Do we have freewill ? did we have freewill since the beginning ?

[Curtis]

To have "free will" there must be "options" to "choose" from. You are either being influenced by "light" or "darkness" there is no in-between.

Mat 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,
Mat 6:23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

God definitely does, but we don't. Never had, and never will. God is beyond the time-space continuum, He is the beginning and the end because he created everything in the first place. It's like we're in a universe of simulation, and he's playing and controlling from the outside, the Bible is like a script recorded from the people of Israel's perspective. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, I'm just using that as an analogy.

However, back to us, we definitely have a free will, we can think of anything, we can let our fantasy run wild, we can create our own universe in our mind, but the thing is, what we actually DO in reality highly depends on how strong our HABITs are. Why I'm repeatedly bringing this up? Because habits are like inertia, a tendency to remain in its previous status, so whatever you've been doing, you have a tendency to continue doing it, whereas free will is a spiritual power to OVERCOME this inertia. The biggest obstable is not peer pressure or other external conditions, it's the inertia of your own habits.

I like the way you worded that, and I like your use of inertia into this topic and overcoming that tendency.

In my opinion I think that is a brilliant illustration. Thank you.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I like the way you worded that, and I like your use of inertia into this topic and overcoming that tendency.

In my opinion I think that is a brilliant illustration. Thank you.

You're welcome, I've got that from a sermon about building our "spiritual momentum." You know, momentum is the kind of kinetic energy in a moving object, also a basic concept in the realm of physics, and when you talks about momentum, inertia naturally follows.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

You're welcome, I've got that from a sermon about building our "spiritual momentum." You know, momentum is the kind of kinetic energy in a moving object, also a basic concept in the realm of physics, and when you talks about momentum, inertia naturally follows.

Indeed, yes I enjoy physics.

I've even came up with my own formulas related to various things, but I'll save you the long explanation.

Thanks again, great illustration indeed.

 

[Bill]

You're welcome, I've got that from a sermon about building our "spiritual momentum." You know, momentum is the kind of kinetic energy in a moving object, also a basic concept in the realm of physics, and when you talks about momentum, inertia naturally follows.

Some years ago my mother and I had attended church and after the service there was a healing service going on with charismatics. And my mother and I went to join them to pray with them over these people that they were praying over. And the guy said to us he said well I don't know you so I'm not going to have allow you to join us praying over these other people. And my mom and I just kind of laughed about it and my mom made the comment afterwards saying I always thought that the way that the spirit moved in everyone was like lightning flowing through everyone to the one person

 

[Bill]

Greetings, joining the discussion.

So, @emanuel88 define "free will" please.

Without looking at the dictionary, I'll just throw out something and let me know
if this is what you mean by "free will".

Would you say that "free will" is the ability to make a choice where options are possible
and no option is fixed?

For example, a rock that is dropped from a cliff does not have free-will to fall or not.
The laws of gravity fixes it's trajectory and demands that the rock takes the only path
available, which is to fall.

Or, if I program a computer operating system that works with a keyboard and everytime
I press the "A" on the keyboard A is displayed in the word document, and everytime I press
"B" on the keyboard, B is displayed on the word document. There is not freewill in the software
program, it is determine that there is a set input and a set output.

So are human beings, creation or beings with a certain composition which they lead
to set thoughts and set behaviors and set therefore set consequences? Is that the question.

For example, I think about animals. The behaviors of animals is very much set by their nature
and it is very hard for animals to change from their "programming" or nature.

For example, I"ve never seen a Lion wake up one day and say to itself
"you know what, I don't want to eat Zebras anymore, I want to be a vegetarian"
and I've never seen a Zebra wake up one day and say, "you know what, I want
to eat meat and not grass". They seem to not have that "free will" or that ability to make
a choice to freely choose between options where neither option is fixed."

Whereas humans are been observed doing all kinds of things which is contrary to what
many other humans have done before. It appears that we do have free-will.

However I believe that we often confused our free-will with God already knowing what will happen.

I always us this example.
Imagine watching a football game, the Superbowl from 1995. As you watch this game from 1995, years
ago, does the fact that you know how the game will end, does that mean that the players playing the game
never had freewill? Of course not. They were able to play freely when they played the game, it is just
that now you are watching the game after it has already happened and you know the outcome.

People wrongly look at God's omniscient (all knowing-including the future) and rationalize
that since God already knows who will be saved and won't, that means that we are not free.
I disagree.

I always laugh about the issue about Free Will whenever it comes up because clearly people are not thinking when they say that there is no free will.

If there was no free will, what point would there be with Jesus dying on the cross.

I mean let's think about it even logically. There would be absolutely no reason for Jesus to die on the cross if everything was set in a certain motion

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Some years ago my mother and I had attended church and after the service there was a healing service going on with charismatics. And my mother and I went to join them to pray with them over these people that they were praying over. And the guy said to us he said well I don't know you so I'm not going to have allow you to join us praying over these other people. And my mom and I just kind of laughed about it and my mom made the comment afterwards saying I always thought that the way that the spirit moved in everyone was like lightning flowing through everyone to the one person

Isn't that bad? I mean, ominous? Jesus said he saw Satan descending like a lightning strike.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Isn't that bad? I mean, ominous? Jesus said he saw Satan descending like a lightning strike.

Can you expand upon that?

I would love to hear more. Please and thank you.

God bless.

 

[emanuel88]

Just to make A recap everyone from the first to remembering the last posts that were done but we have to see what hebrew say when using those words of "free" and choice and know the whole area is also tied to the slaves system Judean mosaic law applies people. Did you know their is A law that saw if A slave from another country comes to Israel he is free under the law of moses and musn't be return to his country to be slave ? He can be free forever

Understand our freedom did exist ! And existed in Heaven when Lucifer rebbeled, truly freewill exist in the spectrum of decision but the concept of the past, present, and future makes us think freewill doesn't exist because everything God's see's and foresaws decided everything for us. Nope people just like their are sciences explaining our existence their is other realms of existence of aliens, spirits and time that our thinking does not know and exist God created it becuase he is above it all but paths that exist and ways that exist in those ways explain that freedom exist probablility exist and Lucifer is one that's he was perfect in every sense we do knot know and yet he reblled and proves freewill myth is not myth and Ray I copy something from him. Still were just the tip of the iceberg in freewill and consciousness and existing explaining that what we percieve in our brains and eyes is not how freewil is exist by God and he gives us choice to do good and evil people don't understand it.


Because they want to control the base of it and with words grab their destiny and say like scientist they cannot really choose because their future was chosen for them and everything is planned ? Not true Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.



No, people you just begginign to enter the tip of freewill as we speak we have the verses and in greek mean different things and in hebrew mean different things. But how in the universe rules are different and no we are bound becuase their Is more to God he is not showing we know him as the God of before, today and tomorrow are thier more time measurments in the universe ? Yes, Do angels, aliens, and other beings that exist have different counting than we do ? yes, understand God is beyond destiny and he gives us that to be measure by time like we know it now but there is more ways to count time from angel perspective, alien perspective, and above all from God's perpsective for he is has not limits and he has counting system different from us.


Freewill is it based from God's letting people to choose to love him or not ? He let us choose our destiny can change from that ? Dont' go too far people he onlys wants us to choose either to be freed by him from sin thru Jesus and be baptized simple as that and not to choose to do evil simple people. Does freedom exist outside of our science and counting time and counting destiny and God can make it happen ? Yes he can he can do it all for he is God and only God judges God ! We cannot go beyond that but he can craete it people Don't rely on your own efforts in yoru decison but pray and rely on his and he will unchange your destiny to youd dream of saving your family to be rich man in god's way and be the thing you want he put in your heart to free in freewill in his love he gaves us life to choose and enjoy this magnifecent thing called life and live it with all your might and feelings.


Choose God above it all and put him first he will change your ways and find your dream come reality and really be all the things you can be !

 

[Bill]

Just to make A recap everyone from the first to remembering the last posts that were done but we have to see what hebrew say when using those words of "free" and choice and know the whole area is also tied to the slaves system Judean mosaic law applies people. Did you know their is A law that saw if A slave from another country comes to Israel he is free under the law of moses and musn't be return to his country to be slave ? He can be free forever

Understand our freedom did exist ! And existed in Heaven when Lucifer rebbeled, truly freewill exist in the spectrum of decision but the concept of the past, present, and future makes us think freewill doesn't exist because everything God's see's and foresaws decided everything for us. Nope people just like their are sciences explaining our existence their is other realms of existence of aliens, spirits and time that our thinking does not know and exist God created it becuase he is above it all but paths that exist and ways that exist in those ways explain that freedom exist probablility exist and Lucifer is one that's he was perfect in every sense we do knot know and yet he reblled and proves freewill myth is not myth and Ray I copy something from him. Still were just the tip of the iceberg in freewill and consciousness and existing explaining that what we percieve in our brains and eyes is not how freewil is exist by God and he gives us choice to do good and evil people don't understand it.


Because they want to control the base of it and with words grab their destiny and say like scientist they cannot really choose because their future was chosen for them and everything is planned ? Not true Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.



No, people you just begginign to enter the tip of freewill as we speak we have the verses and in greek mean different things and in hebrew mean different things. But how in the universe rules are different and no we are bound becuase their Is more to God he is not showing we know him as the God of before, today and tomorrow are thier more time measurments in the universe ? Yes, Do angels, aliens, and other beings that exist have different counting than we do ? yes, understand God is beyond destiny and he gives us that to be measure by time like we know it now but there is more ways to count time from angel perspective, alien perspective, and above all from God's perpsective for he is has not limits and he has counting system different from us.


Freewill is it based from God's letting people to choose to love him or not ? He let us choose our destiny can change from that ? Dont' go too far people he onlys wants us to choose either to be freed by him from sin thru Jesus and be baptized simple as that and not to choose to do evil simple people. Does freedom exist outside of our science and counting time and counting destiny and God can make it happen ? Yes he can he can do it all for he is God and only God judges God ! We cannot go beyond that but he can craete it people Don't rely on your own efforts in yoru decison but pray and rely on his and he will unchange your destiny to youd dream of saving your family to be rich man in god's way and be the thing you want he put in your heart to free in freewill in his love he gaves us life to choose and enjoy this magnifecent thing called life and live it with all your might and feelings.


Choose God above it all and put him first he will change your ways and find your dream come reality and really be all the things you can be !

Always Love. It is the most important thing. After all it is what God Is

 

[Bill]

I have to say, i am really impressed with you here in this thread. And i look forward to working with you during all that is to come.

The Peace and Love of Jesus be with you, always.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that
I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life,
so that you and your children may live"
- Deuteronomy 30:19

If we didn't have freewill how could the WORD of God tell us that life and death are set before us
and we should choose life?

To choose means that there is a choice to make, yes?
Choices means that there are options to choose from, yes?

Things that don't have freewill we don't look at and tell it to make a choice.
And if we didn't have freewill, what does God look like, communicating
to creatures with no freewill through his prophets and telling them to choose?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Another point,

So we are asking if humans have freewill.
Let me take a step back.

Does God have freewill?
Yes OR No?


I ask because we are made in His image, we are not clones of God, but made in God's
image, meaning some attributes and qualities of God are inherently given to us.
Other attributes are not. For example God did not give us the attribute of being infallible,
we can fail (and we did in Eden) but God cannot fail, fall, be tempted, do evil, etc.

I believe that God does have freewill and give us that quality that He has.
God also has consciousness and God is moral, and give us those traits as well.

Those who say we don't have freewill either have to say that:
God Himself does not have freewill (therefore can't give what He does not have),
OR,
God has freewill but chose to limit making us in His image to not include that attribute of freewill which He possesses.

Both options don't seem Biblical to me.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Can you expand upon that?

I would love to hear more. Please and thank you.

God bless.

““I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” Luke 10:18

 

[emanuel88]

This is good, literature is done and this A lot of hard work paid off. Thank you all and God.

 

[Twistie]

Another point,

So we are asking if humans have freewill.
Let me take a step back.

Does God have freewill?
Yes OR No?


I ask because we are made in His image, we are not clones of God, but made in God's
image, meaning some attributes and qualities of God are inherently given to us.
Other attributes are not. For example God did not give us the attribute of being infallible,
we can fail (and we did in Eden) but God cannot fail, fall, be tempted, do evil, etc.

I believe that God does have freewill and give us that quality that He has.
God also has consciousness and God is moral, and give us those traits as well.

Those who say we don't have freewill either have to say that:
God Himself does not have freewill (therefore can't give what He does not have),
OR,
God has freewill but chose to limit making us in His image to not include that attribute of freewill which He possesses.

Both options don't seem Biblical to me.

Personally I believe we do because we have choices when sin Crouches at the door YH always gives a way out
It is written I new you before you were in the womb I believe He knew how each one of would walk our walk but loved us so much that we became to be YH don't want a forced Love.
If there was no free will then how did the most beautiful angel turn away from Him ?

Idk I ponder this alot

Twistie

 

[Curtis]

Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.

What do you mean angels don't have the "right" to choose?

My understanding is that they made their choice, whether to follow God or follow Lucifer when he rebelled.

It is just that they are not given a path to repentance. From what we know (they is likely more to the story that we don't know, but..)
they missed up once, and it was a bit mess up and there was no path to repentance.

So what do you mean the "right" to choose?

Are you talking about John 1:12?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

@Curtis

Is this what you are referencing?

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—"

John 1:12

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

““I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” Luke 10:18

I'm asking you to expand on what you said, and you quoted a scripture.
When I say expand, what I mean is in your own words, please share
your interpretation of that scripture and its relevance to the topic and
how it supports your position. When you simply share a quote it
does not tell me what you think about that quote. As we know,
here on TJ, many quote the same verses but have different interpretations.

So I'll try one more beloved, can you please expand on that.

If you are unable to no worries, just let me know.
Love and God Bless.