What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

[Ceptor]

I was indeed saying that the rapture was the start of the "Day of the Lord" that is also called "The wrath of the Lamb" which is the beginning of the tribulation, when tribulation is referred to as the seven year period of God's wrath poured out. It begins at the sixth seal.

I have not studied enough in depth to answer the second question with certainty as of yet.

 

[Listening]

The day of the Lord, and the gathering are two separate events that will happen 1000 years apart from each other. The Gathering (rapture) first and then the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to make war at the end of tribulation, and set up his Kingdom on earth, not to resurrect anyone until the end of the Millennium. The saints that live during the "tribulation" will have to die for what they believe, which means there will be no resurrection for them except when they die and their spirits are raised because of the death of their body, later to receive a new body.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The rapture (first resurrection) will happen first, and then the "man of sin" will be revealed. Tribulation comes until Jesus Christ comes to make war, not to resurrect anyone, but only to set up his millennium Kingdom. Then after 1000 years of reign of Christ, the last resurrection happens, which brings the great white throne judgment.

Hi, so you are calling the Catching away or as its commonly called the rapture event the first resurrection?
We can look at that in scripture and to me it is the same as the Day of christ or as its also called the Day of the lord, which was also a term used for jesus first coming by the way.
The return of christ

The Return of the Lord

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now we see the rapture event or first resurrection will not happen until The last trump Which happens at the return of the lord.

1 Thessalonians 4 KJV

We know that trump is the last trump
a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

3But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So when jesus returns only then will the first resurrection occur
And this as at the last trump

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
So because jesus will have put down all rule power and authority by this time and because jesus will have delivered up the kingdom to God the father
1 Corinthians 15 KJV

But we are told also scripture In scripture that this first resurrection will NOT occur until the man of sin is revealed.
So the man of sin is revealed before and not after the rapture or first resurrection.

For scripture tells us


Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2 KJV

We know there is no gathering also until the dead in christ are raised first
Then we who are alive are caught up
In a twinkling of an eye
And the lord comes with all his saints
Those dead and those caught up to be with him
But that day of christ does not occur until the man of sin is revealed
Scripture is clear and not trying to trick us.

Christ is LORD
jesus Is LORD
The day of Christ
Is The Day Of the Lord
As christ is Lord.

Scripture itself reveals that man of sin in the book of revelation
Which is to be understood and not sealed.

 

[Listening]

Understanding scripture is not a academic discipline .
It is spiritually understood by those who have the spirit of truth.
St Paul explicitly told the church that the return of jesus from heaven will not occur until the Falling away occurs and the man of sin is revealed.

Paul did not write in code or hidden language
He meant what he said.
He also explained by this , that there is no hidden rapture or secret rapture That they may have missed!
And they were not to worry about missing that day!
Because that day will not come until the falling away and that man of sin is revealed.
Paul's letter was to confirm by the Spirit In his authority to them, that they had nothing to worry about And he gave them indication by Putting them in mind of real events that were to occur in the world first, Those events were things he had spoke about to them before, and he reminded them that those things must first occur before that day .

 

[Listening]

Re: Hi, so you are calling the Catching away or as its commonly called the rapture event the first resurrection?
We can look at that in scripture and to me it is the same as the Day of christ or as its also called the Day of the lord, which was also a term used for jesus first coming by the way.The day of The Lord
The day of christ

The Coming Day of Judgment

(John 1:6-13)



1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: 3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 4Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
Malachi 3 KJV

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. {THE END OF THE PROPHETS.}

Malachi 4 KJV

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord
Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

Day of the Lord
Day of Christ
Same thing in the OT
Understood as the same in the NT As christ's first coming

And also christ coming again for his church

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2 KJV

 

[Listening]

We know that after christ's Second coming there are no more enemies to be destroyed
For at his coming the man of sin is destroyed By the brightness of his coming
In conjunction With it.

And we know the last enemy to be destroyed is death

Now we know that christ has risen and has a glorious resurrection body but we and the dead in christ do not yet have but.

3But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming

So if the last enemy to be destroyed is death
And we that enemy is destroyed including for us at his coming
Then is it not obvious that the man of sin
Will be revealed before his coming as st Paul explicitly explained?
For death is the last enemy to be destroyed
It is without doubt that the man of sin must be already revealed
Before he is destroyed
And before the last enemy is destroyed
3But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming
And we know the last enemy is death and not the man of sin
But we knew the man of sin is to be revealed before that day
That day being the last trump when the dead in christ are raised and we left alive are changed to be with them caught up to be with the lord at his coming in the air.
So we know the man of sin will be revealed before he is destroyed by that coming of christ
When christ will destroy the man of sin by the lord's who is christ second coming.

 

[Listening]

Is it not a sign of Both; the falling away And of the man of sin revealed,
When the church accepts as nothing , A man calling himself,
The Supreme high priest of the universal church?
And the church embraces such a man?
Do you Not know what a man is showing himself to be by taking that title to himself?
And, Do you not know that that man is NOT the supreme High Priest of the universal church?
And, do you NOT know who is?

 

[Listening]

Those who forsake instruction praise the wicked, but those who heed it resist them.

 

[Curtis]

Hi, so you are calling the Catching away or as its commonly called the rapture event the first resurrection?
We can look at that in scripture and to me it is the same as the Day of christ or as its also called the Day of the lord, which was also a term used for jesus first coming by the way.
The return of christ

The Return of the Lord

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now we see the rapture event or first resurrection will not happen until The last trump Which happens at the return of the lord.

1 Thessalonians 4 KJV

We know that trump is the last trump
a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

3But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So when jesus returns only then will the first resurrection occur
And this as at the last trump

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
So because jesus will have put down all rule power and authority by this time and because jesus will have delivered up the kingdom to God the father
1 Corinthians 15 KJV

But we are told also scripture In scripture that this first resurrection will NOT occur until the man of sin is revealed.
So the man of sin is revealed before and not after the rapture or first resurrection.

For scripture tells us


Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2 KJV

We know there is no gathering also until the dead in christ are raised first
Then we who are alive are caught up
In a twinkling of an eye
And the lord comes with all his saints
Those dead and those caught up to be with him
But that day of christ does not occur until the man of sin is revealed
Scripture is clear and not trying to trick us.

Christ is LORD
jesus Is LORD
The day of Christ
Is The Day Of the Lord
As christ is Lord.

Scripture itself reveals that man of sin in the book of revelation
Which is to be understood and not sealed.

The "rapture" or the "gathering together" will happen before the "man of sin" is revealed, because we are the ones holding him back from being revealed.

2Th 2:3.. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for "falling away" means, "departure" which the very first Bibles ever translated into English used. After there is a departure, then the man of sin is revealed.
that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

The Church is what is holding back this man from being revealed. We posses the gate of our enemies, and have authority over all of them. Once the Church is gone it will be free rein for the principalities and powers to do their evil. We also find this truth again in a couple scriptures down in this same chapter..........

2Th 2:5.. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6.. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

He that is holding back this power from becoming manifest (man of sin) is the Church. Some people say it is the Holy Spirit who is holding back the man of sin to be revealed in his time, and once he leaves all Hell is going to be loosed. If that is true then the Church will also have to leave because Jesus told us. Notice, he that is withholding this man from being revealed, once taken out of the way, then he (man of sin) will be revealed.

Joh 14:26..But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 14:16.. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

If the Holy Ghost leaves this earth so does the Church as he abides with us for ever. It would impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave without taking the Church with him.

There was a "letter" being passed around with Paul name on it saying the rapture had already taken place, and the Church had missed it. This was the entire reason for Paul to write to these Church's explaining this error.........

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Nor by letter as from us that the day of Christ had already happened!!!

There are only two "resurrections", one being the "rapture", and the last resurrection at the end of the millennium. There is a 1000 years separation between the two.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The second coming of Jesus will not be to resurrect anyone, only to make war with the Antichrist and the beast, and to set up his millennium reign on earth. At the second coming all the Saints will be coming together with Jesus riding horses.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

At the end of the millennium the last resurrection will take place. All the "Angels" will gather together his Saints from the four corners of the earth who were reining and ruling with the Lord during that time. All the wicked will be gathered together, and all the rest of the wicked will be raised back to life to be "judged"

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Listening]

The "rapture" or the "gathering together" will happen before the "man of sin" is revealed, because we are the ones holding him back from being revealed.

2Th 2:3.. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for "falling away" means, "departure" which the very first Bibles ever translated into English used. After there is a departure, then the man of sin is revealed.
that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

The Church is what is holding back this man from being revealed. We posses the gate of our enemies, and have authority over all of them. Once the Church is gone it will be free rein for the principalities and powers to do their evil. We also find this truth again in a couple scriptures down in this same chapter..........

2Th 2:5.. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6.. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

He that is holding back this power from becoming manifest (man of sin) is the Church. Some people say it is the Holy Spirit who is holding back the man of sin to be revealed in his time, and once he leaves all Hell is going to be loosed. If that is true then the Church will also have to leave because Jesus told us.

Joh 14:26..But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 14:16.. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

If the Holy Ghost leaves this earth so does the Church as he abides with us for ever. It would impossible for the Holy Spirit to leave without taking the Church with him.

There was a "letter" being passed around with Paul name on it saying the rapture had already taken place, and the Church had missed it. This was the entire reason for Paul to write to these Church's explaining this error.........

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Nor by letter as from us that the day of Christ had already happened!!!

There are only two "resurrections", one being the "rapture", and the last resurrection at the end of the millennium. There is a 1000 years separation between the two.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The second coming of Jesus will not be to resurrect anyone, only to make war with the Antichrist and the beast, and to set up his millennium reign on earth. At the second coming all the Saints will coming together with Jesus riding horses.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

At the end of the millennium the last resurrection will take place. All the "Angels" will gather together his Saints from the four corners of the earth who were reining and ruling with the Lord during that time. All the wicked will be gathered together, and all the rest of the wicked will be raised back to life to be "judged"

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I have never heard that theory before, about the falling away being the rapture
I must say it is clever, but in context does not make sense As such an event would not be called a departure
But surely THE DEPARTURE,
So Nice but no cigar for this rapture ready toxic teaching as the falling away is universally agreed to be referring to the Apostasy, which occurs in conjunction with the Coming and so revealing of that man of sin, the papacy.
Again:
#106Listening, Yesterday at 8:00 PM
Is it not a sign of Both; the falling away And of the man of sin revealed,
When the church accepts as nothing , A man calling himself,
The Supreme high priest of the universal church? ( here is the apostasy by the popes that millions think is not the apostasy, because they believed the lie.)
And the church embraces such a man?
Do you Not know what a man is showing himself to be by taking that title to himself?
And, Do you not know that that man is NOT the supreme High Priest of the universal church?
And, do you NOT know who is?

 

[Listening]

Everyone who believes antichrist is yet to come has been And is being deceived by him.
It is time to wake up and know the fulfilment of the prophecies concerning the papacy
That have been known by the church for centuries.
The antichrist is a spirit that In prophecy is described as infectIng a kingdom and a king, st john was shown a vision of it .
And its been on the earth for centuries and killed 100 million saints and declared itself To be God.

 

[Ceptor]

At the end of the millennium the last resurrection will take place. All the "Angels" will gather together his Saints from the four corners of the earth who were reining and ruling with the Lord during that time. All the wicked will be gathered together, and all the rest of the wicked will be raised back to life to be "judged"

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Curtis, that is a ton of great info. Thanks for posting man. Everything made perfect sense to me except this part.

That verse in Matthew 24:31 lines up with the rapture itself, the falling away as you so well described it.

Or am I mistaken? I'll post the verses and underline and highlight the connections.



Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



These both describe the rapture. And the verse you said happened after the 1000 years is right in the middle of it. Directly after them "mourning" for fear of His wrath and telling the mountains to "fall on us".


How does 1000 years show up in the middle there somewhere? :/


The rest of your post taught me a great deal though, and the explanations are straightforward... THANK YOU!

 

[Ceptor]

Everyone who believes antichrist is yet to come has been And is being deceived by him.

So the pope is the antichrist himself?

But then...

And its been on the earth for centuries and killed 100 million saints and declared itself To be God.

You tell everyone that the pope isn't THE "man of sin" by telling us that he is one of many who have been here "on the earth for centuries" and "declared itself to be God." lol

Maybe someone can shed a little more light on this seeing as I've had to take a break in my study for some other work, but if I remember correctly from previous reading the "man of sin" who is THE antichrist, I believe sets himself on a throne, and declares boldly he is "god".

This is referred to as the abomination of desolation in Daniel, and Jesus then tells us about it again in the New Testament.

The pope hasn't done this. He just made a speech saying "we follow Jesus"... and then ended his speech with "the failure of the cross."

Now that's some horrible blasphemy... but it wasn't bold. It was cowardly snaky likey.. lol

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There is a lottt of evil coming from the pope right now. But even with my limited knowledge on this subject, if the MAN OF SIN were here... you would likely be sitting under a guillotine awaiting the blade to sever your head. ( I'm inferring here. ) And from the verses Curtis posted, it's quite plainly stated He can't come here until the Holy Spirit is gone. Satan is on a leash, God still rules on His throne, and His Church is still here.

I can't see any other meaning of what Curtis just posted. He explained it really well too.

ps, I still love you even if we disagree.

But I do disagree. Even if what you say is true, greater is He who lives in me than he who lives in the world. :coffee:

 

[Listening]

Verse 3. - Let no man deceive you by any means; in any way, not only in any of the foregoing methods, "by spirit, or word, or letter," but in any way whatever. For (that day shall not come). The bracketed words are not in the original, but are correctly supplied for the completion of the sense. Except there come a falling away; or, the apostasy; namely, that apostasy about which the apostle, when in Thessalonica, had instructed his readers. The falling away here alluded to is evidently religious, not political. Hence it cannot be the revolt of the Jews from the Romans, or any of those revolts and disturbances which then occurred in the political world. Nor must we conceive that the man of sin himself is here meant; for this apostasy precedes his coming - prepares the way for his advent; it is not the result, but the cause, of his appearance. The word, then, is to be taken generally to denote that remarkable "falling away" from Christianity concerning which Paul had instructed the Thessalonians (comp. 1 Timothy 4:1-3). 1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
First; namely, before the coming of the day of the Lord. And that man of sin; in whom sin is, as it were, personified, as righteousness is in Christ. Be revealed. The apostle considers the man of sin as the counterpart of Christ; as Christ was revealed, so shall the man of sin be revealed. The son of perdition; whose sin necessarily conducts to perdition; not here the perdition of his followers, but his own perdition. The same name which was applied by our Lord to Judas Iscariot (John 17:12).

 

[Listening]

So the pope is the antichrist himself?

But then...



You tell everyone that the pope isn't THE "man of sin" by telling us that he is one of many who have been here "one the earth for centuries" and "declared itself to be God." lol

Maybe someone can shed a little more light on this seeing as I've had to take a break in my study for some other work, but if I remember correctly from previous reading the "man of sin" who is THE antichrist, I believe sets himself on a throne, and declares boldly he is "god".

This is referred to as the abomination of desolation in Daniel, and Jesus then tells us about it again in the New Testament.

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There is a lottt of evil coming from the pope right now. But even with my limited knowledge on this subject, if the MAN OF SIN were here... you would likely be sitting under a guillotine awaiting the blade to sever your head. ( I'm inferring here. ) And from the verses Curtis posted, it's quite plainly stated He can't come here until the Holy Spirit is gone. Satan is on a leash, God still rules on His throne, and His Church is still here.

I can't see any other meaning of what Curtis just posted. He explained it really well too.

ps, I still love you even if we disagree.

But I do disagree. Even if what you say is true, greater is He who lives in me than he who lives in the world. :coffee:

The book of revelation is Speaking of this man of sin
When it talks about the beast king.
Do you not know that man himself dies
Do you think the devil can be Allowed to make a man Immortal?
Do you not understand the Although kingdoms have only one king,
many men sit on that throne as king
So each are truly THE KING?
What do you think antichrists ruling Over the kings of the earth of 1260 days meant?
Do you not understand it was prophetic number of days and not literal?
So it was 1260 years!
What One man lives that long?

 

[Ceptor]

Listening.... brother.. lol -- I am going to start calling you Talking. :laugh:


I didn't even get to edit my post before that showed up!

 

[Listening]

Listening.... brother.. lol -- I am going to start calling you Talking. :laugh:


I didn't even get to edit my post before that showed up!

Ok ,

Who is the great high priest of the universal church?

It is jesus.

Jesus is God the word made flesh
And so the son of God

The pope is not the great high priest, yet takes that title
Which is blasphemy, for The beast king is saying he and not jesus is the high priest
Each of the seven kings on the beast, also claimed to be high priest also
The eighth king was the beast king though and not the seven kings
But all had that same name of blasphemy
The 8 th king also kills the saints for 1260 prophetic days.
Just as the pope Killed them ( 100 MILLION OF THEM ) for 1260 years And the pope is of ROME the city of seven hills and the pope claims to be sovereign a king .

 

[Listening]

The pope we see now is the second beast
For the first beast Which Itself was the 8 king of that beast
Has a great wound As if to death to one of its heads by the sword
This Wound as if to death means the Extinction and seeMing death of the papacy that occurred in 1798
After 1260 years of rule over the kings of the earth and the murdering of 100 million saints.

So the pope we see now looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon
The dragon gave all the power to the first beast
It stands for that and for the devil who is a liar.

Claiming yourself the title of supreme high priest on the universal church
Is speaking like the devil

Setting up a power base by politics so you rule over the kings of the earth again
Is also speaking like the dragon.

 

[Listening]

I assure you the two witnesses will not be without the holy spirit
So no, the holy spirit will not be leaving the earth before the man of sin is revealed.


The Two Witnesses

1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The Witnesses Killed and Raised

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Revelation 11 KJV

 

[Listening]

The whole world followed the popes
While the popes murdered the saints
And the world basically ignored the deaths of the saints
Who preached the gospel of christ
For one thousand two hundred and three score days
And after that time i am sure the world started celebrating christmas
Meaning after 1798

Not really christmas but..


G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.


C.The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).[10]

 

[Listening]

All Israel Shall Be Saved

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Doxology


(Romans 16:25-27; Jude 1:24-25)



33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


Romans 11 KJV