Depart from Me, I Never Knew You ~ Meaning of Matthew 7:21-23

[Joeoboy123]

We are overcomers only in Christ. No amount of trying to perfect ourselves will work. We yield in submission to the Holy Spirit. He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it. We are not saved by our works! We have no room to boast about any part of the process of salvation, justification, sanctification, or holiness. It is all by the grace of God.

. who is actually doing the works if it is not our works ?...Also I read in rev somewhere that we overcome by the blood of the lamb. How do we overcome by the blood of the lamb ?

 

[grandmamary1219]

The most simple thing to remember is that we BELIEVE. That is our job, to believe in Jesus whom the Father sent to die for our sins..

Jesus said we fulfill the commandments of God by loving the LORD our GOD with all our heart, mind, and soul and loving our neighbor as we do ourselves.

He told us that the work of God is to BELIEVE in Jesus whom the Father sent.

We cannot be overcomers any other way. Jesus overcame FOR us. We who are in Christ therefore are overcomers by His blood, his death for our sins, his resurrection which defeated the grave FOR us.

If we love Him, we will obey Him, but this is not of ourselves. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. All parts of our salvation are done by Him. We only have to believe.

The Holy Spirit will produce fruit in our lives if we live in submission to Jesus. Any good works we do, therefore, are to God's glory alone and through God's spirit alone. Apart from Him, we can do nothing that will save ourselves from judgment, and nothing that will earn ourselves rewards at the Bema seat. Only what we do for Him, in Him, by Him is counted as righteous acts.

If we do anything for our own glory, we will receive only the applause of man. That will be our full reward. The Father does not reward our own righteous acts, as they are as filthy rags to him.

 

[RJ]

. who is actually doing the works if it is not our works ?...Also I read in rev somewhere that we overcome by the blood of the lamb. How do we overcome by the blood of the lamb ?

Joeboy, please understand that though you indeed bare the good works it is not yours, no more than you are actually holy, righteous or blameless but the one in you is. When you die and come before God, he doesn't look for your good deads but he looks to find Jesus in you.....John 15: 1-5

 

[Joeoboy123]

The most simple thing to remember is that we BELIEVE. That is our job, to believe in Jesus whom the Father sent to die for our sins..

Jesus said we fulfill the commandments of God by loving the LORD our GOD with all our heart, mind, and soul and loving our neighbor as we do ourselves.

He told us that the work of God is to BELIEVE in Jesus whom the Father sent.

We cannot be overcomers any other way. Jesus overcame FOR us. We who are in Christ therefore are overcomers by His blood, his death for our sins, his resurrection which defeated the grave FOR us.

If we love Him, we will obey Him, but this is not of ourselves. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. All parts of our salvation are done by Him. We only have to believe.

The Holy Spirit will produce fruit in our lives if we live in submission to Jesus. Any good works we do, therefore, are to God's glory alone and through God's spirit alone. Apart from Him, we can do nothing that will save ourselves from judgment, and nothing that will earn ourselves rewards at the Bema seat. Only what we do for Him, in Him, by Him is counted as righteous acts.

If we do anything for our own glory, we will receive only the applause of man. That will be our full reward. The Father does not reward our own righteous acts, as they are as filthy rags to him.

?.....
When a evil spirit has possessed a person it seems that person is controlled by the evil spirit. Is it the same with the holy spirit who is the spirit of christ in us that has now possessed us and now controls us ?...Is this the way christ in us obeys himself using us or controlling us to obey him ?

 

[RJ]

?.....
When a evil spirit has possessed a person it seems that person is controlled by the evil spirit. Is it the same with the holy spirit who is the spirit of christ in us that has now possessed us and now controls us ?...Is this the way christ in us obeys himself using us or controlling us to obey him ?

No, possession is to control. Possessive spirits are evil. God is not evil and he indwells in use as a sign of salvation and to guide and encourage us, not to control us. Once you faithfully believe and receive Christ in you, you just know that you are part of Christ's body to bare his fruit. Just like other things involving God is based on free will......we know this to be true but we can't truly explain it any more than we can explain that Jesus was truly God and truly Man at the same time or how Jesus was concieved,we just have faith that they occured and have peace in it!

 

[Taylor Barrett]

This is not a biblical answer. The truth is that we ARE called to REPENT. Even demons believe the Gospel. Believing the gospel is not enough, we must REPENT also. Those who say "Lord, Lord!!!" (obviously they do believe the Gospel, because they call Jesus "Lord"), but do not REPENT, they will not be saved. There is an evil spirit which believes the Bible but refuses to REPENT of their sin and live holy. This person, unless they grieve for forgiveness on their deathbed, will die and go to hell despite their faith.

 

[Joeoboy123]

This is not a biblical answer. The truth is that we ARE called to REPENT. Even demons believe the Gospel. Believing the gospel is not enough, we must REPENT also. Those who say "Lord, Lord!!!" (obviously they do believe the Gospel, because they call Jesus "Lord"), but do not REPENT, they will not be saved. There is an evil spirit which believes the Bible but refuses to REPENT of their sin and live holy. This person, unless they grieve for forgiveness on their deathbed, will die and go to hell despite their faith.

One should practise their faith and should not practise what they believe to be sin. But how does one repent from say heresy when they do not know which churches are teaching heresy and which only ONE true church that does not teach heresy ?.....You have all these different type churches and all accuse each other as being heretics and also they all have different views what all other sins are and disagree with each other regarding this using scripture to support their particular view what sin is or not. What type of particular church group do you attend ?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

One should practise their faith and should not practise what they believe to be sin. But how does one repent from say heresy when they do not know which churches are teaching heresy and which only ONE true church that does not teach heresy ?.....You have all these different type churches and all accuse each other as being heretics and also they all have different views what all other sins are and disagree with each other regarding this using scripture to support their particular view what sin is or not. What type of particular church group do you attend ?

I would answer your question by first asking you another question: What about people who grew up in satanic homes, being taught that salvation was in satan, and they tried their best their whole life to live for satan and to do what they believe would get them salvation?

The point i am trying to make is that we must believe the right things. ignorance is no excuse. God does not say, well, they didnt know any better, so its ok. If someone believes that homosexuality and drug use are ok because their church teaches they are ok, does that mean that The Holy Spirit is going to live inside that person while they commit acts of sorcery and unnatural fornication? No, The Holy Spirit will not live i that person. And if The Holy Spirit does not live in you, then the parable of the virgins with their oil lamps lets you know what happens.

at least, this is just my opinon.

 

[Joeoboy123]

I would answer your question by first asking you another question: What about people who grew up in satanic homes, being taught that salvation was in satan, and they tried their best their whole life to live for satan and to do what they believe would get them salvation?

The point i am trying to make is that we must believe the right things. ignorance is no excuse. God does not say, well, they didnt know any better, so its ok. If someone believes that homosexuality and drug use are ok because their church teaches they are ok, does that mean that The Holy Spirit is going to live inside that person while they commit acts of sorcery and unnatural fornication? No, The Holy Spirit will not live i that person. And if The Holy Spirit does not live in you, then the parable of the virgins with their oil lamps lets you know what happens.

at least, this is just my opinon.

In what sense do you mean by drug use. Some of us have medical conditions that require medication drug use everyday prescribed by a doctor. Would that be sorcery ?...I can see practising homosexual fornication is sin and the church of England has lost the plot regarding this along with having women bishops. I am more talking along the lines of the more difficult issues like either sat or sun church going or what you can eat and drink. Whether healing is for today or not. Trinity or not. Blood transfusions or not. Different views on predestination or end times. Etc etc. I could produce a long list of very difficult differnt views with all the different churches. You have papal supremacy or not between the Roman catholic church and the Greek orthodox catholic church. The orthodox church claim their roots go back to the time of the apostles and claiming they are the only one true church who is right in their teaching and the rest are wrong with the holy spirit living within them and the rest of the churches are in heresy or heredox. Yet you have people like benny hinn who left the orthodox church and set up his own church with his version of the holy spirit taking millions in donations. The orthodox church say benny hinn is deceived by the angel of light as even the elect can be deceived. I will be frank with you. At present I do not attend any church in case I might get caught up in the sin of heresy. I know of others in the same boat. Do we sin by not going to a church ?......what church would you suggest ?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

In what sense do you mean by drug use. Some of us have medical conditions that require medication drug use everyday prescribed by a doctor. Would that be sorcery ?...I can see practising homosexual fornication is sin and the church of England has lost the plot regarding this along with having women bishops. I am more talking along the lines of the more difficult issues like either sat or sun church going or what you can eat and drink. Whether healing is for today or not. Trinity or not. Blood transfusions or not. Different views on predestination or end times. Etc etc. I could produce a long list of very difficult differnt views with all the different churches. You have papal supremacy or not between the Roman catholic church and the Greek orthodox catholic church. The orthodox church claim their roots go back to the time of the apostles and claiming they are the only one true church who is right in their teaching and the rest are wrong with the holy spirit living within them and the rest of the churches are in heresy or heredox. Yet you have people like benny hinn who left the orthodox church and set up his own church with his version of the holy spirit taking millions in donations. The orthodox church say benny hinn is deceived by the angel of light as even the elect can be deceived. I will be frank with you. At present I do not attend any church in case I might get caught up in the sin of heresy. I know of others in the same boat. Do we sin by not going to a church ?......what church would you suggest ?

You answered your own question.

"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 4:17

Most of those difficult issues you listed are not important regarding salvation. Salvation is based on repentance and faith in the finished work of Christ Crucified.

To be honest, i think in today's day and age, if the church believes that the book of Genesis is literally, plainly true; and if they believe that homosexuality is a sin, and if they believe that faith in the finished work of Christ is the only means of salvation... then the church shouild be good.

I say that because I think the vast majority of apostate churches will show their true color on those main issues.. = evolution, homosexuality, and the exclusivity of Christ.

but thats just my opinion... based on my understanding of The Word of God.

As for your question about medically prescribed drug use... i think the line is drawn in the sand when people are using drugs to change reality in order to communicate with spirits.

 

[DHC]

You answered your own question.

"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 4:17

Most of those difficult issues you listed are not important regarding salvation. Salvation is based on repentance and faith in the finished work of Christ Crucified.

To be honest, i think in today's day and age, if the church believes that the book of Genesis is literally, plainly true; and if they believe that homosexuality is a sin, and if they believe that faith in the finished work of Christ is the only means of salvation... then the church shouild be good.

I say that because I think the vast majority of apostate churches will show their true color on those main issues.. = evolution, homosexuality, and the exclusivity of Christ.

but thats just my opinion... based on my understanding of The Word of God.

As for your question about medically prescribed drug use... i think the line is drawn in the sand when people are using drugs to change reality in order to communicate with spirits.

Hello Taylor Barret.

Your idea of what the modern church should stand for seems confused.

To be honest, i think in today's day and age, if the church believes that the book of Genesis is literally, plainly true;
and if they believe that homosexuality is a sin, and if they believe that faith in the finished work of Christ is the only
means of salvation... then the church shouild be good.

Why does homosexuality get a mention but a host of other sexual sins do not?

Why does a literal interpretation of Genesis get a mention but eschatology say does not?

You said 'the finished work of Christ is the only means of salvation' and what do you mean
by that statement?

If a church has no opinion on evolution or homosexuality how do you rate that church?

 

[Joeoboy123]

You answered your own question.

"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 4:17

Most of those difficult issues you listed are not important regarding salvation. Salvation is based on repentance and faith in the finished work of Christ Crucified.

To be honest, i think in today's day and age, if the church believes that the book of Genesis is literally, plainly true; and if they believe that homosexuality is a sin, and if they believe that faith in the finished work of Christ is the only means of salvation... then the church shouild be good.

I say that because I think the vast majority of apostate churches will show their true color on those main issues.. = evolution, homosexuality, and the exclusivity of Christ.

but thats just my opinion... based on my understanding of The Word of God.

As for your question about medically prescribed drug use... i think the line is drawn in the sand when people are using drugs to change reality in order to communicate with spirits.

How do you understand Romans 2:13-15 ?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Hello Taylor Barret.

Your idea of what the modern church should stand for seems confused.

Why does homosexuality get a mention but a host of other sexual sins does not?

Why does a literal interpretation of Genesis get a mention but eschatology say does not?

You said 'the finished work of Christ is the only means of salvation' and what do you mean
by that statement?

If a church has no opinion on evolution or homosexuality how do you rate that church?

You dont understand why I said those things?

it has to do with the authority of scripture, and it has to do with the state of the modern church world.

if you look at the apostate churches, almost all of them believe in homosexuality and evolution.

Jesus is very clear: "No one comes to the Father except by me>" & "He who does not believe in me is already condemned because they have not believed in God's only Son"


If a church can not step out and say that The Bible is The Word of God and therefore accurate in condemning homosexuality and in correct in its description of creation; then in my opinion that church is basically worthless.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

How do you understand Romans 2:13-15 ?

it needs to be put in context. The next verse says that their conscience will accuse them, therefore they are guilty.

"in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."

 

[Joeoboy123]

it needs to be put in context. The next verse says that their conscience will accuse them, therefore they are guilty.

"in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."

Are they all guilty ?...What about the part of the verse that talks about or excusing regarding their conscience ?.....Christianty did not reach America untill the 16th century. Before that the Indians had no chance of hearing about Jesus Christ . How was they saved ?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Are they all guilty ?...What about the part of the verse that talks about or excusing regarding their conscience ?.....Christianty did not reach America untill the 16th century. Before that the Indians had no chance of hearing about Jesus Christ . How was they saved ?

Everyone who has ever lived anywhere... Guilty. We are all guilty of sin.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)

Only those thay God chose before the foundation of the world, "the elect", will be saved. And they are a very few.
The vast majority of people who have ever lived will be in hell.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Mathew 7:13-14)

How can a guilty sinner escape judgment unless he has given his allegiance completely to Christ who paid his penalty? Otherwise he has a penalty to face that there is no escaping.

But I see a slight chance for a very few people who never knew Christ to have been saved... if they searched for God with all their heart:

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)

&

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion ."
(Romans 9:15)


But I personally have no problem with God sending everyone to hell who never knew Christ.

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion ." For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "F or this very purpose I raised you up , to demonstrate M y power in you , and that M y name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth ." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles."
(Romans 9:15, 17-24)

 

[RJ]

How do you understand Romans 2:13-15 ?

If I may , this is pretty straight forward when you adhere to salvation by grace alone.

• Hearing the law, we have all heard or been taught the the Ten Commandments for instance. Hearing of the law does not make you righteous and save you.
• Going to church and hearing the word of God or reading the Bible does not make you righteous and saved.
• Only the doers of the law are righteous and saved. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. As Jeremiah prophisied, Jesus fulfills the law by indwelling in you and righting God's law on your heart and on your mind. You are a doer of the law or allow Jesus to fulfill the law in you by being "Born Again"!

 

[Joeoboy123]

Everyone who has ever lived anywhere... Guilty. We are all guilty of sin.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)

Only those thay God chose before the foundation of the world, "the elect", will be saved. And they are a very few.
The vast majority of people who have ever lived will be in hell.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Mathew 7:13-14)

How can a guilty sinner escape judgment unless he has given his allegiance completely to Christ who paid his penalty? Otherwise he has a penalty to face that there is no escaping.

But I see a slight chance for a very few people who never knew Christ to have been saved... if they searched for God with all their heart:

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)

&

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion ."
(Romans 9:15)


But I personally have no problem with God sending everyone to hell who never knew Christ.

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion ." For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "F or this very purpose I raised you up , to demonstrate M y power in you , and that M y name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth ." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles."
(Romans 9:15, 17-24)

I agree. We had the prostitute who protected the 2 spies by lying in the old testament who was a gentile and she was saved. The holy spirit is omnipresesent who is the spirit of christ can talk to anyone who never heard of christ and if they are led by there conscience doing the right thing would be saved.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

I agree. We had the prostitute who protected the 2 spies by lying in the old testament who was a gentile and she was saved. The holy spirit is omnipresesent who is the spirit of christ can talk to anyone who never heard of christ and if they are led by there conscience doing the right thing would be saved.

I do not think Rahab was "saved" (as in, will be in heaven) because she protected the 2 spies. But the troops of Israel spared her life because she protected the 2 spies. If she will be in Heaven, it would probably be because of a conversion to Judaism and her placing her faith in what the sacrificial system therein represented, ie the coming messiah. Remember, salvation is not by works. Someone who never knew Jesus will not enter Heaven because they have done good things. The only possible way they could enter is through faith, searching for God almighty with all their heart. And then maybe they could be justified by The Holy Spirit, and be grafted in to the body of Christ and covered by His blood. But remember, this is not really totally "biblical", so dont place your faith in it. Respect God's right to do as he will, and do not be sad if everyone who has ever lived and has not accepted Jesus goes to hell.

 

[Shutterbug]

This thread has been far from boring with some good advice and information.

If God is perfect, then His will is perfect, His nature is perfect, and His laws (both literal and physical) are perfect. If God does not change, then his Law does not change and it becomes absolute. As we mature in our faith through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we work toward achieving that state of perfection. Genesis states that we're made in the image of God, but the Devil has made it his goal to discourage us from perfectly knowing what that image is. We are human and prone to falling short of the mark (sin). Therefore our goal is to work toward that mark of perfection which we will receive in the after life, not in our present one.

Because Society periodically changes its mind on the rules governing itself, its Law is not perfect. If the Law is subject to change, then it is not absolute and therefore it become lawless in consistency and nature.

If we do as commanded, we will love the Lord with all our heart and mind, and love our neighbour as ourselves. We must turn away from doing as the World desires which is against seeking the will of God by substituting its own. Therefore, we shall yearn to seek the will of God because of our love for Him. If His will is that no man should perish, it is our bounden duty to spread the Good News and be a good role model in support of it. Faith alone will not do it as that can be self-serving, doing good works without faith will not do it as that can also be self-serving. Combining our faith of doing the works of our heavenly Father according to His will through a good conscience is what gets us rewarded.

Repentance through Jesus Christ, getting baptized by water and by the Holy Spirit, and striving to know the heart of God is our mission in life. Satan does not want that and our rebelling likewise suits his purposes just fine. We must make a conscious effort to thwart him and be prepared to be the blameless role model which Jesus expects of his disciples. Sadly, there exists far too many church denominations and religions. Their number only serves to add confusion and creates an illusion of God, and ultimately the Church which is to be the bride of the Lamb.

I'm just an old sailor, folks. I'm being very general in my comment. It is easier for some than others, but is there anything with which God will not help us if we honestly seek His will?

Cheers,
John Phil 4:8