Who And What Is A True Christian

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You still have this Wired wrong.
Look at John 15:5 again....Jesus produces the fruit, we bear it!...big-big difference.
You can't change the written word of God to fit your narrative, that is not good!

Rj Here is what John 15:5 says.........I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I have changed nothing............this says the same..........He is the vine or the source and we are the branches or we get life from Him and if we walk in His ways which means doing all of them RJ........then we will produce good fruit..........for with out Christ we will produce poor or bad fruit........for wee would walk in the way of the world.............RJ now this does not say.............just because you are born again and in Christ that you produce good fruits.......you must work and learn and change in order to develope these frutis of the spirit..........

So where have I changed anything RJ.......
Jim

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Again, scripturally this is not fruit...these are a sin....big-big difference! Jesus produces fruit, we produce sin!

RJ perhaps you might slow dowen and think for a moment........fruit is what is produced.........goodness or not so good
patient or not so patient.......loveing no matter what........some what loveing when they deserver it.

Every action produces some kind of results and this can be seen as fruits produced. So if your actions are not quite up to where they should be then you will be producing fruit of a lower class or poor and even rotten.

 

[RJ]

Rj Here is what John 15:5 says.........I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I have changed nothing............this says the same..........He is the vine or the source and we are the branches or we get life from Him and if we walk in His ways which means doing all of them RJ........then we will produce good fruit..........for with out Christ we will produce poor or bad fruit........for wee would walk in the way of the world.............RJ now this does not say.............just because you are born again and in Christ that you produce good fruits.......you must work and learn and change in order to develope these frutis of the spirit..........

So where have I changed anything RJ.......
Jim

the same bringeth forth much frui[/COLOR]t:

the same bringeth forth much fruit That is: the "same", (you , me, a Christian) we bringeth forth the fruit, we bear it, from THE ONE who Produces it, Jesus.!
No matter how you try to change the word of God, you can't change the truth!

 

[Travis]

I once hit my head on a door really hard..
I started reading this thread, and I began to have flashbacks of hitting my head on that door. That door really made my head hurt.

Spurgeon once said:

"A volcano is ever a volcano; even when it sleeps, trust it not. A lion is a lion, even though he play like a kid; and a serpent, is a serpent, even though you may stroke it while for a season it slumbers; there is still a venom in its sting when its azure scales invite the eye."
Indwelling Sin​

Likewise, that part of us, that is inside of us, deep down, even in our soul, still has a large proclivity for evil. It does not get weaker with age either, but grows stronger even as we grow spiritually stronger. Don't trust it, it's evil to the core.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

the same bringeth forth much fruit That is: the "same", (you , me, a Christian) we bringeth forth the fruit, we bear it, from THE ONE who Produces it, Jesus.!
No matter how you try to change the word of God, you can't change the truth!

RJ no disrespect meant here but you have things bottlenecked up here.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I once hit my head on a door really hard..
I started reading this thread, and I began to have flashbacks of hitting my head on that door. That door really made my head hurt.

Spurgeon once said:

"A volcano is ever a volcano; even when it sleeps, trust it not. A lion is a lion, even though he play like a kid; and a serpent, is a serpent, even though you may stroke it while for a season it slumbers; there is still a venom in its sting when its azure scales invite the eye."
Indwelling Sin​

Likewise, that part of us, that is inside of us, deep down, even in our soul, still has a large proclivity for evil. It does not get weaker with age either, but grows stronger even as we grow spiritually stronger. Don't trust it, it's evil to the core.

Blessings,

Travis

Greetings Travis,
Thank you for the good laugh, and the memory of running up the atic stairs to only pound my head into the top of the door jam and knocking my self out for a minute or two.....ouies that hurt..........I still made it to the church event though....
Hope things are going well
God Bless
Jim

 

[RJ]

RJ no disrespect meant here but you have things bottlenecked up here.

I have shown you scripture but you do not have a learning spirit.
You show me scripture that says that when we sin , that is the same as "bad fruit" and I may reconsider, otherwise move on to something else that you may be more versed at!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I have shown you scripture but you do not have a learning spirit.
You show me scripture that says that when we sin , that is the same as "bad fruit" and I may reconsider, otherwise move on to something else that you may be more versed at!

RJ Please do not go off and start accusing me like the past. You showed scripture and claim it to say something that it is not and for this I do not have a learning spirit. Brother you are starting to show some poor fruit here. Patience and love bro.
What is this move on stuff ?
Blessings RJ
JIm

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Fruits from flesh.......selfishness-anger-unforgiveness-doubt-fear and so forth and both of these can be done by a Chritian and you can also call it works of the flesh which is still fruit of the flesh or results.

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

This has nothing to do with what Jesus can or can not do. This has to do with how much of a change one has made and how much one is actually walking in the spirit........
God Bless

I think it has everything to do with what the lamb did from before the foundation.
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

I was raised up with with him and I am seated in him right now.
I am not making plans to sin in the future.
Whatever is not of faith is sin so I walk by faith in the spirit.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.


I think it has everything to do with what the lamb did from before the foundation.
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

I was raised up with with him and I am seated in him right now.
I am not making plans to sin in the future.
Whatever is not of faith is sin so I walk by faith in the spirit.

Brother greetings,
This is all true what you speak however this does not stop a Christian from acting out in the flesh. Those who have renewed their minds in Christ to the point where they are walking in the spirit and have control over their tongue and so forth then yes they will not be producing fruits of the flesh or results of acting in the flesh BUT not every one is this way.

My only point was that a Chrtistian is able to produce poor fruits. They do this from acting from the flesh or worldly way and not the spirit. Example......you see it in here a lot..........or any forum for that.........are they still Christians even though they blast and twist and so forth ? We would hasve to believe so However.......they are displaying a very poor reflection and or a dim light and have not arived to the place where their spirit man is the strongest in them....

Your scriptures are awesome and true and I believe them with out doubt...........However these scriptures to NOT make a Christian walk upright at all times. We must do our part..........EXAMPLE..........

Galatians 5:16 and Romans 12:2 and 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 for starters
Romans 12:2 ....
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

AS we learn to do this we become more and more Christ like and then we begin to see these fruits next

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh
This is when you start seeing or DEVELOPING those fruits of the spirit.

Every day we as Christians must take up our cross and deny the flesh..........other wise they tend to bounce from spirit to flesh and any time you act out of the flesh you have sown or produced or bore poor fruit...

God Bless You Brother
Jim

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Every day we as Christians must take up our cross and deny the flesh.

Yes,ouch
eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
Many people think eternal means from now on but that can't be correct because we can change.
God is eternal and God does not change.
If God says I am seated in Christ and my flesh claims differently then one of us is living under an illusion and I don't think it's God.

We are a new creature in Christ.Old things have passed away,Now all things are new,all things are of God.
"Now" is an eternal word because it always was, always is and always will be.
There is no future or past in eternity it is always now.
That now is the same now that I am experiencing now.
I am not experiencing the past right now and I am not experiencing the future either.
I will never experience the future because it is always in the future and when I approach the future it becomes now before I can get there.
Same with the past,I have never experienced the past because it was now back then.

If I am in Christ "now" then I was always there because there can be no change in eternity.
If I am not in Christ and perfected "now" then I am separated from God for eternity.
I am not sinning "now" so I am not sinning for eternity.
If I made a plan to sin in the future then I would have sin "now" and since the wages of sin is death then I would be dead "now"

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
If I respond to his voice "now" then I am in Christ and always was.
So the dead includes those who believe they are going to die.
Those who had a beginning will have an end.
Even if my earthly tent expires I will not die because I am not the flesh.
My experience will change to what it always was and that is with the Lord.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus the son of man was standing on this planet but he was actually in heaven because there can be no change in eternity.
The new creature in Christ that I am was always there so he is not new to God at all.He is only new to those who believe in the past and the future.
That's why Jesus is the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world even though it seemed to us that sacrifice happened two thousand years ago
but it really happened "now".
He is the Lamb in eternity but he is the alpha and omega to those separated from God eternally.
That would mean he began all,is all,ends all.
And in him we live and move and have our being.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Yes,ouch
eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
Many people think eternal means from now on but that can't be correct because we can change.
God is eternal and God does not change.
If God says I am seated in Christ and my flesh claims differently then one of us is living under an illusion and I don't think it's God.

We are a new creature in Christ.Old things have passed away,Now all things are new,all things are of God.
"Now" is an eternal word because it always was, always is and always will be.
There is no future or past in eternity it is always now.
That now is the same now that I am experiencing now.
I am not experiencing the past right now and I am not experiencing the future either.
I will never experience the future because it is always in the future and when I approach the future it becomes now before I can get there.
Same with the past,I have never experienced the past because it was now back then.

If I am in Christ "now" then I was always there because there can be no change in eternity.
If I am not in Christ and perfected "now" then I am separated from God for eternity.
I am not sinning "now" so I am not sinning for eternity.
If I made a plan to sin in the future then I would have sin "now" and since the wages of sin is death then I would be dead "now"

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
If I respond to his voice "now" then I am in Christ and always was.
So the dead includes those who believe they are going to die.
Those who had a beginning will have an end.
Even if my earthly tent expires I will not die because I am not the flesh.
My experience will change to what it always was and that is with the Lord.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus the son of man was standing on this planet but he was actually in heaven because there can be no change in eternity.
The new creature in Christ that I am was always there so he is not new to God at all.He is only new to those who believe in the past and the future.
That's why Jesus is the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world even though it seemed to us that sacrifice happened two thousand years ago
but it really happened "now".
He is the Lamb in eternity but he is the alpha and omega to those separated from God eternally.
That would mean he began all,is all,ends all.
And in him we live and move and have our being.

I am not sinning "now" so I am not sinning for eternity.
If I made a plan to sin in the future then I would have sin "now" and since the wages of sin is death then I would be dead "now"

Could you explain to me what you mean here ?
Thanks

 

[RJ]

Patience and love bro.
What is this move on stuff ?

Wired,
Patience and love have nothing to do with it, continuing to use scripture falsely does. I do love you, but there is nothing in scripture that says that I have to accept your theology!

John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

You simply can't take the above scripture and twist it around to suite your own purpose.
It says what it says: we bear the fruit of Jesus and apart from him, we can never and will never be able to produce Any fruit of our own.
Everyone, except you, knows that he is the vine. It is his fruit. WE are the branch. We bear his fruit.
The "move on stuff", as you say, means you have this completely wrong, and for some reason just won't admit it. So , please just move on to something else that , hopefully, you are more credible at! So, please, move on to a different subject and let this one go!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Everyone, except you, knows that he is the vine. It is his fruit. WE are the branch. We bear his fruit.

Yes,in the same manner the a bride produces offspring for the husband.

I am not sinning "now" so I am not sinning for eternity.
If I made a plan to sin in the future then I would have sin "now" and since the wages of sin is death then I would be dead "now"
Could you explain to me what you mean here ?
Thanks

Being seated in heavenly places is no joke,it is reality.
God's reality is the only reality.
God changes not.
Even as he is so are we in this world.
"Is" is "now","I am" is "now","are is "now" and "be " is "now".

"Will be" will always be "will be"
If you are will be "now" you will always be "will be.
Eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
There is no change without time and 1 second has nothing to do with eternity.
If you "will be perfect" then you are eternally "will be".perfect and that misses the mark.
Jesus told us to "be" perfect not become perfect.

The one who is from heaven can not sin because he is God's seed.
It takes faith to believe this because we see everything stuck in time and space.
We live in fear because things can change in time.
If we can change in time then we are not as he "is".
God calls those things that are not as though they were already.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The faith of God spoke us into Christ in eternal perfection whether we believe it or not.
If we say he will perfect us then we are not believing what he did in faith.
If God says I'm seated in perfection and I say I will be perfect someday,guess who's wrong.
"I am" perfect because of what Jesus did not what I do.

 

[RJ]

I am not sinning "now" so I am not sinning for eternity.

Even Paul said he stilled sinned in Romans 7. Wow, you are greater than he was I suppose.
Like the rest of us, It is impossible for you to not have some sort of sin in you life. As a true Christian, the point is you should have a repentant heart for those inequities and Like in Roman 8:1, when you do mess up, there is no condemnation. I think it it would be better if you checked your pride at the door!
Remember, God said he would look at our sin no more, he didn't say we wouldn't have sin no more....just that we are forgiven and there is no condemnation.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Even Paul said he stilled sinned in Romans 7. Wow, you are greater than he was I suppose.
Like the rest of us, It is impossible for you to not have some sort of sin in you life. As a true Christian, the point is you should have a repentant heart for those inequities and Like in Roman 8:1, when you do mess up, there is no condemnation. I think it it would be better if you checked your pride at the door!
Remember, God said he would look at our sin no more, he didn't say we wouldn't have sin no more....just that we are forgiven and there is no condemnation.

Wired was quoting me.

Is perfection/salvation dependant on what I do or what he did?
Paul said "it is no longer I"that sin.
In this context the "I" was Paul.

 

[RJ]

Is perfection/salvation dependant on what I do or what he did?

Absolutely what he does and continues to do!

Paul said "it is no longer I"that sin.

Paul doesn't mean that there is no sin that comes from him, only his flesh still produces some sin. With his spirit conjoined with Christ , there is no sin in him spiritually. Remember,he also says at this time that, he does what he doesn't do what he want to do and he does what he doesn't want to do. Paul knew very well that he was saved, but he also knew the struggle between the flesh and the spirit! His answer to this sin was that it was now not he, spiritually, that sinned but his flesh. His ultimate answer to this was Romans 8:1!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Wired,
Patience and love have nothing to do with it, continuing to use scripture falsely does. I do love you, but there is nothing in scripture that says that I have to accept your theology!

You simply can't take the above scripture and twist it around to suite your own purpose.
It says what it says: we bear the fruit of Jesus and apart from him, we can never and will never be able to produce Any fruit of our own.
Everyone, except you, knows that he is the vine. It is his fruit. WE are the branch. We bear his fruit.
The "move on stuff", as you say, means you have this completely wrong, and for some reason just won't admit it. So , please just move on to something else that , hopefully, you are more credible at! So, please, move on to a different subject and let this one go!

brother RJ,
The problem is you assume way to much.
Where did I say anything against Jesus being the vine and we are the branch or where did I say we can do nothing out side of Him.
You put a lot of words in my replies that are not there. Show me what I said that is not correct.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Even Paul said he stilled sinned in Romans 7. Wow, you are greater than he was I suppose.
Like the rest of us, It is impossible for you to not have some sort of sin in you life. As a true Christian, the point is you should have a repentant heart for those inequities and Like in Roman 8:1, when you do mess up, there is no condemnation. I think it it would be better if you checked your pride at the door!
Remember, God said he would look at our sin no more, he didn't say we wouldn't have sin no more....just that we are forgiven and there is no condemnation.

Brother RJ what in the world are you talken about here ?

 

[RJ]

You put a lot of words in my replies that are not there. Show me what I said that is not correct.

I sound like a broken record. I said:

Look at John 15:5 again....Jesus produces the fruit, we bear it!...big-big difference.

You said this:

Produce, bear is the same thing

No, that is incorrect, again and again: Jesus produces , we bear...they are not the same thing. This is where you are incorrect and refuse to admit!