What is hell?

[Butch5]

There's no such a life in the millennial kingdom, and no life in the New Jerusalem either. It was like being detained for a thousand years, dragged to the court to receive a death sentence, and immediately executed.

No one said they went into the Kingdom. They are resurrected.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have ndone evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 5:28–29.

Yeshua didn't, you did. You are in denial.

49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 13:48–50.

The end of the aion. They are the words of Jesus. If the aion ends, how can it be eternal?

If that's what God presented to Apostle John, who are you to question that? I'm perfectly fine with that, I'm actually marvelled at God's artistic depiction. Question is, is that making YOU uncomfortable?

Not at all. I simply understand it in light of the rest of the Bible, not in spite of the rest of the Bible

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No one said they went into the Kingdom. They are resurrected.

You're just playing a word game to conflate that with the first resurrection of the saints, to make them look like the same with equal outcomes, but nothing can be further from the truth.

49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 13:48–50.

The end of the aion. They are the words of Jesus. If the aion ends, how can it be eternal?

Wrong! That's talking about the gentile age, same as "fullness of the gentiles", and it ends when the church is completed. This separation is fulfilled in Rev. 14, not after Rev. 20. You've just plucked it out of context.

Not at all. I simply understand it in light of the rest of the Bible, not in spite of the rest of the Bible

You don't understand jack. The rest of the Bible is REVEALED in Revelation, and the future must be revealed in this symbolic manner because that's how it was presented in the OT. In your argument, however, Revelation is revealed in the rest of the bible, that's why you've got it backwards.

 

[Butch5]

It is, absolutely.

At first glance, this may seem a minor incident in Abraham's life, but at Beersheba we see that Abraham calls on the LORD as El Olam, “the Everlasting God” or “Eternal God.” The Hebrew word olam means “for a long time, always, forever.” El Olam thus reveals God as “the Everlasting God,” without beginning or end.

Hell is Olam.
Thou art me'olam (from everlasting).

Psa_103:17 But the chesed Hashem is me'olam v'ad olam (from everlasting to everlasting) upon them that fear Him, and His tzedakah unto bnei banim;

Pro_10:25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the rashah no more, but the tzaddik is a yesod olam (an everlasting foundation).

Isa_9:6 (5) For unto us a yeled is born, unto us ben is given; and the misrah (dominion) shall be upon his shoulder; and Shmo shall be called Peleh (Wonderful), Yoetz (Counsellor), El Gibbor (Mighty G-d), Avi Ad (Everlasting Father), Sar Shalom (Prince of Peace).

Isa_33:14 The chatta'im (sinners) in Tziyon are terrified; trembling hath seized the khanafim (hypocrites). Who among us can dwell with the devouring eish? Who among us can dwell with mokedei olam (everlasting burnings, see Dan 12:2)?
Scripture quotations from OJB, my secondary bible.
Eternal (166) (aionios from aion) means existing at all times, perpetual, pertaining to an unlimited duration of time (Ro 1:20 - God's power, Mt 18:8 - God's place of judgment, Ro 16:26+ - God's attribute). Aionios (eternal) is the exact antithesis of proskairos (temporal). See additional discussion of aionios in study of eternal punishment, specifically the importance of an accurate understanding of aionios as a refutation of the false teaching of universalism (everyone will be saved).

Thayer modified and summarized… (1) without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be: Ro 16:26, He 9:14.

In the Septuagint (LXX) aionios is used for everlasting (Hebrew = olam) referring to God (Study His wonderful Name El Olam: Everlasting God) - Ge 21:33, Is 26:4, Is 40:28, to His Covenant - Ge 9:16, Ge 17:7, 13, 19, Lv 24:8, Nu 18:19 2Sa 23:5, 1Ch 16:17, Ps 105:10, Is 24:5, Is 55:3, Is 61:8, Jer 32:40, Jer 50:5, Ezek 16:60, Ezek 37:26 (See related study - New Covenant in the Old Testament)

(2) Without beginning: Ro 16:25, 2Ti 1:9, Titus 1:2, Rev 14:6 = a gospel whose subject-matter is eternal, i. e., the saving purpose of God adopted from eternity)

(3) Without end, never to cease, everlasting: Eternal describes a number of entities in the NT -- kingdom = 2Pe 1:11, glory = 2Co 4:17 2Ti 2:10, 1Pe 5:10; inheritance = He 9:15; redemption = He 9:12; comfort = 2Th 2:16; dwelling places = Lk 16:9, 2Co 5:1; salvation = He 5:9; punishment = Mt 25:46; destruction = 2Th 1:9; judgment = He 6:2; sin = Mk 3:29; . For eternal life see 41 uses below).

Mounce on aionios - This adjective typically functions in three settings: the eternity of God and the divine realm; the blessings of salvation; and everlasting conditions that have neither beginning nor end.

Gilbrant has a lengthy discussion of aionos -

Put very plainly aiōnios is an adjective meaning “eternal, perpetual.” Among classical writers this especially refers to “endless time,” a period of time lasting “for an age” (Liddell-Scott). Together with aiōn (163) the term acquired philosophical overtones, especially beginning in the writings of Plato who developed the term along lines of “super-time, an idea of time in itself” (Guhrt, “Time,” Colin Brown, 3:827). Later, individuals and groups adopted this concept; this opened the door for even further speculations about time (ibid.). (See article on aiōn.)

Despite the rather singular meaning of aiōnios in both Biblical and nonbiblical sources, a fundamental difference exists between the classical/philosophical Greek concept of “eternity” and the Hebraic/Biblical attitude. Whereas the Biblical concept of eternity is an eternity filled with time, “endless time,” the philosophical, Greek notion knows only a “timeless eternity.” In eternity there is no such thing as time— no such thing as past, present, or future, only an eternal now. According to such thinkers as Plato everything in the created order belonged to the realm of time, while eternity was the exclusive territory of deity.

Septuagint Usage - Like its relative aiōn, aiōnios is common in the Septuagint (ca. 160 times), and like aiōn, it is regularly the replacement for the Hebrew ‛ôlām (See the wonderful Name = El Olam: Everlasting God), “long time, duration, for all time” (in various forms). Often it describes a “lasting ordinance” (nomimon ainōion) given for all generations (e.g., Exodus 30:21; Leviticus 7:36; 10:9; cf. 16:29,31,34; Numbers 10:8; 15:15).

Aiōnios frequently describes the “eternal, lasting” covenant God makes with individuals (e.g., Noah, Genesis 9:16; Abraham, Genesis 17:7,8,13,19; David, 2 Samuel 23:5; 1 Chronicles 16:17). This is the eternal covenant in which the faithful place their hope and which God promised to fulfill (Ezekiel 16:60; Jeremiah 50:5; Isaiah 55:3; 61:8). The fulfillment of the covenant is the eternal salvation of God (Isaiah 45:17).

From a theological point of view, God himself is “eternal” (Genesis 21:33; cf. Job 34:17, a Septuagint text which varies from the Hebrew and describes God as “the eternal righteous one”). Isaiah records a song to be sung in the land of Judah: “Trust ye in the LORD for ever; for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength” (26:4). The Septuagint reads “the great eternal God” (cf. Isaiah 40:28; Susanna 42). His rule and dominion are also eternal (Daniel 7:14,27). In an inspiring praise to God the prayer of Nehemiah is recalled in 2 Maccabees: “O Lord, Lord God, Creator of all things . . . who alone is righteous, almighty and eternal . . . ” (1:24f.). Thus being “eternal” is the character of God; it is demonstrated in His faithfulness over the ages to keep His promises and covenants. Eternal life— union with the Eternal God—awaits the faithful (4 Maccabees 15:3; cf. 3 Maccabees 7:16). It appears from the evidence of the Septuagint that the translators avoided using aiōnios in the philosophical sense, even in the more Hellenistic writings.

Aion and Olam, as you may note, is everlasting, not temporally.
We may resort to circular reasoning, but that would not be edifying.

Also at the death of a believer in Christ, that person is with the Lord and not in some kind of "limbo"
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Translated (μετέστησεν)
The word occurs five times in the New Testament: of putting out of the stewardship, Luk_16:4; of the removal of Saul from the kingdom, Act_13:22; of Paul turning away much people, Act_19:26; and of removing mountains, 1Co_13:2. A change of kingdoms is indicated.
Kingdom
Hence God's kingdom is in the present, no less than in heaven. See on Luk_6:20.
Of His dear Son (τοῦ υἱοῦ τῆς ἀγάπης αὐτοῦ)
Lit., of the Son of His love. So Rev. The Son who is the object of His love, and to whom, therefore, the kingdom is given. See Psa_2:7, Psa_2:8; Heb_1:3-9. It is true that love is the essence of the Son as of the Father; also, that the Son's mission is the revelation of the Father's love; but, as Meyer correctly says, “the language refers to the exalted Christ who rules.”
Vincent

Shalom
Johann

You seem to be missing the point. Jesus said it ends. It doesn't matter how many theologians, commentators, pastors, etc. that you post. Jesus' words take priority. If anyone knew what olam and aion mean it was Jesus. Christianity is an echo chamber. These guys all echo one another. They're all afraid to step outside of the lines. Just look at how you're reacting to what I'm saying. If you challenge the norm you're cast out. That means no money for churches, study, missions, etc. So, no one steps outside of the lines except a few who don't care. Martin Luther, though I disagree with his theology, stepped outside of the lines when he posted his 95 theses on the church door. Tyndale stepped outside of the lines when he produced an "unauthorized" English translation. He was killed for doing so. If you want to know what olam means, don't ask Christians, ask Jews, they are the ones who had the word. Christians will spin it to fit their theology. Here is what the ancient understanding of olam was.

Hebrew Word Definition: Eternity | AHRC

Defining Hebrew words within their original cultural context.

www.ancient-hebrew.org

As you can see, olam means, 'to the horizon' or a distant time. This is what the translators of the Septuagint were trying to portray in Greek. They chose the word aion as a close equivalent. the concept they were translating is that of a distant time, not eternity. It was simply a distant time that they could not determine. When the words, olam and aion, are understood this way, they make perfect sense everywhere they occur. When they are translated as eternity, there are dozens of passages that make no sense or are flat out contradictions of the other passages. There are dozens of passages in the Old Testament where translators have said things of the Mosaic Law are forever. However, in the New Testament Paul said the Law ended. How can those ordinances be forever, if they ended?


8 And the LORD spoke to Aaron: “Here, I Myself have also given you charge of My heave offerings, all the holy gifts of the children of Israel; I have given them as a portion to you and your sons, as an ordinance forever.

Numbers 18:11
11 “This also is yours: the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel; I have given them to you, and your sons and daughters with you, as an ordinance forever. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it.

Numbers 18:19
19 “All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to the LORD, I have given to you and your sons and daughters with you as an ordinance forever; it is a covenant of salt forever before the LORD with you and your descendants with you.”

2 Chronicles 2:4
4 Behold, I am building a temple for the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to Him, to burn before Him sweet incense, for the continual showbread, for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths, on the New Moons, and on the set feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance forever to Israel.


The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Nu 18:8–2 Ch 2:4.

All of these ordinances of the Mosaic Law are said to be forever. Paul said,

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in qordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Eph 2:12–15.

So, the translators say those ordinances are forever, Paul said they ended. Who do you suppose has a better understanding of Olam, a man who spoke the language or our modern translators?

 

[Butch5]

You're just playing a word game to conflate that with the first resurrection of the saints, to make them look like the same with equal outcomes, but nothing can be further from the truth.

No, you said the wicked weren't resurrected.

Wrong! That's talking about the gentile age, same as "fullness of the gentiles", and it ends when the church is completed. This separation is fulfilled in Rev. 14, not after Rev. 20. You've just plucked it out of context.

Sorry, but Jesus' ministry was to the Jews. The Jews weren't asking about the Gentiles. At this point it hadn't been revealed that the Gospel was going to the Gentiles.

You don't understand jack. The rest of the Bible is REVEALED in Revelation, and the future must be revealed in this symbolic manner because that's how it was presented in the OT. In your argument, however, Revelation is revealed in the rest of the bible, that's why you've got it backwards.

There you go, you agree it's symbolic. Therefore, one must interpret it. Therefore, one could be wrong in said interpretation.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You seem to be missing the point. Jesus said it ends. It doesn't matter how many theologians, commentators, pastors, etc. that you post. Jesus' words take priority. If anyone knew what olam and aion mean it was Jesus. Christianity is an echo chamber. These guys all echo one another. They're all afraid to step outside of the lines. Just look at how you're reacting to what I'm saying. If you challenge the norm you're cast out. That means no money for churches, study, missions, etc. So, no one steps outside of the lines except a few who don't care. Martin Luther, though I disagree with his theology, stepped outside of the lines when he posted his 95 theses on the church door. Tyndale stepped outside of the lines when he produced an "unauthorized" English translation. He was killed for doing so. If you want to know what olam means, don't ask Christians, ask Jews, they are the ones who had the word. Christians will spin it to fit their theology. Here is what the ancient understanding of olam was.

Hebrew Word Definition: Eternity | AHRC

Defining Hebrew words within their original cultural context.

www.ancient-hebrew.org

As you can see, olam means, 'to the horizon' or a distant time. This is what the translators of the Septuagint were trying to portray in Greek. They chose the word aion as a close equivalent. the concept they were translating is that of a distant time, not eternity. It was simply a distant time that they could not determine. When the words, olam and aion, are understood this way, they make perfect sense everywhere they occur. When they are translated as eternity, there are dozens of passages that make no sense or are flat out contradictions of the other passages. There are dozens of passages in the Old Testament where translators have said things of the Mosaic Law are forever. However, in the New Testament Paul said the Law ended. How can those ordinances be forever, if they ended?


8 And the LORD spoke to Aaron: “Here, I Myself have also given you charge of My heave offerings, all the holy gifts of the children of Israel; I have given them as a portion to you and your sons, as an ordinance forever.

Numbers 18:11
11 “This also is yours: the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel; I have given them to you, and your sons and daughters with you, as an ordinance forever. Everyone who is clean in your house may eat it.

Numbers 18:19
19 “All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to the LORD, I have given to you and your sons and daughters with you as an ordinance forever; it is a covenant of salt forever before the LORD with you and your descendants with you.”

2 Chronicles 2:4
4 Behold, I am building a temple for the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to Him, to burn before Him sweet incense, for the continual showbread, for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths, on the New Moons, and on the set feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance forever to Israel.


The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Nu 18:8–2 Ch 2:4.

All of these ordinances of the Mosaic Law are said to be forever. Paul said,

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in qordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Eph 2:12–15.

So, the translators say those ordinances are forever, Paul said they ended. Who do you suppose has a better understanding of Olam, a man who spoke the language or our modern translators?

What will end is the gentle age of oppression over God's people, that's the Babylonian metallic statue in king Nebuchadnezzar's dream and the four beasts in Daniel's dream, that's neither Hades nor the Lake of Fire. This is why you're focusing on the tree while missing the forest. You have no idea what Yeshua was talking about.

 

[Butch5]

What will end is the gentle age of oppression over God's people, that's the Babylonian metallic statue in king Nebuchadnezzar's dream and the four beasts in Daniel's dream, that's neither Hades nor the Lake of Fire. This is why you're focusing on the tree while missing the forest. You have no idea what Yeshua was talking about.

You miss the point. The aion ends. It ends, thus it cannot be eternal.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No, you said the wicked weren't resurrected.

No they weren't, and neither will they when Yeshua returns and the saints are resurrected.

Sorry, but Jesus' ministry was to the Jews. The Jews weren't asking about the Gentiles. At this point it hadn't been revealed that the Gospel was going to the Gentiles.

Oh really? Then what was about the Canaanite woman? What about the woman at the well? What about the Roman Centurian? You're the one who's struck with this doctrine that "Jesus' ministry was to the Jews". Yeah, to the Jews first, then to the Greeks, not starting with Paul, but with Yeshua himself, right after he was baptized!

There you go, you agree it's symbolic. Therefore, one must interpret it. Therefore, one could be wrong in said interpretation.

Or one mustn't, as angels had already interpreted everything explicitly to John.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You miss the point. The aion ends. It ends, thus it cannot be eternal.

No, you miss the point. You've got the wrong aion.

 

[Butch5]

No, you miss the point. You've got the wrong aion.

It ends. that's the point. Something that ends is not eternal.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It ends. that's the point. Something that ends is not eternal.

You've got the wrong "something".

 

[Butch5]

No they weren't, and neither will they when Yeshua returns and the saints are resurrected.

According to jesus they are.

Oh really? Then what was about the Canaanite woman? What about the woman at the well? What about the Roman Centurian? You're the one who's struck with this doctrine that "Jesus' ministry was to the Jews". Yeah, to the Jews first, then to the Greeks, not starting with Paul, but with Yeshua himself, right after he was baptized!

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”
23 But He answered her not a word.
And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”
26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Yes, He helped her. But, as He said, He was sent only to Israel. His ministry was to Israel.


The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 15:21–28.

Or one mustn't, as angels had already interpreted everything explicitly to John.

He may have explained it to John, but he didn't explain it to Christians.

 

[Butch5]

You've got the wrong "something".

I find it's always the case that when the Scriptures run up against church doctrine, church doctrine always wins.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

According to jesus they are.

According to Rev. 20:5-6 they aren't.

Yes, He helped her. But, as He said, He was sent only to Israel. His ministry was to Israel.

"Lost house of Israel" by bible's own definition is the ten lost tribes assimilated into the gentiles, while Jews are the southern kingdom of Judah. They're not the same. Also, if he was sent only to Israel, why did he help her, a Canaanite? Why was he sent to her in the first place if the gospel was supposed to be concealed from her? In Yeshua's own words, "a tree is known by its FRUIT," " For whoever DOES the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." and you're still in denial.

He may have explained it to John, but he didn't explain it to Christians.

Didn't explain to all Christians or to those who don't read?

I find it's always the case that when the Scriptures run up against church doctrine, church doctrine always wins.

You are twisting the narrative of the bible by plucking this word from its original context and misappling it in another context. I don't struggle with you down the rabbit hole, I stand at the opening and expose your trick.

 

[Johann]

There are dozens of passages in the Old Testament where translators have said things of the Mosaic Law are forever. However, in the New Testament Paul said the Law ended. How can those ordinances be forever, if they ended?

Where did Paul say the "law" ended? The law in it's entirety, or the ceremonial laws?
Paul, speaking in the context of Jew and Gentile being brought together, declares that the "law of commandments" were abolished.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two." (Ephesians 2:15)

Exactly what law (or part of law) is that which is 'expressed in ordinances', and abolished? Is he referring to the Mosaic system in its entirety, or does it only refer to the ceremonial aspects pertaining to feasts and temple sacrifices?

Cannot be the Mosaic law.....Some Mosaic laws, such as the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20: 3-17; Deuteronomy 5: 7-21), are eternal in nature and are still in full force today. Other Mosaic laws were criminal or civil and were applied by the government.
The end of the law (telos nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation (Rom_6:14; Rom_9:31; Eph_2:15; Col_2:14) as in Luk_16:16. Christ is the goal or aim of the law (Gal_3:24). Christ is the fulfilment of the law (Mat_5:17; Rom_13:10; 1Ti_1:5). But here (Denney) Paul’s main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for “every one that believeth” whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.
The end of the law (τέλος νόμου)
First in the sentence as the emphatic point of thought. Expositors differ as to the sense. 1. The aim. Either that the intent of the law was to make men righteous, which was accomplished in Christ, or that the law led to Him as a pedagogue (Gal_3:24). 2. The fulfillment, as Mat_5:17. 3. The termination. To believers in Christ the law has no longer legislative authority to say, “Do this and live; do this or die” (Morison). The last is preferable. Paul is discussing two materially exclusive systems, the one based on doing, the other on believing. The system of faith, represented by Christ, brings to an end and excludes the system of law; and the Jews, in holding by the system of law, fail of the righteousness which is by faith. Compare Gal_2:16; Gal_3:2-14.
Vincent.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Just to put it into context for you...so where, in Scripture, did Paul said the Mosaic law ended?

As to olam, The Hebrew word olam means “for a long time, always, forever.” El Olam thus reveals God as “the Everlasting God,” without beginning or end.

Is YHVH "only to the horizon?" [ Whatever that means, since Olam means "everlasting"]
Hebrew words used for space are also used for time. The Hebrew word qedem means "east" but is also the same word for the "past." The Hebrew word olam literally means "beyond the horizon." When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as "eternity" meaning a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever," but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further."

Clear as daylight, Olam/
עֹולָ֔ם


="forever and ever, eternity, so, "beyond the horizon" is a metaphor for eternity

Ancient: A distant time in the past or future, as a time hidden from the present. [freq. 439] |kjv: ever, everlasting, old, perpetual, evermore, never, time, ancient, world, always, alway, long, more| {str: 5769}

Here, you can listen to the different viewpoints re everlasting Hell.

We are to rightly divide the Scriptures, and not "redefine" according to what we may believe to be true, based on our biases and eisegeses.
HEBREW WORD STUDIES
עוֹלָם 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' Strong's 5769
Hebrew Word Studies Index || Search this website || Greek Word Studies Index

This Hebrew word study uses a Greek Unicode font and a Hebrew Unicode font and is printable.

HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT
Introduction 1.1
#1.1 Hebrew word study on 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' עוֹלָם Strong's 5769 Genesis to Deuteronomy
GREEK NEW TESTAMENT
#2.1 Scriptures for 'aion' meaning 'age' or 'ever' αἰών Strong's 165
#2.2 Greek Word Study on 'aionios' meaning 'eternal' or 'everlasting' αἰώνιος Strong's 166
Introduction 1.1
This bible study is about the meaning of the Hebrew word עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting', or 'age-lasting' and gives every verse where "olam" appears from Genesis to Deuteronomy. To obtain a true understanding of this word these scriptures need to be meditated on and notes made of their meaning in different contexts. This requires putting scriptures together where they seem to have a similar meaning, and then meditating even more. The truth will be revealed by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to guide us into all truth (John 16:13). Wherever this word olam appears in the Hebrew, the translation of it is highlighted with yellow. In Hebrew the suffixes and some prepositions are added to the basic word to enhance the meaning, and where this has been done the meaning of the suffix or preposition has been included in highlighted text. Every blessing be to those who seek the truth of God's word.

#1.1 Scriptures for עוֹלָם 'ʽolam' meaning 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting' Strong's 5769 Genesis to Deuteronomy
Genesis 3:22 And Yahweh God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
6:3 And Yahweh said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of past time, men of renown.
9:12 And God said, This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:
9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
13:15 For all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed for all time.
17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you in their generations for an age-lasting covenant, to be a God to you, and to your seed after you.
17:8 And I will give to you, and to your seed after you, the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an age-lasting possession; and I will be their God.
17:13 He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your money, must be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an age-lasting covenant.
17:19 And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed; and you shall call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an age-lasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of Yahweh, the everlasting God.
48:4 And said to me, Behold, I will make you fruitful, and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people; and will give this land to your seed after you for an age-lasting possession.
49:26 The blessings of your father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors to the utmost bound of the age-lasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brethren.

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover to Moses, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial to all generations.
12:14 And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to Yahweh throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for all time.
12:17 And you shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall you observe this day in your generations by an ordinance in future.
12:24 And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons for all time.
14:13 And Moses said to the people, Do not be afraid, stand still, and see the salvation of Yahweh, which he will show to you to day: for the Egyptians whom you have seen to day, you shall see them again no more for life.
15:18 Yahweh shall reign for ever and ever.
19:9 And Yahweh said to Moses, Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for life. And Moses told the words of the people to Yahweh.
21:6 Then his master shall bring him to the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or to the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for life.
27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation outside the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before Yahweh: it shall be a statute for an age to their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
28:43 And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in to the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near to the altar to minister in the holy place: that they do not bear iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for all time to him and his seed after him.
29:9 And you shall gird them with sashes, Aaron and his sons, and put the hats on them: and the priest’s office shall be theirs for an all time statute: and you shall consecrate Aaron and his sons.
29:28 And it shall be Aaron’s and his sons’ by a statute for all time from the children of Israel: for it is a heave offering: and it shall be a heave offering from the children of Israel of the sacrifice of their peace offerings, even their heave offering to Yahweh.
30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they do not die: and it shall be a statute for all time to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an all time covenant.
31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for all time: for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you swore by your own self, and said to them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give to your seed, and they shall inherit it for all time.
40:15 And you shall anoint them, as you anointed their father, that they may minister to me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be a continual priesthood throughout their generations.

Leviticus 3:17 it shall be a continual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that you eat neither fat nor blood.
6:18 All the males among the children of Aaron shall eat of it. It shall be a statute for all time in your generations concerning the offerings of Yahweh made by fire: every one who touches them shall be holy.
6:22 And the priest of his sons who is anointed in his place shall offer it: it is a statute for all time to Yahweh; it shall be wholly burnt.
7:34 For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons by a statute for all time from among the children of Israel.
7:36 Which Yahweh commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute for all time throughout their generations.
10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die: it shall be a statute for life throughout your generations:
10:15 The heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings of fat made by fire, to wave it for a wave offering before Yahweh; and it shall be yours, and your sons’ with you, by a statute for all time; as Yahweh has commanded.
16:29 And this shall be a statute for all time to you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it is one of your own country, or a stranger who sojourns among you:
16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before Yahweh.
16:31 It shall be a Sabbath of rest to you, and you shall afflict your souls, by a statute for all time.
16:34 And this shall be a longlasting statute to you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as Yahweh commanded Moses.
17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices to demons, after whom they have gone a *******. This shall be a statute for all time to them throughout their generations.
23:14 And you shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
23:21 And you shall proclaim on the same day, that it may be a holy convocation to you: you shall do no servile work in it: it shall be a statute for all time in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
23:31 You shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
23:41 And you shall keep it a feast to Yahweh seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for all time in your generations: you shall celebrate it in the seventh month.
24:3 Outside the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening to the morning before Yahweh continually: it shall be a statute for all time in your generations.
24:8 Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before Yahweh continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an all time covenant.
24:9 And it shall be Aaron’s and his sons’; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy to him of the offerings of Yahweh made by fire by an all time statute.
25:32 Nevertheless the cities of the Levites, and the houses of the cities of their possession, may the Levites redeem at any time.
25:34 But the field of the suburbs of their cities may not be sold; for it is their all time possession.
25:46 And you shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your slaves for life: but over your brethren the children of Israel, you shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Numbers 10:8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for all time throughout your generations.
15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger who sojourns with you, an ordinance for all time in your generations: as you are, so shall the stranger be before Yahweh.
18:8 And Yahweh spoke to Aaron, Behold, I also have given you the charge of my heave offerings of all the sanctified things of the children of Israel; to you have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to your sons, by an ordinance for all time.
18:11 And this is yours; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them to you, and to your sons and to your daughters with you, by a statute for all time: every one who is clean in your house shall eat of it.
18:19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to Yahweh, have I given you, and your sons and your daughters with you, by a statute for all time: it is a covenant of salt for all time before Yahweh to you and to your seed with you.
18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for all time throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
19:10 And he who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be to the children of Israel, and to the stranger who sojourns among them, for a statute for all time.
19:21 And it shall be a continual statute to them, that he who sprinkles the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he who touches the water of separation shall be unclean until evening.
25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an all time priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children always!
12:28 Observe and hear all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you, and with your children after you always, when you do that which is good and right in the sight of Yahweh your God.
13:16 And you shall gather all the plunder of it into the midst of its street, and shall burn with fire the city, and all its plunder every bit, for Yahweh your God: and it shall be a heap for all time; it shall not be built again.
15:17 Then you shall take an aul, and thrust it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant for life. And also to your maid-servant you shall do likewise.
23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of Yahweh; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of Yahweh for life:
23:6 You shall not seek their peace nor their prosperity all your days for all time.
28:46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and for a wonder, and upon your seed for all time.
29:29 The secret things belong to Yahweh our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for all time, that we may do all the words of this law.
32:7 Remember the days of old time, consider the years of many generations: ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you.
32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
33:15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the age-lasting hills,
33:27 The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy.

HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'

This bible study is about the meaning of the Hebrew word עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting' or 'age-lasting', and gives every verse where 'olam' appears.

www.logosapostolic.org

Shalom
Johann

 

[Johann]

So, the translators say those ordinances are forever, Paul said they ended. Who do you suppose has a better understanding of Olam, a man who spoke the language or our modern translators?

Just gave you the meaning for Olam, and it means "forever and ever/eternity" which is not "purgatory"
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I find it's always the case that when the Scriptures run up against church doctrine, church doctrine always wins.

There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on.

...and the funny thing is, these "denominations" are always in disagreement as to the word 'Olam" and many more other cardinal doctrines.

2 Timothy 2:19, NLT: But God's truth stands firm like a foundation stone with this inscription: 'The LORD knows those who are his,' and 'All who belong to the LORD must turn away from evil.

 

[Johann]

Christians will spin it to fit their theology. Here is what the ancient understanding of olam was.

Just be careful not to be selective on Hebrew words and "spin" it to fit your theology @Butch5
You will be surprised to know the majority of Modern day Jews are ignorant re our New Testament, so there goes your argument "Ask the Jews"
There are plenty rabbinical resources to be found, if you know where to look, but then, I don't need Rashi or any rabbinical scholar to tell me how to read my Bible brother.

TEACHER, DIVINE
(1) Christ as
Mat_4:23; Mat_5:2; Mat_7:29; Mar_6:34; Luk_4:15; Luk_5:3; Joh_3:2; Joh_7:14; Joh_8:2
--SEE Instruction, INSTRUCTION
Exposition of the Scriptures, TEACHER, DIVINE
(2) God as
Exo_4:15; Deu_4:36; Psa_25:12; Psa_32:8; Psa_71:17; Psa_94:10; Isa_2:3; Isa_28:26
Isa_48:17; Isa_54:13; Jer_32:33; Mic_4:2
--SEE Instruction, INSTRUCTION
(3) Christ Expounds the Scriptures
Mat_13:37; Mat_24:33; Mar_4:34; Luk_8:11; Luk_24:27
(4) The Teaching of Christ
Mat_7:28; Mar_4:2; Joh_7:16; 2Jo_1:9
--SEE Words of Christ, WORDS OF CHRIST
& WORDS OF CHRIST
-- "Spirit" as. See HOLY SPIRIT

Not being facetious with you, but I do love a good debate.
Shalom
Johann

 

[Johann]

Yes, He helped her. But, as He said, He was sent only to Israel. His ministry was to Israel.

And Paul's ministry was to the HaGoyim.
Question
How many mysteries were given to Paul?

Thanks
Johann

 

[Beetow]

The disturbing scene depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be presided over by none other
than the sweet little babe away in a manger.

• John 5:21-23 . . Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all
judgment to the Son

• Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the
man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the
dead.

Impious man-hating women out there in cyberspace need to keep something in
mind. At the great white throne event, they are going to be judged solely on the
basis of their lives rather than the basis of their looks. Christ will be neither
influenced nor impressed by the silkiness of their thighs nor the size of their
bosoms; no, in point of fact; he will be quite determined to disfigure them by a
manner of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

• Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of life was
cast into the lake of fire.

There will no doubt be some bent noses over these comments and see them
as denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double standard to
think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask: since when did women
become a protected species? Women are not a protected species. There are just as
many, if not more, women languishing in Hell as men because God is not influenced
by chivalry and/or political correctness.

• Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does
evil: For God does not show favoritism.

Those verses tell me there will be just as many, if not more, women as men thrown
into the reservoir of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 because women's gender
won't be a mitigating factor when they face justice at the Great White Throne
event.
_

 

[complete]

'The way of life is above to the wise,
that he may depart from hell beneath.'
(Proverbs 15:24)

* Hell is the grave, the place of the dead. Man can only 'depart' from it by resurrection.