Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture

[Grace]

We are going through tribulations now...just as someone posted about out christians over seas. But we will be spared the wrath of God!

We are not appointed to the wrath of God...this is where God is punishing those that do not believe him.

 

[ushalk]

We are going through tribulations now...just as someone posted about out christians over seas. But we will be spared the wrath of God!

We are not appointed to the wrath of God...this is where God is punishing those that do not believe him.

amen, brother. the lord has shown you this because it is the truth. we will be saved from gods wrath but that is all there in in this promise. let us look at noah.

noah was persecuted by everyone arond for his faith in god. the bible does not state how bad it was on him and his family. but the point is that satan is going to try to devour us any way he can. but what he does not know is death and persecution only brings forth stronger faith and also opens the door for faith in non believers. when mankind sees these things happen to people that are innocent and the people going through it sticking to their faith it builds up the truth and a point of truth in the people.

praise god that he loves us and there is nothing that man can do to pull us out of his hand.

 

[Grace]

amen, brother. the lord has shown you this because it is the truth. we will be saved from gods wrath but that is all there in in this promise. let us look at noah.

noah was persecuted by everyone arond for his faith in god. the bible does not state how bad it was on him and his family. but the point is that satan is going to try to devour us any way he can. but what he does not know is death and persecution only brings forth stronger faith and also opens the door for faith in non believers. when mankind sees these things happen to people that are innocent and the people going through it sticking to their faith it builds up the truth and a point of truth in the people.

praise god that he loves us and there is nothing that man can do to pull us out of his hand.

Since the Old Testament is a picture of the New Testament...

What is this a picture of Gen. 5:24..." And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

This happen before the wrath..the flood.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:37).
In the days of Noah the people of Earth could be separated into three groups. There were the unbelievers who perished in the Flood, the family of Noah who were preserved through the Flood, and Enoch who was taken from Earth before the Flood. (Enoch was translated in Genesis 5. That means that God took him live into Heaven. The Flood came in Genesis 6.)
In The Time Of The 2nd Coming the people of Earth can also be separated into three groups The unbelieving world that will perish in the End Times judgments, Israel who will be preserved through the judgments, and The Church who will be taken from Earth before the judgments.
There are some interesting similarities between Enoch and the Church. His name means "teaching," one of the primary roles of the Church. Some traditions hold that Enoch was born on the 6th day of Sivan and was translated on his birthday. The 6th of Sivan is the day in the Hebrew Calendar on which the Feast of Pentecost is celebrated. It's the day the Church was born. Will we be raptured on our birthday as well? Time will tell. In any case, Enoch makes a good model of the Church. But you say, "Enoch was only one body." So is the Church.

 

[greatlybeloved]

What we need to understand is that we can't determine prophetical truths based on some type (we don't even know if Enoch is a type of Church to begin with). And we cannot take ALL events of type's life and apply.

For example, Jonah was a type of Christ and the Lord Himself testifies it. But to what extent is Jonah type, only to the extent it was revealed, he was type of Christ only in that he was in the fishes belly for three days and three nights, like Christ being in the heart of earth for three days and three nights. But if you compare rest of the details of Christ and Jonah, they're totally opposite. Jonah was disobedient and Christ was obedient to the Father. Jonah went to preach JUDGEMENT upon Nineveh and the Lord preached SALVATION.

So my point is we cannot make doctrines based on some event/person thinking it/he/she is a type of rapture/second coming when the Scripture say no such a thing. All this teaching based on Noah, Enoch, etc., is private interpretation by so called 'scholars' and our evangelicals embraced it because of the degrees and PHDs possessed by these scholars.

We need make the Scriptures as our LONE authority and once you do that, you'll see many things taught traditionally by these scholars are baseless Scripturally.

 

[cman77]

i don't know what is being discussed, but did anyone check the scripture for these "evidences" because most of them are taken completly out of context. and the ones that aren't could just as easily apply to a post tribulation rapture

 

[letusgo27]

amen Caman remember that noah was a good man who followed GOd as well and he went through the flood. daniel went through the loins den. Shad, mesh, aben went through the fiery furness. the hebrews went through the 10 plagues.

the apostle said ït is through great tribulation that we must enter the kingdom of heaven".

 

[Grace]

amen Caman remember that noah was a good man who followed GOd as well and he went through the flood. daniel went through the loins den. Shad, mesh, aben went through the fiery furness. the hebrews went through the 10 plagues.

the apostle said ït is through great tribulation that we must enter the kingdom of heaven".

Daniel did not go through the fiery furnace...where was he?

 

[Grace]

According to the Bible, Jesus will one day come down out of heaven and then He will "snatch up" all Christians (living and dead) off of the earth to meet Him in the clouds. This "snatching up" of Christians is often referred to as "the Rapture of the Church." Here are two of the main passages which describe the Rapture:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)

"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep [die], but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality." (1 Corinthians 15:50-53)​

These passages tell us that Jesus will come down from heaven (with a loud command and the trumpet call of God), and then everyone who had died in Christ will be physically resurrected from the dead and will rise to meet the Lord in the air, and then all living Christians will rise to meet the Lord in the air. In "the twinkling of an eye" our mortal bodies will be transformed into immortal bodies, and we will be with the Lord forever.

The Greek word harpazo means "catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary, and it is translated as "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up [harpazo] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)​

In the Latin Vulgate Bible, the Greek word harpazo is written as rapiemur. If you search the Internet for rapiemur, you'll find that the English word "Rapture" comes from the same Latin root word that rapiemur comes from.

Some people don't believe in the Rapture because they say that the word "Rapture" does not appear anywhere in Scripture. However, the words "Trinity" and "Second Coming" (for example) never appear in the Bible either, yet all of these concepts are taught quite clearly in Scripture even if those specific terms are not used. Actually, the word "Rapture" does appear in the Bible, just not in any English translation. Again, the Latin word for "Rapture" is in the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Grace,

The issue at hand is not whether or not rapture is supported by the Scripture. Ofcourse it is crystal clear. But the main question is whether the rapture occurs before tribulation (pre-trib) or after (post-trib)? The passages you gave, they neither support pre-trib not post-trib.

Is seems you believe in pre-trib rapture. Enoch being taken by God doesn't make Enoch a type of Church. You need to prove with the Scripture. Otherwise it becomes a private interpretation.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


If you examine the time frame before the flood (Gen. 6:2-7), there is no mention of wars, rumors of wars, or earthquakes, yet those are the signs that people generally associate with the endimes. But the only thing we see in scripture prior to the flood is the unnatural union between the angels that left their proper domain with human women.

That leads me to believe that in order for things to be "as in the days of Noah," these unions between angels and humans must happen again. But before the destruction begins, the righteous must be removed from the planet.

Enoch, a type of church, was removed from the earth prior to the destruction of the earth by the flood.

And somebody needs to be kept safe through the tribulation.

Noah and his family, a type of Israel, were kept safe through the flood.

That would be the remnant of Jews.


Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

When Is Your Birthday?
But there's more. Another tradition holds that Enoch, one of the patriarchs from Genesis 5, was born on the day later to be known as Pentecost. Enoch's name means "teaching" a primary function of the Church and so many scholars see him as a "type" of the church as well. Genesis 5:21-23 indicates that Enoch was very close to God and was actually taken live (raptured) into Heaven some time before the Great Flood.



Pre-Trib scholars see this event as hinting of a yet future disappearance of the Church just before the Great Tribulation, especially since the Lord said that the day of His coming would be like the days of Noah. In the Days of Noah the unbelieving world was destroyed in the judgment, a believing remnant was preserved through the judgment and Enoch disappeared before the judgment. If these conditions repeat themselves as the Lord indicated, then preceding the 2nd Coming, the unbelieving world will again be destroyed in the judgment, a believing remnant of Israel will be preserved through the judgment, and the church will disappear sometime before the judgment.

These same traditions also hold that Enoch disappeared from Earth on his birthday. So here's a model in Genesis of a man identified with the church being born and raptured on the day that would become Pentecost, the day the church was also born. And that's why of all the Jewish feasts, Pentecost is the most likely Rapture Day All this of course is merely an accumulation of circumstantial evidence. The Rapture is a secret event, and as such it's exact timing is known only to God. And if, as I believe, it will happen as soon as the full number has come in, then it would be impossible for anyone on Earth to know the day or the hour in advance.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

The Harpazoby Chuck Missler


Concluding our brief series of articles on our "Blessed Hope," there would seem to be seven harpázôs ("raptures") in the Bible: Enoch, Elijah,Philip, Paul,John and Jesus, and, of course, the Body of Christ, the Church. (In fact, the very Greek term, harpozô, is employed in four of these references.)
Since Paul highlights that the mystery of the Church was his privilege to reveal in the New Testament, it is fashionable to assume that it would be futile to expect any references to the Rapture of the Church in the Old Testament. However, here are some provocative passages for your personal consideration:

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. -Isaiah 26:19-21
Who are to enter which chambers? How long are they to be hidden? (Compare this with John 14:1-3 and come to your own conclusions.)
And there are others:
Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger. - Zephaniah 2:3
For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. -Psalm 27:5
But to me, the most provocative are the consistent patterns - or "types," metaphors, and similes - in the Old Testament:
Pattern is Prologue
It is interesting to notice the patterns that seem to be suggested in the Biblical text. One of the greatest judgments on the Planet Earth was, of course, the flood during the days of Noah. It is obvious that there were three groups of people facing that judgment:
1) Those that perished in the Flood;
2) Those who were preserved through the Flood, by means of the ark; and
3) Those who were removed prior to the Flood, namely, Enoch. (It can be argued that he was only one person, but so is the Church! It was G. H. Pember who first suggested that Revelation 12:5 might be a reference to the Church.)
Enoch is, for many reasons, one of the most intriguing characters in the Old Testament. There are also several provocative Jewish traditions regarding Enoch. He is regarded as having been born on the day the Jews observe Hag Shavout, the Feast of Weeks, or Pentecost. What is also interesting is that, by tradition, he is also believed to have been "translated" (or "raptured") on his birthday. Since the Church was "born" on this day, one wonders if we, too, will be "raptured" on its birthday!
(As some pre-tribbers love to point out, Enoch wasn't "mid-flood" or "post-flood," he was "pre-flood.")
We all have enjoyed the famous confrontation between Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel's three friends in the fiery furnace in Daniel 3. Many prophecy buffs view Nebuchadnezzar and the forced worship of his image as a "type" of the Antichrist, and the three Jewish young men as a foreshadowing of the 144,000 miraculously preserved through the "furnace" of the tribulation. That leaves a provocative question: Where was Daniel himself? Who might he represent as a type?
Some prophecy buffs see the use of a threshing floor as an idiom alluding to the tribulation. The marvelous romance of Ruth, who becomes the Gentile bride of Boaz, her Kinsman-Redeemer, is seen as an anticipatory type of the Church and her Redeemer. In the critical threshing floor scene in chapter 3, where is Ruth? At the feet of her Redeemer. Interesting.
In Genesis 22, Abraham left the donkey and the two young men at the foot of the hill as he and Isaac went up to the top of Moriah for the famous offering of his son. After the episode concludes with the substitution of the ram, it lists those that then returned to Beersheba:
So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Genesis 22:19
Where's Isaac? Obviously, Isaac also returned with Abraham and the two young men. But we are fascinated that the Holy Spirit appears to have edited the person of Isaac out of the record from the time he was offered until he is united with his bride two chapters later! We believe this was deliberate to have the narrative fully conform to the type.
One, of course, should not build doctrine from "types," metaphors, or similitudes. But we feel they can be instructive and illuminating.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. -Romans 15:4
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. - Hosea 12:10
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -2 Timothy 2:15
The legendary John Walvoord used to joke that when he got to heaven, one of the first things he planned to do was to conduct a course on "Remedial Eschatology." But he admitted that he "wouldn't enjoy it as much because he would have lost his sin nature by then!"
He recently was called home to be with the Lord he served so faithfully for so many years. I wonder how he and Walter Martin are getting along…

 

[Grace]

ok..I will begin to show you in scriptures why I believe in the pre-trib rapture.

But first we need to be clear on a few definitions..

First..the second coming

The Bible says that Jesus will one day physically return to the earth and set up a new government, and then He will reign on earth for one thousand years, as in this example:

"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4)
​

Jesus' future return to the earth is often referred to as "the Second Coming of Christ."


Here are the basic differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming, which I will be explaining later in detail:

• At the Rapture, Jesus will only come down as far as the clouds (but not all the way down to the earth), and then He will "snatch up" all Christians (living or dead). Our mortal bodies will be transformed into immortal bodies, and then Jesus will take us up into heaven where He will judge us according to our deeds. All saved mortals on the earth (i.e. all Christians) will be "taken up" in the Rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds, and all unsaved mortals on the earth will remain on the earth.
  
• At the Second Coming, Jesus will return all the way down to the earth, and everyone who had been raptured will return to the earth with Him. No-one will be transformed from mortality to immortality at the Second Coming, and no-one will go up into heaven at the Second Coming. All unsaved mortals on the earth will be "taken" in judgment by being killed, and all saved mortals on the earth will remain on the earth.

Notice that the events which will take place at the Rapture are the opposite of the events which will take place at the Second Coming. The Rapture and the Second Coming will occur at two different times.

 

[Stephen1]

Here is what one needs to know regarding the Lord's "harpazo" action for the believer and when this event will take place:

There are many ideas used to support a pre-tribulation call that are not directly supportive like the experiences of Enoch and Elijah [neither of these were immortalized and are still sleeping .... Corinthians 21-23]

Noah and his family escaped the judgment of the flood to repopulate the earth, but this event was not like the Lord's coming "harpazo" action ..... Noah was not immortalized and is still sleeping [Noah's keeping is more like those believers who will survive the coming judgment of the tribulation period physically and will repopulate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom as mortals [Matthew 24:29-31: Matthew 25:31-46] .... these gatherings are not resurrections to immortality

Another idea is that the "falling away" [departure] from the truth about the Lord noted in 2Thessalonians 2:3 is the Lord's "harpazo" action .... not true .... this is the behavior of those who have refused to believe the truth ..... and because of this, the Lord will send strong delusion against them .... He will give them the devil

The same goes for the idea that the Lord's removal of restraint [Holy Spirit] indicates the departure of the church as the restrainer .... not true ..... His Holy Spirit will operate during the entire tribulation period, but will just not prevent satan from operating when he is cast to the earth with his fallen angelics

There are many pre-tribulational thinkers who have selected scriptures, which do not apply, and want to make them supportive of a pre-tribulational "rapture" ..... this should not be done because these applications are easily refuted by those who teach against the Lord's early call for the church

Here are the scriptures that prove the Lord's keeping of the believer living at the time from His coming judgment of the tribulation period which will last for 2,550 days:

The gathering in 2Thessalonians 2:1
This gathering is the "rapture" and will come before the day of the Lord begins .... these two events are not the same .... the Thessalonians were troubled because they thought they had missed the gathering event as some were falsely teaching that the day of the Lord had already begun ..... Paul corrects this false teaching by explaining the the day of the Lord had not already begun and why

The separation explained in Matthew 25:1-13
This action will come with no warning or signs and it is the Lord's "harpazo" to immortalize the believer, both those asleep and those living at the time just before His coming judgment which is still pending at this time ..... the church is filled with those who profess to be Christians and are not .... these will not be immortalized and will go into the period of His wrath of the coming tribulation

Revelation 3:10 and 3:16 is the same separation described in Matthew 25:1-13
Those ready are the true believers .... those who profess only are not

Revelation 18:4 is the same event described in 1Thessalonians 4:16
The great city part of MBG will be destroyed just at the beginning of the coming tribulation period ..... all believers living just before will be immortalized before this event

Here are the Revelation scriptures that prove the pre-tribulation "rapture" by the existence of the immortalized church dwelling in heaven .... and not on the earth .... with the Lord just before and during His coming judgment period:

Revelation 4:5; 5:5-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-14; 20:4 [those on thrones .... the others are those who become believers and martyred during the tribulation period]

There are massive movements going on today proclaiming the false ideas of both preterism and post-tribulational thinking .... both are in serious error regarding the Lord's "harpazo" action for the believer

The broad groupings of these heresies are being broadcast by the preterist and the post-tribulational rants of the teachers of the MSOG latter rain theologies, the WWCG, the RCC, SDA, Serpent Seed, and most liberal protestant denominations

Do not be drawn by any of these movements who are carrying the false teaching that the Lord's "harpazo" action has already taken place, is not a biblical truth, and or will not occur before He brings judgment against an unbelieving world

Satan is behind this distortion because he hates the idea of human immortality and he has infested the professing church with all sorts of various deceptions to lead away from the truth about the issue

The first trumpet sounding and voice of the Lord communicating to the chruch is found in Revelation 1:10 [His evaluation of the condition of church ..... then and now]

The second and last trumpet sounding for the church [the Lord speaking again] is found in 1Corinthians 15:52; 1Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 18:4]

If you are one who is questioning and or refuting this truth regarding a pre-tribulation 'harpazo", you need to check your position ..... here is why

This may indicate that you have been mislead by false teachers who profess to be Christians and this misleading can contain other deceptions that may be affecting your own salvation without you being aware of it

Those who have been mislead and are living at the time of the beginning of the day of the Lord [His coming wrath of the tribulation] will enter the period .... a time of exceptional and unprecedented vexation, confusion, and destruction upon the earth .... satan will also be present when he is allowed to operate upon the earth unchecked and unrestrained

Many [possibly billions of humans] will be killed and lost forever because they will not repent and turn to the Lord during the period .... a few will turn, but these will be martyred for their faith

What will you do if you miss the Lord's pre-tribulation call?

More details on this subject can be found at my Internet site listed on my profile

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

The Bible doesnt say it will be like the days of jonah it says it will be like the days of noah in more then one verse so scripture confirms scripture and when one looks at noahs day enoch was taken out before the flood and noah was saved thru it! a perfect picture of the church and jews!. the only way to get this wrong would to not rightly devide on subjects like the diffrence in the church and jews, the best way to understand the future is to know the past because it says it will be as it was in noahs days. post tribers and mid would have a hard time useing these things to support there views because nothing in there views would match up! (unless as said they dont discern the diffrences in israel and the church). theres no private interpretation in how it went in noahs days and none in the comparing it with the end.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Here are the basic differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming, which I will be explaining later in detail:
At the Rapture, Jesus will only come down as far as the clouds (but not all the way down to the earth), and then He will "snatch up" all Christians (living or dead). Our mortal bodies will be transformed into immortal bodies, and then Jesus will take us up into heaven where He will judge us according to our deeds. All saved mortals on the earth (i.e. all Christians) will be "taken up" in the Rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds, and all unsaved mortals on the earth will remain on the earth.
At the Second Coming, Jesus will return all the way down to the earth, and everyone who had been raptured will return to the earth with Him. No-one will be transformed from mortality to immortality at the Second Coming, and no-one will go up into heaven at the Second Coming. All unsaved mortals on the earth will be "taken" in judgment by being killed, and all saved mortals on the earth will remain on the earth.
Notice that the events which will take place at the Rapture are the opposite of the events which will take place at the Second Coming. The Rapture and the Second Coming will occur at two different times.

Yes, the term "rapture" or being caught UP means we will MEET the Lord UP in the air. Bible is clear about that, "... we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). So I'm not denying that we will MEET the Lord in the air. But your statement, "Jesus will only come down as far as the clouds" has no Scriptural base. We will MEET the Lord in the air (in the clouds), yes it is true. But the Lord will ONLY come till the mid air and return back from there (or stay in the clouds)? It is baseless statement. Especially considering Matthew 24:29-31. The Lord will come in the clouds and WILL GATHER the elect while He's still up in the clouds. However, I'm not saying both events (1Thes 4:16-17 and Matthew 24:29-31) are same, nor can I say both are different. I just don't know at-least for now. If both the passages are same, here is the possibility:

- The Lord descends TO THE EARTH
- While on the way (while still in the air), He snatches the saved ones (this fits 1 Thes 4:16-17 passage AND Matthew 24:29 passage) which we call Rapture.
- And the Lord continues to descend and lands on earth on the mount of Olives (which we call second coming).
- This also fits Colossians 3:4 passage that "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear WITH HIM in glory". i.e., when Christ appears to the world at His second coming, WE SHALL APPEAR WITH HIM (because we would have been caught up while He was still up in the air, and we'll descend WITH HIM down to earth).

If the above interpretation is true, we will go through tribulation because this happens AFTER tribulation according to Matthew 24.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Stephen,

There are many pre-tribulational thinkers who have selected scriptures, which do not apply, and want to make them supportive of a pre-tribulational "rapture" ..... this should not be done because these applications are easily refuted by those who teach against the Lord's early call for the church

Yes, you're right in that the pre-tribbers pick weak arguments and leave the stronger ones to support their theory. However even the so called "stronger arguments" can be refuted with a bit of careful study. Let me address your points (that you made in support of pre-tribulation):

The gathering in 2Thessalonians 2:1
This gathering is the "rapture" and will come before the day of the Lord begins .... these two events are not the same .... the Thessalonians were troubled because they thought they had missed the gathering event as some were falsely teaching that the day of the Lord had already begun ..... Paul corrects this false teaching by explaining the the day of the Lord had not already begun and why

Even better verse could be 1Thessalonians 5:1-5 "... ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief...". So you're right that we shall NOT go through the "day of the Lord". But the pre-tribbers wrongly assumed that the "day of the Lord" means tribulation, it is not! Let me give you a couple of Scriptures first before give you the sequence of events.

Matthew 24:29-30 "¶ Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Joel 2:30-31 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

From the above verses here is the sequence of events
1. Tribulation
2. Signs in sun, moon and stars
3. The day of the Lord begins

So from the passages in Thessalonians, what is guaranteed is that we (the believers) shall not go through the day of the Lord, but there are no guarantees as to whether or not we'll go through tribulation. This is even if we assume if the dispensational teaching is true. If dispensational teaching is wrong (i.e., if there is no difference between Israel and the body of Christ - Church), then we all will go through tribulation according to Matthew 24.

More next...

 

[greatlybeloved]

And for those who must be wondering what is this "day of the Lord" if it is not tribulation, let me explain:

1. It is the WRATH OF GOD poured on ungodly.
2. It starts with a SUPERNATURAL event of sun/moon getting dark and the stars literally falling down.
3. It is not one single day but rather an extended period of time.
4. The judgements poured during the day of the Lord are supernatural in nature. i.e., they are not like the things we see today (like wars, earth quakes, etc.,), rather it is like water becoming BLOOD, etc., The whole world will MELT with fear because of its supernatural nature.
5. It starts AFTER tribulation like I mentioned and particularly after signs in sun/moon/stars.
6. i.e., it starts AT SIXTH SEAL of Revelation.

If anyone disagrees with this, let me know, I will give Scriptural proofs.

 

[Stephen1]

GB,

Thanks for your reply

The controversy over the Lord's "harpazo" action for the believer is the number one issue today with the professing church

I will not post further details at this time and if you want more in depth and related scriptural understanding about my position I would suggest that you visit my website listed with my profile

I believe that post-tribulational thinking and preterism are both in error for many reasons on this issue

I also think that the fence sitters are taking a risk and that the Lord may very well consider these positions to be unacceptable and against His intents .... there also may be other underlying difficulties for those who are engaged ... I know of many cases on a personal basis where the individual involved has been deceived even about their own salvation

There is a reason for this significant controversy and I believe it is a reflection that goes much deeper than just when and or if the Lord is going to execute this action to immortalize the believer .... I would suggest that you take it very seriously

Regarding the "day of the Lord" I would suggest that you use a good Bible search engine on the definition and other related descriptions of the same period to discover just what will be involved ... many things are going to take place during the 2,550 days of the coming tribulation period

The coming day of the Lord will include both His wrath of the tribulation period for 2,550 days and then His millennial kingdom on the earth for 1,000 years .... and beyond

The day of human self rule is going to be eliminated by the Lord's coming judgment of the tribulation period [this will take 2,550 days to complete] .... then He will rule the earth personally from Jerusalem

There are distinct differences between the event described in Revelation 6:12-17 and the event recorded in Matthew 24:29-31 .... these two events will be separated by 2,550 days and the careful student of scripture can discover this

I also might add that Matthew 24 is all about the believing remnant part of national ethnic Israel during the coming tribulation period .... not the church .... there is no resurrection to immortality recorded in this passage of scripture, but only the gathering of those who survive the period as mortals and who will enter and populate the Lord's mortal millennial kingdom on the earth

The church is described in Matthew 25:1-13, in the gospels, and again in Revelation 1,2, and 3 ..... then, after that, the immortal church [of both Jew and Gentile without regard for national identification] is seen in heaven just before and during the tribulation period

This same period is when a remnant of national Israel will turn and believe in their Messiah and King Jesus Christ .... very few Gentiles will get through the tribulation period and will be killed and lost forever

Stephen