Do we have freewill ? did we have freewill since the beginning ?

[Curtis]

@Curtis

Is this what you are referencing?

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—"

John 1:12

You are right.....

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Angels do God's commandments hearkening to the voice of his Word.

Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Angels were never given the "right" to not obey God's commandments, But they do have the ability to disobey.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I'm asking you to expand on what you said, and you quoted a scripture.
When I say expand, what I mean is in your own words, please share
your interpretation of that scripture and its relevance to the topic and
how it supports your position. When you simply share a quote it
does not tell me what you think about that quote. As we know,
here on TJ, many quote the same verses but have different interpretations.

So I'll try one more beloved, can you please expand on that.

If you are unable to no worries, just let me know.
Love and God Bless.

Alright, to be honest, I'm not very knowledgeable about this particular part of the scripture, but I'll try at my best. In the context, Jesus sent out 70 disciples who returned with gladness as they had subjugated demons by their preaching of the gospel, that's a parallel with the 70 nations scattering from the Tower of Babel to fill up all the earth in Gen. 10. Jesus, though, told them not to be complacent, because their final reward is in heaven, with their names written in the Book of Life. For now they might have defeated those demonic spirits for a while, but those spirits are still around seeking another opportunity to launch another assault, for Satan is like a lion seeking to devour, and when he attacks his prey so swiftly like a lightning strike. So beware, eyes on the prize, don't just settle, there're greater battles up ahead.

There is this conspiracy theory though, that Barack Obama was this "lightning from heaven", if you convert his name into Hebrew. And if you play his slogan "Yes We Can" backward, it sounds like "thank you Satan." Was he the Antichrist? You decide. I'd say that his presidency was surely the beginning of America's and the entire western civilization's long chronic decline.

 

[Twistie]

Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.

I see it as the the angels also had free will free to choose YH or free to choose their own path n I believe there's no repentance for them for they were in YHs glorious presence when they went astray

 

[emanuel88]

 

[Bill]

I dont need to watch videos to find out if there is free will . The whole arguement for it is stupid .
If everything was predestined, then there would not be any need for Jesus to die on the cross.

 

[Twistie]

It is written flesh gives birth to Flesh Spirit gives birth to Spirit its best to ponder with YH and ask Him for an answer neva eva depend on man

 

[Twistie]

I dont need to watch videos to find out if there is free will . The whole arguement for it is stupid .
If everything was predestined, then there would not be any need for Jesus to die on the cross.

I'm not getting the whole question for its all written peep just gotta seek n ask YH
We all have choices n can freely choose to do good or evil can fee that homeless man or walk by like He don't exist
He knew us before we were formed in the belly of our Mothers He knew the path all would walk n yet He still brought us all into being
He don't want forced Love He wants Free Love
Very simple man complicates it‍

 

[Bill]

I'm not getting the whole question for its all written peep just gotta seek n ask YH
We all have choices n can freely choose to do good or evil can fee that homeless man or walk by like He don't exist
He knew us before we were formed in the belly of our Mothers He knew the path all would walk n yet He still brought us all into being
He don't want forced Love He wants Free Love
Very simple man complicates it‍

Maybe you misunderstand me we have free will it is silly to think that we have predestination

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I'm going to repeat myself and add some more.

We are asking if humans have free-will.

What if we ask, does "does God have free-will"?

Now, listen to the words of the devil, he tells Adam and Eve, (paraphrasing)

"“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


The "opening of their eyes", was that also an opening of their will to be FREE and independent of God?

Was God hiding from Adam and Eve some attribute that only God had (free-will)?

Were they without free-will before they ate from the tree? And the devil was trying to tell them

that they were missing out?


But if they didn't have freewill before, how could they have used their will to disobey God if they

were never free to choose in the first place??? If their disobedience was not what God desired, they had

to be free to disobey the commandment that God told them not to do, unless God created a rule and then

programs them (without freedom) to break that rule (which doesn't make sense to me).

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I'm going to repeat myself and add some more.

We are asking if humans have free-will.

What if we ask, does "does God have free-will"?

Now, listen to the words of the devil, he tells Adam and Eve, (paraphrasing)

"“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


The "opening of their eyes", was that also an opening of their will to be FREE and independent of God?

Was God hiding from Adam and Eve some attribute that only God had (free-will)?

Were they without free-will before they ate from the tree? And the devil was trying to tell them

that they were missing out?


But if they didn't have freewill before, how could they have used their will to disobey God if they

were never free to choose in the first place??? If their disobedience was not what God desired, they had

to be free to disobey the commandment that God told them not to do, unless God created a rule and then

programs them (without freedom) to break that rule (which doesn't make sense to me).

It's like saying an engineer makes robotic self-driving cars, and set a speed limits, but programs the cars to go faster than
the speed limit, and then destroys the cars after going faster than the speed limit they set. Doesn't make much sense to me.

In my mind, limits and boundaries all point to freedom. You can't put a limit or rule or expectation on someone if there isn't a
freedom that they have for them to do otherwise. For example, do you know why on a train track that goes straight for 100 miles
there is no sign that will say, don't turn left. You know why? Because the train does not have the freedom to freely choose
to turn left, the train is on the tracks and is destined to take that path. So putting signs on the tracks saying don't turn left or don't
turn right , for the train, makes no sense because if that ability to turn off the tracks is not present then no limits are needed (it won't happen).

But in cars, where the drivers can freely turn left and right and all kinds of movements, we put signs up. Boundaries. Because we know
that the driver in the car is free to choose where they will go, therefore we are setting limits because they do have freedom.

So the whole point that God sets limits for us, points to the fact that we do have freedom.

 

[Twistie]

Maybe you misunderstand me we have free will it is silly to think that we have predestination

I actually wast sure if you for it or against it lol its totally me what many don't know is that I can read as all can see cause I answer but I have a very hard time comprehending what I read n nor am I able to retain what I learn I had major head trauma in my walk of Life
I say that not for pity but it's just a partial testament of my Walk n how it is YH that upholds me

Twistie

 

[emanuel88]

The holy spirit works and exist accordance to God's will and for A purpose as we see freewill existed people. God gave it to us even to the devil ahd freewill. How he got it and still why of he's rebbelion is still A mystery.
But we know that the heart has A part to play with freewill from the lord. Heart is where is the mind is and how the mind does things we exist thanks to God's will to put conscience and know of our existence. We have existence since we can talk and obey question is our conscience of Adam is the smae us our modern humans think ? Or Like A recent baby thinks when he coms to the world. What is the basisi of conscience ?
Our freedom is from our conscience and tell us what we are.

 

[Bill]

Abraham said to the Lord, " are you really going to destroy the just man with the center? Perhaps there are 50 just men in the town will you really overwhelm them will you not spare the place for the 50 just men in it?

The Lord replied if at side of my fine 50 just men in the town I will spare the whole place because of them.

Abraham replied," I am bold indeed to speak like this to my Lord I who am Dustin ashes but perhaps the 50 just men like five will you destroy the whole city for five?"

No he replied I will not destroy it for 45 just men there.

Abraham said," I trust my Lord will not be angry but give me leave to speak perhaps there will only be 30 there? "

I will not do it he replied if I find 30 there

Etc.

Free will it means that we have choices, and it means that we can confront God respectfully. God also has free will, he chooses, but he limits himself to his own Covenant.

 

[emanuel88]

Just posted this on reddit a bunch of people have taken interest in all of this !

 

[joestue]

If I had a right not to obey a person's commands...

Then I wouldn't be punished for disobeying them.

 

[emanuel88]

That person is Jesus or youself ?

 

[joestue]

That person is Jesus or youself ?

It doesn't matter who it is that you have a right to disobey...

This is basic logic and definitions of words.

Whoever it is upstream in this thread making a claim that humans have a right to disobey God and angels don't have a right but both humans and angels can disobey...

The only way to make this work.. would be today that "the wages of sin is death" is not a punishment. Humans would then have a right to choose death.

If the non born again folks just cease to exist after death (no further judgement nor punishment beyond what they experienced in this life)

Then humans could have a right to sin.

 

[joestue]

Curtis said:

Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.
Twistie replies:

I see it as the the angels also had free will free to choose YH or free to choose their own path n I believe there's no repentance for them for they were in YHs glorious presence when they went astray

 

[PloughBoy]

Curtis said:

Angels have the ability to choose, but they were not given the right to choose. This is why there is no salvation for angels.
Humans have the ability to choose and were given the right to choose.
Twistie replies:

I see it as the the angels also had free will free to choose YH or free to choose their own path n I believe there's no repentance for them for they were in YHs glorious presence when they went astray

So are you saying JESUS did not know what they would do before he created them , neither His FATHER knew their destination before his Son created them according to The FATHERS command and design and purpose. And are not things going as they have been Decreed and Ordain BY "THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE GOD ALMIGHTY" and on time and have not skip a beat? or is GOD having problems with anybody, that things are not happening according to His decree?

Now think, before you answer. slow , like pouring "Molasses", being pour out of a jar, on a cool Sunday morning, in October when the trees start turning in "Autumn colors" as you search the skies. now pause right there and think, about GOD and HIS wisdom and His KNOWLEDGE and WHO He IS . And How he is Beyond POWER, HE hands Out Power, like CANDY in HIS POCKET!

 

[joestue]

If you paid attention, in that post I am quoting two other people, those are not my words, which if you paid attention to.. I am not in agreement with this idea that humans nor anyone ever had a right to disobey God.