Depart from Me, I Never Knew You ~ Meaning of Matthew 7:21-23

[TaylorDonBarret]

Mikej, I am glad that you are trying your best to follow the dictates of your conscience. I am also glad that you are feel empowered to obey the law, as if is just as simple as "knowing it and doing it". That, to me, is evidence that you might have The Holy Spirit living inside of you - because without The Holy Spirit living inside you - you could not so easily obey the Law.

However, you brought up many different concepts and ideas; and I believe you have made some serious errors in your judgements concerning a couple different things. But, the point of this discussion is whether or not born-again Christians are under the Law of Moses. and We are not. Jesus fulfilled the law. We are not under that Law or that covenant. There is nothing in the bible which speaks of "segments of the law", it is an unbiblical concept to talk about one part of the law being in effect but another part not being in effect. When the bible speaks of the law, it speaks of the entire law. If one iota is still in effect, then the whole thing is still in effect. if one iota is fulfilled, then the whole thing is fulfilled.

Again, I ask you this question= the law commands that you stone to death any known homosexual, adulterer, or sabbath breaker. are you obeying the law?

 

[mikej]

Mikej, I am glad that you are trying your best to follow the dictates of your conscience. I am also glad that you are feel empowered to obey the law, as if is just as simple as "knowing it and doing it". That, to me, is evidence that you might have The Holy Spirit living inside of you - because without The Holy Spirit living inside you - you could not so easily obey the Law.

However, you brought up many different concepts and ideas; and I believe you have made some serious errors in your judgements concerning a couple different things. But, the point of this discussion is whether or not born-again Christians are under the Law of Moses. and We are not. Jesus fulfilled the law. We are not under that Law or that covenant. There is nothing in the bible which speaks of "segments of the law", it is an unbiblical concept to talk about one part of the law being in effect but another part not being in effect. When the bible speaks of the law, it speaks of the entire law. If one iota is still in effect, then the whole thing is still in effect. if one iota is fulfilled, then the whole thing is fulfilled.

Again, I ask you this question= the law commands that you stone to death any known homosexual, adulterer, or sabbath breaker. are you obeying the law?

You can do better than this to prove your point can't you.again if you think it has been aborgated it is your choice to do as you please.to your question did God say those that commit such to be stoned or did I say they were to be stoned.you keep saying you must stone.first of all those that committed such acts were facing gods punisent not mine. Did I write the bible or did you. We today have the death penalty still in effect in some states or do you want to dispute that also.first thing no ONE person was to stone anyone. They were brought before the congregation of Israel with more than enough evidence to find one guilty. Jesus had no choice but to tell the women caught in the very act of adultery because those who brought her presented her alone without the male counter part.if she would have been stoned under those accusations alone he would have presented himself as a unjust judge knowing try were just trying to prove a point and had not the love of God in them.Most likely knowing one if not all accusing her were guilty of the same offence. The only reason they asked this question is simmar to your motivation.you put a lot of thought in to your post to extract your system of beliefs to get that gotcha moment. You have added nothing to your genious instead trumpeted your ignorance.now let me ask you this single question do you think those who commit theses thing will inherit the any portion of heaven.Seems to me you only make excuse for sin where everyone gets a get out of jail free pass.as for the word fulfill does it not say in your Strongs; to make replete to suff gorge satiate now when the cup get full it is complete or to its end but when thy cup runneth over where dose the substance of things hoped for go do they evaporate stop there with the knowledge that Jesus was the son of God.the devil himself knows and dose tremble are we not supposed to know more than he does? please tell me if you know the differance of between impunity and forgiveness.further more you are not under the law in respct to time and position as the verse clearly states with a dillegent study to show yourself approved in time you come out from under it because you now know it to a manner acceptable to God not to yourself.why do you keep trying to promote sin. Did you know the idea of the Ten Commandments alone came from rabbinical Judaism the very ones you say killed the savior and you would be right . Do your homework please before you come with this old wore out stuff I have heard over and over . Thank you for your question

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Mike, I am not promoting sin. I thoroughly believe that repentance is necessary for salvation. "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father". Faith without works is dead. I take obedience seriously!

Here is the difference = I understand that the Old Testament covenant has been fulfilled and replaced with a much better one! Christ said "It is finished". The Kingdom is no longer a matter of eating meat, but rather it is about living life in the Spirit and putting to death the works of the flesh.

There are many, many, many great laws found in the old testament, that are still good laws to follow today. We know which laws from the old testament are still good laws today based on what the New testament teaches us.

 

[mikej]

You can do better than this to prove your point can't you.again if you think it has been aborgated it is your choice to do as you please.to your question did God say those that commit such to be stoned or did I say they were to be stoned.you keep saying you must stone.first of all those that committed such acts were facing gods punisent not mine. Did I write the bible or did you. We today have the death penalty still in effect in some states or do you want to dispute that also.first thing no ONE person was to stone anyone. They were brought before the congregation of Israel with more than enough evidence to find one guilty. Jesus had no choice but to tell the women caught in the very act of adultery because those who brought her presented her alone without the male counter part.if she would have been stoned under those accusations alone he would have presented himself as a unjust judge knowing try were just trying to prove a point and had not the love of God in them.Most likely knowing one if not all accusing her were guilty of the same offence. The only reason they asked this question is simmar to your motivation.you put a lot of thought in to your post to extract your system of beliefs to get that gotcha moment. You have added nothing to your genious instead trumpeted your ignorance.now let me ask you this single question do you think those who commit theses thing will inherit the any portion of heaven.Seems to me you only make excuse for sin where everyone gets a get out of jail free pass.as for the word fulfill does it not say in your Strongs; to make replete to suff gorge satiate now when the cup get full it is complete or to its end but when thy cup runneth over where dose the substance of things hoped for go do they evaporate stop there with the knowledge that Jesus was the son of God.the devil himself knows and dose tremble are we not supposed to know more than he does? please tell me if you know the differance of between impunity and forgiveness.further more you are not under the law in respct to time and position as the verse clearly states with a dillegent study to show yourself approved in time you come out from under it because you now know it to a manner acceptable to God not to yourself.why do you keep trying to promote sin. Did you know the idea of the Ten Commandments alone came from rabbinical Judaism the very ones you say killed the savior and you would be right . Do your homework please before you come with this old wore out stuff I have heard over and over . Thank you for your question

Please try reading the old tesent in the original language that's all you have to do to know if I am right or wrong.there are grey areas that without doing this is the very reason these kind of conversations get here.i don't say this for no reason

 

[mikej]

For

Mike, I am not promoting sin. I thoroughly believe that repentance is necessary for salvation. "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father". Faith without works is dead. I take obedience seriously!

Here is the difference = I understand that the Old Testament covenant has been fulfilled and replaced with a much better one! Christ said "It is finished". The Kingdom is no longer a matter of eating meat, but rather it is about living life in the Spirit and putting to death the works of the flesh.

There are many, many, many great laws found in the old testament, that are still good laws to follow today. We know which laws from the old testament are still good laws today based on what the New testament teaches us.

the love of Pete please please go to the verse where he says many will come in THAT day saying they did cast out Devils prophesied and didany wonder full works. Then he says depart from me ye that do iniquity = anomia Strongs [HASHTAG]#458[/HASHTAG] is root word from where it derives its understanding is anomas = destitute of the law of Moses. This is in context with scripture that is what the dictionary does for you. You say I have doctrinal misunderstanding. tell me I'm here . I have asked you guys this question several times but no one will even touch this one. You can't change what it says can you if it doesn't fit make it.please do look into to it this is the only way you will change my kid on the subject of I'm don't it is your duty as a Christian to find the truth. My sole is in your hands don't let me down . I will be eating on your post please hurry back

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Why would reading the Old testament in the original language clear anything up ?

We have reliable translations.

Besides, which language do you consider the original language... the Hebrew version that the Jews use, or the Greek Septuagint that Jesus and the Apostles used?

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

For

the love of Pete please please go to the verse where he says many will come in THAT day saying they did cast out Devils prophesied and didany wonder full works. Then he says depart from me ye that do iniquity = anomia Strongs [HASHTAG]#458[/HASHTAG] is root word from where it derives its understanding is anomas = destitute of the law of Moses. This is in context with scripture that is what the dictionary does for you. You say I have doctrinal misunderstanding. tell me I'm here . I have asked you guys this question several times but no one will even touch this one. You can't change what it says can you if it doesn't fit make it.please do look into to it this is the only way you will change my kid on the subject of I'm don't it is your duty as a Christian to find the truth. My sole is in your hands don't let me down . I will be eating on your post please hurry back

Mikej, your soul is not in my hands, or in anyone else's hands. Your soul is in God's hands.

Going back to your idea that the greek word "anomia" means 'destitute of the law of Moses'; that would be incorrect. The word simply means lawlessness.

Now, you are probably under the teaching of some Judaizer who has told you that "lawlessness" and Torah-lessness are the same thing, and that lawlessness means breaking the Torah (the law), in the sense of breaking the commands found in the book "The Torah".

But that would again be wrong. In the New Testament "Law" is the law of Christ. The Law of Moses was for a specific people for a specific time.

But you will say.. "God never changes."

Ok, thats fine.

Does God still want you to gather in a congregation with other believers and stone to death those who two or three witnesses can testify that they broke the sabbath?

Remember, God does not change.

 

[Michele]

What happens when everyone discovers that the WORD has NEVER CHANGED!!!
Jesus did not come to remove the LAW or the PROPHETS....but to fulfill
The 10 Commandments still stand today.....The Spirit of Defiance lingers in our churches....
Eg Keeping the Sabbath Holy that is Friday from sun down till Saturday till sun down.
Jesus lived it, taught it by example, promised he would not take it away.....300 years later some Romans compromise Gods Commandment. Who do we honour? God? Jesus? or Constantine?
Eg Jesus teaches that God HATES DIVORCE!!!......only the hardness of their hearts Moses allowed for it.
Do not commit Adultery, Do not Covet your neighbour's ...., Jesus sums up the ten commandments in two ...basically Love God and Love your neighbour. Broken Families is not something that the real church of Christ would have ever condoned. If you Love God and Seek to Do His Will you are ready to harvest. If you believe that Christ died on the Cross so that you can sin guilt free and that He literally died to do away with the ten commandments and replace them with a feel-good, easy paved slide to salvation...then you know!!!! the verse above is meant for you. The road to salvation is narrow!!! Don't allow Satan to lull you into a fatal misconception. Do not throw out Judaism/Messianic Message....it is the Message of our Saviour.

 

[mikej]

Mikej, your soul is not in my hands, or in anyone else's hands. Your soul is in God's hands.

Going back to your idea that the greek word "anomia" means 'destitute of the law of Moses'; that would be incorrect. The word simply means lawlessness.

Now, you are probably under the teaching of some Judaizer who has told you that "lawlessness" and Torah-lessness are the same thing, and that lawlessness means breaking the Torah (the law), in the sense of breaking the commands found in the book "The Torah".

But that would again be wrong. In the New Testament "Law" is the law of Christ. The Law of Moses was for a specific people for a specific time.

But you will say.. "God never changes."

Ok, thats fine.

Does God still want you to gather in a congregation with other believers and stone to death those who two or three witnesses can testify that they broke the sabbath?

Remember, God does not change.

This foolishness could go on for ever you believe what you will based on your explanation you can't or will not admit when you are wrong even with the poof before you.pary to the pope if that's truth to you

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Ok guys and gals.

I will stick with 2,000 years of historic, traditonal Christianity, inspired by The Holy Spirit, and the plain teachings of the New Testament.

You guys can go with what you want to go with.

Regards,
-Taylor

 

[DHC]

Hello Michele.

After reading your post, it is very clear Michele that you have been taught a rather faulty interpretation.

You made the statement.

The 10 Commandments still stand today.

The commandments of the New Covenant, are somewhat different to the commandments of the Old Covenant Michele. For example, the law of Moses states, 'you shall not commit adultery', that is Michele, the letter of the law.

Now if we search for the equivalent New Covenant commandment, we find the following command from the apostle Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4
2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual
immorality

Notice the difference Michele, Paul does not quote the Old Covenant commandment
against adultery to the Gentiles. Paul delivers the commandment given by the Holy Spirit
against sexual transgression to the Gentiles. One is the letter of the law and is obsolete.
The other is the commandment of the Holy Spirit to the Gentile churches.

Any questions that you may have on this topic Michele, feel free to ask?

 

[mikej]

Hello Michele.

After reading your post, it is very clear Michele that you have been taught a rather faulty interpretation.

You made the statement.



The commandments of the New Covenant, are somewhat different to the commandments of the Old Covenant Michele. For example, the law of Moses states, 'you shall not commit adultery', that is Michele, the letter of the law.

Now if we search for the equivalent New Covenant commandment, we find the following command from the apostle Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4
2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual
immorality

Notice the difference Michele, Paul does not quote the Old Covenant commandment
against adultery to the Gentiles. Paul delivers the commandment given by the Holy Spirit
against sexual transgression to the Gentiles. One is the letter of the law and is obsolete.
The other is the commandment of the Holy Spirit to the Gentile churches.

Any questions that you may have on this topic Michele, feel free to ask?

Oh boy here we go again. Michelle you are correct this guy keeps repetitive the company line and thinks God said what he is preaching hold fast to your beloved faith you have it right.it is the same old wore out stuff you have heard all your life. You know God does not change it would be much safer to stand on that of which you already know. Let no man decieve your your on the right track. God bless you

 

[mikej]

What happens when everyone discovers that the WORD has NEVER CHANGED!!!
Jesus did not come to remove the LAW or the PROPHETS....but to fulfill
The 10 Commandments still stand today.....The Spirit of Defiance lingers in our churches....
Eg Keeping the Sabbath Holy that is Friday from sun down till Saturday till sun down.
Jesus lived it, taught it by example, promised he would not take it away.....300 years later some Romans compromise Gods Commandment. Who do we honour? God? Jesus? or Constantine?
Eg Jesus teaches that God HATES DIVORCE!!!......only the hardness of their hearts Moses allowed for it.
Do not commit Adultery, Do not Covet your neighbour's ...., Jesus sums up the ten commandments in two ...basically Love God and Love your neighbour. Broken Families is not something that the real church of Christ would have ever condoned. If you Love God and Seek to Do His Will you are ready to harvest. If you believe that Christ died on the Cross so that you can sin guilt free and that He literally died to do away with the ten commandments and replace them with a feel-good, easy paved slide to salvation...then you know!!!! the verse above is meant for you. The road to salvation is narrow!!! Don't allow Satan to lull you into a fatal misconception. Do not throw out Judaism/Messianic Message....it is the Message of our Saviour.

You are right in your belief by the law we learn what sin is so stoning and adultery would have no place in our life. By knowing the law is the very reason we don't commit such things. The law through Christ makes this common knowledge if there is no ofence there is no law to convict. If there is no conviction you are then set free by any law.this is so easy to see it was the by the law we learned this.if it were aborgated we would all be doomed.this guy apparently don't think like this he must not know the law was written for sinners not for the righteous. This is what Jesus ment when he said it. At this point why does he even brings up stoning and adultery it makes no sense.to us the statement is unclean from its conception.why take utter sin and try to make a child like analogy.

 

[mikej]

You are right in your belief by the law we learn what sin is so stoning and adultery would have no place in our life. By knowing the law is the very reason we don't commit such things. The law through Christ makes this common knowledge if there is no ofence there is no law to convict. If there is no conviction you are then set free by any law.this is so easy to see it was the by the law we learned this.if it were aborgated we would all be doomed.this guy apparently don't think like this he must not know the law was written for sinners not for the righteous. This is what Jesus ment when he said it. At this point why does he even brings up stoning and adultery it makes no sense.to us the statement is unclean from its conception.why take utter sin and try to make a child like analogy.

Hello Michele.

After reading your post, it is very clear Michele that you have been taught a rather faulty interpretation.

You made the statement.



The commandments of the New Covenant, are somewhat different to the commandments of the Old Covenant Michele. For example, the law of Moses states, 'you shall not commit adultery', that is Michele, the letter of the law.

Now if we search for the equivalent New Covenant commandment, we find the following command from the apostle Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4
2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual
immorality

Notice the difference Michele, Paul does not quote the Old Covenant commandment
against adultery to the Gentiles. Paul delivers the commandment given by the Holy Spirit
against sexual transgression to the Gentiles. One is the letter of the law and is obsolete.
The other is the commandment of the Holy Spirit to the Gentile churches.

Any questions that you may have on this topic Michele, feel free to ask?

Hello Dee.

In answer to my question regarding Paul's statement (Romans 6:14), you replied with the following statement.



This statement you made is incorrect and illogical. Salvation is never conditional Dee, because if salvation was in
any way conditional, then salvation could never be called a free gift. Our salvation is always understood as a free gift
and never something that we can earn.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eternal life in Jesus Christ is a free gift, in fact Dee, this is what Grace really means. That is why Paul calls the Gospel
of Jesus Christ, the Gospel of Grace (Acts 20:24)

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

We are saved by the Grace of God and this gift of salvation is absolutely free, no strings attached.
Please note: 'and that not of yourselves', never do we contribute to the gift of salvation.

If you attempt to place a conditional clause upon this free gift of salvation, then you are altering the teaching of the apostle
Paul. If Paul calls it a free gift, then salvation will always be freely available, given to all who call on the name of the Lord!

gentiles were with out God without hope without law God forgave them of the sin of not know the law to bring them into the same covenant as Abraham. This was a opertunity to who so ever will. It was unconditional it had to be without the law they were helpless to sin.look at it this way it was a door way into the house not to ruin it.Jesus said plainly if you did not believe Moses how could you believe me. The two are the same the Ten Commandments are exceedingly sinful now I ask what about the sabbath and keeping it holly. When did the sabbath change to Sunday who changed it?

 

[mikej]

You are right in your belief by the law we learn what sin is so stoning and adultery would have no place in our life. By knowing the law is the very reason we don't commit such things. The law through Christ makes this common knowledge if there is no ofence there is no law to convict. If there is no conviction you are then set free by any law.this is so easy to see it was the by the law we learned this.if it were aborgated we would all be doomed.this guy apparently don't think like this he must not know the law was written for sinners not for the righteous. This is what Jesus ment when he said it. At this point why does he even brings up stoning and adultery it makes no sense.to us the statement is unclean from its conception.why take utter sin and try to make a child like analogy.

This foolishness could go on for ever you believe what you will based on your explanation you can't or will not admit when you are wrong even with the poof before you.pary to the pope if that's truth to you

Yes lawlessness to the law of Moses you can not by any explanation of any know to man make it mean a trangression against civil law.%110 absolutely impossible.the strong dictionary put it in context period.

 

[DHC]

gentiles were with out God without hope without law God forgave them of the sin of not know the law to bring them into the same covenant as Abraham. This was a opertunity to who so ever will. It was unconditional it had to be without the law they were helpless to sin.look at it this way it was a door way into the house not to ruin it.Jesus said plainly if you did not believe Moses how could you believe me. The two are the same the Ten Commandments are exceedingly sinful now I ask what about the sabbath and keeping it holly. When did the sabbath change to Sunday who changed it?

Romans 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has
fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You
shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed
up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a
neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[mikej]

Romans 13
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has
fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You
shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed
up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a
neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

This is the elementary way of expressing the heart of Torah. Let's examine the audiance of the day. Most knew nothing of this new expression of faith. therefore it also says on theses things suspend or hang in the idea of lifting up the law.to have said much more about the law of which they knew nothing of being gentile or of the Talmud rabbinical teachings.the entire message would have been lost with to much information they could not absorb knowing no more than they did at the time.nothing was said to take away from the law just a elementary explanation at such time they were not able to bear/ understand.also to fulfil you first have to do the act mentioned in order to fulfill anything.in the case you have mentions it would mean to make replete question is what do you do with the excess just because a vessel becomes full does not mean it doesn't spill over to the next person .inderstanding the law fulfills or I should say makes love replete.with this God remains the same. Hope this helps someone

 

[mikej]

Did you realize you just quoted the same commandments given to Moses !

 

[B-A-C]

Nahum 1:7; The Lord is good,
A stronghold in the day of trouble,
And He knows those who trust in Him.

 

[DHC]

Did you realize you just quoted the same commandments given to Moses !

Hello Mike.

You made the following statement in your previous post.

Did you realize you just quoted the same commandments given to Moses!

To be precise Mike, Paul was quoting from the law of Moses, I was not the one quoting the
commandments from the law of Moses.

You may have missed the idea that Paul was talking about in his letter to the Romans.

Paul is not saying that we are under the law of Moses, far from it. Paul is actually saying
that love fulfills the law.

Romans 13
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

If I was quoting from the law of Moses for the purpose of instruction, then I would need to be
circumcised. Anyone who wishes to follow the laws of Moses must be circumcised.

I much prefer the New Covenant commandments, for example the one below.

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

I can quote this New Covenant commandment in an instructional manner, without the
requirement to be circumcised.