that if I believe my faith is the most important thing in my life, I'm going to make sure, as all costs, that I understand it correctly. I often wonder why people handle the word of God so carelessly. Why do they accept things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever, and then claim this is what the Bible says? Intellectual honesty requires that we address "ALL" of the Scriptures on a given subject.

Many say things like, "it's a mystery". The problem with that is, they're saying they believe things they cannot explain. Well, if you can't explain it, then you can't prove it's true. Why would we accept something that makes no sense and say it's a mystery?

Somewhere along the way Christians have gotten the idea that it's OK if we all believe different things. It isn't! What that means is that millions of people believe false doctrines. This difference in beliefs is one of the driving forces dividing the church. Each denomination has their own beliefs and they don't associate with those who have differing the beliefs. The first Christians had one single belief, the Apostles teaching.

So far we have these points against Eternal Torment.

1. The Father alone has immortality, man doesn't. thus, man cannot suffer eternally.
2.Per the Scriptures, aion cannot mean eternal.

Let's add another.

Man is "NOT" a tripartite being. Moses recorded the creation of man.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Ge 2:7.

Moses says that God created man from the dust of the earth. So, whatever man is, he consists of the elements of the earth. Moses then says that God breathed out of Himself, the breath of life and the man became a living soul. From this we conclude that a soul requires both the breath of God and the man, the body. Thus, a soul cannot exist without a body. Since the body returns to the dust at death, it's obvious the soul doesn't continue on after death. From this passage we also see that the breath or spirit that is in man, is that of God. It is God's breath or spirit that is in man. From this we see that a living soul is the combination of the breath or spirit of God and the man of dust. Thus, man is "NOT" tripartite. He is a physical being infused with the breath or spirit of God. Since he returns to the dust, He cannot burn eternity.