Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture

[greatlybeloved]

I believe that post-tribulational thinking and preterism are both in error for many reasons on this issue

I also think that the fence sitters are taking a risk and that the Lord may very well consider these positions to be unacceptable and against His intents .... there also may be other underlying difficulties for those who are engaged ... I know of many cases on a personal basis where the individual involved has been deceived even about their own salvation

Stephen,

With all due respect, you have not yet proved anything here. You have neither proved pre-trib theory is correct nor did you prove post-trib is wrong. So you cannot say someone is wrong until you prove your position to be correct or the other positions are wrong.

And as for your comments on "fence sitters", I think it be better to KNOW fully before believing something. I see flaws in BOTH (pre-trib and post-trib) theories at the moment. I'd be rather on the fence TILL the Spirit of God helps me understand the whole picture, because it is about MY HOPE. It is the most important thing in my spiritual life to know about. So I cannot just believe some stories cooked by some so called scholars.

The prophecies sometimes are confusing, for example there were prophecies about the coming of Messiah in OT. There are certain verses that mention some event in His first coming and the verse continues with another event after His second coming (in millennial kingdom). Jews did not think even in their wildest dreams that there would be TWO comings, even the Godly people who studied the Scriptures rigorously could not understand until the Lord explained that He came to suffer.

I gave the above example to tell you that prophecies cannot be (and should not be) taken so lightly and cannot just believe theories by every tom **** and harry. It has to be inline with the Scriptural teaching. Until I reconcile any theory with the Scriptures (or until I myself come up with proper understanding of prophecy fully), I'll rather sit gladly on the fence (but I'll continue to dig the Scripture).

I'll answer to your rest of the post in my next post. Please bear with me.

Thanks.

 

[Stephen1]

GB,

I see no flaws in the Lord's Word regarding His pre-tribulation action to immortalize today's church .... I do see many incongruities contained in the other ideas

Hope you will continue to study and arrive at the correct rendering

I do stay away from debating interpretive issues on public forums because I believe that it serves very little purpose and it can create negative aspects regarding Christianity for on lookers

I will answer reasonable questions if I feel that it would benefit the readers, but if you want to know my position you should visit my website .... I do not intend to change my understanding on this particular issue

Stephen

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

Summary of Problems
with Posttribulationism
by Ron Rhodes
The Problem of Imminency
The problem for posttribulationists is that all the Rapture passages seem to indicate an imminent Rapture, while the Second Coming is preceded by specific events. The difficulty is in reconciling these two distinct events into one single event. Posttribs try to solve this problem by redefining imminence as merely indicating that Christ will return soon, and argue against the idea that the Rapture could occur at any moment.

It should be noted that in several instances, Paul exhorted believers on the basis of the imminency of the Lord's return without even the slightest warning of an impending great tribulation (cf. 1 Cor. 15:51-58). Every passage that clearly refers to the Rapture has this unusual feature of exhortation which is based on the imminency of the rapture and the absence of any warning of an intervening great tribulation.

The Problem of the Comforting Hope
The problem here is in harmonizing the comforting hope of 1 Thessalonians 4 with a literal great tribulation. The hope of the Rapture was extended to the Thessalonian Christians as a comfort. Paul did not warn them of a coming great tribulation.

Obviously, the Thessalonians would not have experienced much 'comfort' or 'hope' if they had to go through the great tribulation before being translated. Posttribulationists generally try to get around this by minimizing the sufferings of the saints, and somehow insulating them from the judgments of the great tribulation.

The Problem of the Restrainer
Posttribs have not adequately dealt with the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2. They usually argue from silence by stating that Paul surely would have asserted pretribulationism if it were an established truth. Their logic seems to be: 'Since Paul didn't come right out and say that there would be a pretribulational Rapture, posttribulationism (by the process of elimination) must be correct.' However, if the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, as pretribs believe, then Paul in fact did argue for a pretrib Rapture.

The Problem of the Wheat and the Tares
Posttribulationists support their view by citing Matthew 13:30, where the tares are taken up first before the wheat. However, this contradicts the posttrib sequence of events. In their view, the wicked are not dealt with finally before the rapture. Subsequently, Matthew 13:30 does not support posttribulationism.

The Problem of Intervening Events on Earth
The tribulation is a period of preparation for the Millennium. Since all believers are translated at the Rapture, this period of time is necessary to make possible a new generation of believers who will populate the Millennium in their mortal bodies.

The Problem of the Judgment of the Nations
The unbelievers (goats) are cast into everlasting fire by means of physical death whereas believers (sheep) enter the kingdom prepared for them - the Millennial Kingdom. The judgment of the nations is an individual judgment. It results in the purging of unbelievers out from among believers and leaves believers untouched. (Note that no one is translated or resurrected).

If there had been a posttribulational Rapture, then believers would already be separated from unbelievers. This judgment would then be unnecessary.

The Problem of the "First Resurrection"
Posttribulationists call attention to the expression "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4-6 in support of their argument. They ask how a posttribulational resurrection could be 'first' if a Rapture had actually taken place before the tribulation? The answer is that the resurrection mentioned in Rev. 20:4-6 actually occurs after the second coming of Christ and therefore contradicts the idea that the Rapture (in the posttribulational view) is a part of the second coming of Christ from heaven to earth. Even a posttribulationist would have to recognize that in his order of events, the resurrection of Rev. 20:4-6 is not 'first.'

The Problem of Terminology
Similar terminology is used for the Rapture and the Second Coming. Posttribs thus conclude that these two events must be one. They use nontechnical terms like coming, appearing, and revelation in a technical way.

The answer to this is simply that the context must always be taken unto consideration in determining how these words are to be interpreted. It is faulty logic to assume that a word must always be used in exactly the same way whenever it is used.

The Problem of the Book of Revelation
Posttribulationists have no uniform interpretation of this book. Most posttribs spiritualize the great judgments in Revelation 6-19. The widely conflicting and contradictory interpretations that Posttribs hold to in regard to this book is ample testimony to their inadequate hermeneutics.

The Problem of Transition from the Tribulation to the Millennium
This problem has been touched on earlier. The basic problem is, How can saints go into the Millennium in their natural bodies if, in fact, they were raptured while Christ was coming from heaven to earth? Their bodies would have already been glorified.

Additional Problems which are the Result of an Incorrect and Inconsistent Hermeneutic:
Disagreement on the Millennium
Posttribs do not agree as to whether premillennialism, postmillennialism, or amillennialism is the correct view. Thus posttribulationism does not lend itself to a single eschatological system of interpretation.

Disagreement on the Nature of the Judgments at the Second Coming of Christ
The main disagreement among posttribs is in regard to the time and the order of these judgments. Gundry holds that the judgment of the nations and the judgment seat of Christ take place at the end of the Millennium. However, posttribs usually lump the various judgments together at the Second Coming. If they are premil, they place the judgments before the Millennium.

Disagreement as to a Specific Order of Events at the Time of the Second Coming
Posttribulationists rarely offer a specific sequence of events in connection with the Second Coming of Christ. What little order they do give, they disagree with one another (e.g., compare classic, semiclassic, futurist, and dispensational posttribulational interpretations).

The Problem of Classic Posttribulationism
The problem here is the impossibility of explaining all the predicted events leading up to the Second Coming of Christ as either past or contemporaneous.

The Problems of Semiclassic Posttribulationism
Those who hold to this view are not agreed as to how far to interpret prophecy literally.

Those who hold to this view have failed in attempting to affirm any reasonable sequence of events relating to the Second Coming.

The Problems of Dispensational Posttribulationism
Gundry regards the tribulation as a time of satanic wrath but not a time of divine wrath. However, Rev. 6:16 says it is a time of the "wrath of the lamb."

Gundry places the judgments at the end of the Millennium. The motivation for this seems to be that it is impossible to have a judgment of the sheep and the goats following the Second Coming of Christ if, as a matter of fact, the Rapture has taken place shortly before at the Second Advent itself.

The Problem of the Distinction between the Church and Israel
Most posttribs include in the church the saints of all ages. They must spiritualize scripture to accomplish this. They argue that since "saints" are in the great tribulation, the church must apparently go through it.

Gundry is the exception to this in that he attempts to distinguish between the church and Israel. (Cf. separate handout on Gundry).

The Problem of Daniel
Posttribulationism destroys the unity of Daniel's seventieth week, and also confuses Israel's program with that of the church.

The Problem of Titus 2:13
Posttribulationists have not adequately dealt with this passage where believers are exhorted to look for "the glorious appearing" of Christ to His own. If the Rapture follows the Tribulation, believers would then look for signs instead of His coming.

The Problem of Purification
Believers are exhorted to purify themselves (1 Jn. 3:2, 3) in light of the fact that the Lord could appear at "any moment." It would not make sense for a believer to purify himself for the tribulation (which would be the case if posttribulationism were correct).

The Problem of John 14:1-3
At the Rapture, the church goes to the Father's house, and not back to earth again as posttribulationists hold.

 

[letusgo27]

.

That leads me to believe that in order for things to be "as in the days of Noah," these unions between angels and humans must happen again. But before the destruction begins, the righteous must be removed from the planet.

QUOTE]

where is your evidence for this notion of anfels uniting with people?

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

theres alot of stuff on this forum on the fallen angels and there connection to noahs day but its probably a diffrent subject then what is supposed to be on this rapture area i dont know i didnt start this thread and am not sure if its acceptable or not for this area (other then the point that it will be as it was in noahs days again) but theres a handful of threads iv added stuff to just the past few days. enoch taken out before the flood in noahs days and in a simular way lot leaves before the destruction in Sodom.
Noah's Day & Lot's Day— How It Was - End Times Events— compares the Days of Noah & Days of Lot with the End Times Events & the Last Days that we are living in right now which is Before the Return of Jesus Christ. (Luke 17:26-33, Matt 24:37-39, 2 Pet 2:4-9) Jesus is Coming back soon to Judge the World, and to set up His Kingdom (2 Tim 4:1).

In Luke 17:26-33 Jesus says that in the Last Days right before He Returns to Earth, the People alive on this Earth will be conducting their lives "Business as Usual." People will be Indifferent about the Lord, and Indifferent to Obeying God's Word out of a Love for Jesus (John 14:15). People will be caught up in the affairs of this life, Enjoying "Banquets, Parties, Weddings, Eating, Drinking, Buying, Selling, Farming, Building— going about their Daily Business"— and then Sudden Destruction will occur— Just like in Noah's Day, and just like in Lot's Day, Jesus says.

Luke 17:26-33 Jesus says, “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s Day. In those Days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all. “And the world will be as it was in the Days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building— until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the Day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that Day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home. Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it."

Matthew 24:37-39 Jesus says, “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s Day. In those Days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes."

2 Peter 2:4-9 "For God did not spare even the Angels who Sinned. He threw them into hell, in Gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the Day of Judgment. And God did not spare the ancient world—except for Noah and the Seven others in his family. Noah Warned the World of God’s Righteous Judgment. So God protected Noah when He destroyed the World of Ungodly People with a vast Flood. Later, God condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and turned them into Heaps of Ashes. He made them an Example of what will happen to Ungodly People. But God also Rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a Righteous Man who was sick of the shameful Immorality of the wicked people around him. Yes, Lot was a Righteous Man who was Tormented in his Soul by the Wickedness he saw and heard Day after Day. 9 So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the Day of Final Judgment."

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

As it was in the days of Noah…

Bible Prophecy and the Return of Jesus
As it was in the days of Noah…

Alright… straight into it! Let’s start with a question. When Jesus describes His return in the New Testament, He compares it to the days of two different characters in the Old Testament. Do you know who they are? An easy one I know and I’m sure you’ve already said Elijah and Enoch. Ok, I can’t trick you. It’s Noah and Lot. Jesus said ‘As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man.’ It makes sense then, I’m sure you’ll agree, to study the days of Noah and the days of Lot to gain some insight into what they may teach us for the days still to come. This study will concentrate on the days of Noah, specifically looking at the first ten verses of Genesis chapter 6.


E.T, up close, personal, and not so friendly.



Gen 6:1-2 ‘When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.’



In describing the days of Noah, we read of a strange event that kicks things off. The Bible says that the ‘sons of God’ married the ‘daughters of men’! The ‘sons of God’ is a term used to denote angels, so the chapter starts with the dramatic increase and contact between the human and spirit worlds. I’m not saying that the end times leading up to the return of Jesus will see the same type of sexual union that occurred here in Genesis 6 (it may, but there doesn’t seem to be alot of scriptures that support this), but there will be a dramatic increase in the contact between humans and the spirit world as the time of Jesus’ return draws closer. We see this already whether it is through the increased use of spirit guides, alien encounters, or open satanic worship. It will continue and it will increase. If you have read anything of those who are allegedly in contact with the ‘aliens’ and ‘spirit guides’ you will notice the same claims coming through that these beings are going to show themselves physically to those on earth soon.


The corrupting of the human race.



Gen 6:4 ‘The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.’



The second point that should be made about the ‘days of Noah’ is the corruption of the human race that occurred. We read above in verse 4 that the Nephilim were on the earth in those days… and not only then because we read, in a slightly haunting phrase, ‘and also afterward’. The word ‘Nephilim’ means ‘fallen ones’ and they were the giants, men of renown, who were the offspring of the fallen angels and women as mentioned above. It was Satan’s attempt to pervert God’s plan of having the Messiah come from the seed of a woman (Gen 3:15). As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be… This corruption of the human race was the main reason for the flood, and it is happening again. This time it is humans initiating the corruption through cloning and DNA manipulation. There very well may be good intentions involved but you cannot help but think where it will all end when a sinful fallen race decides to play God. God stepped in (in a big way!) to put a stop to the corruption in the time of Noah and God will put a stop to it again.


Wicked… yet tolerance reigns.



Gen 6:5 ‘The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.



Oh boy! What a statement. It says above that in the time of Noah, every inclination of the thoughts of mans heart was only evil, continually. Now we are certainly not at that stage yet, but we do seem to be on the way! Basic morals are changing so quickly these days. This shouldn’t surprise us for it is prophesied that



‘There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.’ (2 Tim 3:1-4)



A few months ago I heard Stuart Briscoe speak and he mentioned how when he was young there were many virtues and many vices... many things that were morally right and to be desired, and many things that were morally wrong and were to be shunned and rejected. Today, Briscoe said, we are heading for a society that has only one virtue and one vice. That one virtue, that one thing to be desired above all is ‘tolerance’. And the one vice, that one ‘wicked’ thing that is to be rejected and shunned is of course, ‘intolerance’. In the days of Noah, men’s hearts were wicked and the Lord was grieved that He had made man. His judgement had to come. So shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man.


The restraining of the Holy Spirit removed



Gen 6:2,6 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever…The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.’



Push things far enough and something has got to give… something has to break. The Lord’s patience is amazing but it didn’t last forever in the time of Noah, and it won’t last forever in the days leading up to the return of Jesus. Judgement will come. The verses above say that the Lord was grieved in the days of Noah and that His Spirit would not contend with man forever. A limit was put on the wickedness of man and judgement came. The Holy Spirit, Jesus told us, currently convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. But the New Testament speaks of a time when the sinful hearts of men will not be restrained and this current work of the Holy Spirit will be removed.



2 Thes 2:7-12 ‘For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way… The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.’



The Bible speaks of this scary time coming when God Himself will send a powerful delusion upon the inhabitants of earth because they ‘refused to love the truth’! So not only will the restraining work of the Holy Spirit be removed, but God will send a sign so great that they will believe the lies of the Antichrist. The Spirit of the Lord will not strive against a stubborn proud humanity forever and His judgement will come.


The dramatic intervention of God



Genesis 6:7 ‘So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”



God, as I hope you know, is amazingly king and patient. He desires, as 1 Timothy 2:4 tells us, ‘that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. This current time of His patience should be seen as an opportunity for people’s salvation. (2 Pet 3:9,15) But there came a time in the days of Noah that the dramatic intervention of God was called for. This intervention is what Peter remind us of when he writes



1 Pet 3:3-7 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.



The Bible warns us that people ‘deliberately forget’ that God has judged the world and they like to ‘deliberately forget’ that He will do it again. But as sure as He judged the world the first time, so shall it be done again, and just as the judgement of the flood covered the entire earth so shall the entire earth be affected by the next judgement. I am reminded of the sobering lyrics of a Bob Dylan song…



‘My so-called friends, have fallen under a spell.

They look me squarely in the eye, and say, “well, all is well.”

Can they imagine the darkness, that will fall from on high,

When men will beg God to kill them, and they won’t be able to die.’


Ready, watching, walking.


Genesis 6:8-9 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD…Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.



The final point (and a good place to conclude this study) that stands out about the days of Noah is, of course, Noah himself! Noah was a righteous man. He ‘walked with God’ just as his great grandfather Enoch had done. It has been said that Noah was building the ark for over 100 years. Imagine the mockery he would have faced! Imagine the patience and faith Noah exhibited as he stood true to his belief, year after year, without seeing any fulfilment of God’s word to him. Imagine the heart ache for this ‘preacher of righteousness’ (2 Pet 2:5) when not one soul outside of his family would believe him and turn from his wicked ways. (And you thought you were an unsuccessful evangelist!)



Through it all stood Noah. Pressing on with what God had called him to, despite all the opposition and ridicule that the enemy could stir up! How different Noah was in his age… a righteous man shining as a light in a dark world. How different from the world we should be today! While we will look further at this point in much greater detail when in the study of ‘the days of Lot’, the main point that Jesus alluded to when examining the days of Noah was the need, like Noah, to be ready for His coming. That need is even greater for us today as we clearly see that day approaching.



So, may you be like Noah and walk with God. May you redeem the time, in whatever way God is calling you to, making the most of the opportunities you have, for the time is short. May you be found watching, waiting and ready for that hour is at hand!

(1) Some have had problems with the fact that angels could mate with humans and have tried to say that the term ‘sons of God’ is speaking about the godly line of Seth. I see no proof of this and it goes against the clear teaching of scripture. The term ‘sons of God’ is used exclusively in the Old Testament concerning angels (see Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7). When the 70 Jewish scholars that worked on the Septuagint (a translation of the Old Testament Hebrew scriptures into Greek) translated the term ‘sons of God’ in Gen 6:2, they used ‘Angels of God’. Some like to quote Matt 22:30 to prove that angels cannot marry or procreate, but Jesus was addressing the ‘angels in heaven’. Genesis 6 speaks not of the obedient angels in Heaven, but of fallen angels on earth! Furthermore, anytime angels are seen by humans they are seen as male (Gen 18:1-19:22, Mark 16:5-7, Luke 24:4-7, Acts 1:10-11) and in the Genesis 18:1-19:22 passage we even see (unfortunately) that the ungodly men of Sodom ‘desired’ the angels for themselves! The thought behind this is that the men of Sodom thought that sexual union was possible. 2 Pet 2:4-5 and Jude 6-7 also throw some light onto this passage. Jude tells us that the angels abandoned their proper abode and then contrasts their actions with that of Sodom and Gomorrah, who ‘in the same manner’ went after strange flesh. The term ‘strange flesh’ means to go after an unnatural sexual union. For the men of Sodom it was homosexuality, but for these fallen angels it was inter-marrying with human women.



(2) In his book ‘The Worlds Last Dictator’ Dwight L. Kinman quotes Jaques Valle, the world’s most renowned astrophysist, who said “UFO’s are real but probably not physical: they are part of some evil scheme for the victimization of humans and one of their major purposes is to manipulate human consciousness and to program mankind for some ultimate deception.”



“I believe there is a machinery of mass manipulation behind the UFO phenomenon… they are helping create a new belief system… they are designed to help change belief systems, and that the technology we observe is only the incidental support for a world wide enterprise of subliminal seduction.”



[3] The only other place where the Nephilim are mentioned is in Num 13:33 where the Israelites who spied out the Promised Land came back with a report saying ‘All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.” So these giants existed after the flood as well.



[4] An example of this can be seen in the following, crazy, story.

“The first person to be prosecuted for religious hatred under laws brought in after the September 11 attacks has been ordered to compensate a neighbour who said Osama Bin Laden was a great man.

Electronics engineer Alistair Scott, 33, of Exeter, must give £100 to three neighbours after he told them he hated their Muslim religion because of the terrorist atrocities. Student Mohammad Hudaib had said September 11 was a great day. Bin Laden was a great man and all Americans deserved to die. He also spat and insulted Scott’s family. Scott, who admitted religiously aggravated threatening behaviour, was also ordered by Exeter magistrates to do 200 hours community service.



[5] Jesus also said that in the last days the signs and wonders performed will be so great that ‘even the elect would be deceived if it were possible.’ Quite a few Bible Prophecy teachers have proposed the idea that the powerful delusion could be tied to the emergence of an alien spaceship or direct visible contact with aliens (which in realty are demonic encounters). That will sound extreme to some, but it does tie in with the days of Noah, and Hollywood has certainly been getting people used to the idea in the last decade or two. It would also be a ‘powerful delusion’ strong enough to shake people’s belief to the core. All these things have been prophesied before they come to pass so that your hope will be firmly rooted in the truth of God’s word.



[6] The story is told of an atheist that was debating a Christian. The atheist said ‘I’ll prove to you that there is no God. God, if you are there, I dare you to strike me down and kill me right now!’ With the atheist still alive, the Christian turned and said ‘All that you have just proved is the love, grace, and patience that God has towards a wicked and proud humanity.’ The Christian is right. If I was God, then look out any proud, wicked atheist that challenges me! Thankfully I’m not. But as it was in the days of Noah, God has set aside a time when He says that ‘enough is enough’.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

As it was in the days of Lot…

Bible Prophecy and the Return of Jesus
As it was in the days of Lot…


You would have seen from the study on the days of Noah that Jesus compared His return to the days of two men – No prizes for saying Noah, because I have just given that away! And I can’t really hand out prizes for the correct identification of Lot either because his name is in the title of this study! So we can learn, Jesus said, something about the last days and His return by looking at the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Now, you don’t have to be the biggest scholar in the world to know that these were not ‘the good old days’! In fact, they stand out in the Bible as probably being the two most extreme judgements by God in the entire Old Testament. This study then will focus on the days of Lot. We will look at what is written concerning Him in the book of Genesis and will conclude by looking at what the New Testament emphasises the most when speaking of the days of Noah and Lot


Oh that dreadful sin of inhospitality!



Gen 18:16-21 ‘When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. Then the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. … Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”



So we have picked up the story in Genesis chapter 18 where the Lord Himself has come down to visit Abraham and to see if the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is as bad as it really is. Now, obviously, God knows everything and doesn’t need to come down and look! But He has done so here so that His servant Abraham would understand the need for the coming judgement. And it would give Abraham the chance to see the justice of God in sparing those who were innocent. Now I’m sure you know what sin it was that was so grievous that the Lord Himself came down to see if it was really that bad… that’s right, it was that terrible grievous sin of inhospitality! Well maybe not! Despite what some scholars with their own agendas may say, the Bible is clear on the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.



Jude 7 ”In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”



With Jesus contrasting His return to the days of Lot, it shouldn’t be surprising that sexual immorality in the form of homosexuality is increasing in our day. That some so called Christian ministers just see it as an ‘alternative lifestyle’ should surprise and shock us however.


Will God judge the righteous with the wicked?



Gen 18:22-25 ‘The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD. Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”



As it was in the days of Lot, so shall it be. God’s patience with sinful men has its limits and judgement will come. As the Apostle Paul told those in Athens



Acts 17:30-31 ‘God … now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed.’



That ‘day’ is called the ‘day of the Lord’. Now the question that Abraham asked in the days of Lot is essentially the same question that many ask today. We know from the Bible that this day of the Lord, the day of Judgement is coming. But will the righteous (the Church - the Lord’s bride) go through this time? Will they experience the judgement of God along with the world? To ask it, is to answer it is it not? You don’t have to be Einstein to know that the Lord does not judge the righteous with the wicked! He is just! Peter picks up on this very point in 2 Pet 2:6



‘..if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless … if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment…’



Paul also speaks of the coming day of the Lord and again confirms that the Church will not experience this time of judgement upon the earth. 1 Thess 5:2-5



‘…you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.



Lot’s solemn responsibility



Gen 19:12-14 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.” So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.



We pick up the story again in the next chapter. The two angels that came to Lot have warned him to tell his other family members about the coming judgment from God. What a responsibility Lot had! He knew that the judgment was coming. He knew that anyone who remains in Sodom would perish because of that judgment. You can probably imagine his pleas with his sons in law to escape. And yet they didn’t listen. And why should they listen? “Cities don’t just get destroyed by fire” they would have thought. “God doesn’t just judge like that… He is a God of love. Lot must be joking or possibly the lift isn’t going to the top floor anymore! We’ll be fine!”



If you are a Christian then Lot’s responsibility is also your responsibility. This time, we are the ones that have been given the warning in advance that judgement is coming. And we are the ones who alone know that only by fleeing to Christ is true safety found.



The hesitation of Lot…



Gen 19:15-17 “With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.” When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”



Lot knew that God was going to destroy the whole place… yet he hesitated to leave! Why do you think that was? Mmmm? Why would he hesitate? To get his possessions and spare cash? A bite to eat maybe? Favourite television program? Not quite… There is only one logical answer – because of the people. His heart was still with his sons in law who would not accept what he said. That is what made him hesitate. Nothing else really mattered. Let me ask you a question… Is there someone who would make you hesitate? Is there someone that the Lord has put on your heart to share the good news with and you’ve put it off? If so, tell the Lord again that you are willing to be obedient and ask Him to give you the opportunity.



Well, you probably know the rest of the story. Lot and his daughters escape Sodom. But as the judgement of fire falls, Lot’s wife, disobeying the commands of the angels who had rescued them, looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt.


Ready, ready, ready!!!



Luke 17:28-30 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.’



Matt 24:37-43 “As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man… “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come… So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.



I want to end this study with one last look at the main point that Jesus wanted to portray in using the examples of both Lot and Noah. And that is the importance of simply being ‘ready’. This means don’t fall asleep in your faith! Watch and be aware of the time in which you live! Look for the signs of the Lord’s near return and realise that it could be this very day. There is nothing that could stop Jesus coming back for His church today. There are no prophecies that have to be fulfilled before the bridegroom can return to take His bride back to the home he has prepared for her. When we look at the two passages above, we see that the main point that Jesus is making is that life in the times of Noah and Lot was going on as normal. They were eating, drinking, getting married. It was business as normal. They had no idea that judgment was right at the door. And yet, like a thief in the night, it came. Jesus’ return for His bride is going to occur just as quickly and suddenly. Are you ready?

 

[Stephen1]

DMQ,

Good post

From my website:

There are many today who seek the tribulation period and feel the need to be judged and for "purification" they say. There seems to be an intrinsic need for receiving the Lord's unmitigated wrath during His coming judgment against human intransigence in spite of the truth about the matter as the scriptures tell. This is a strange thing indeed.

There will be a place for them if they are living at the time of the beginning of the period and in they will go. This is a Biblical fact. There are even some who claim super "elite" status and that they will somehow be made into invincible perfected beings for the purpose of establishing the Lord's coming millennial kingdom themselves before He gets involved.

There are some who claim "protected" status by billing themselves as the 144,000 sealed mortal Israelites, or the believing part of national Israel who will flee into the Jordanian wilderness, and even the two prophets who will stand before the Lord in Jerusalem. These protections are limited and specific; and only if one is an ethnic Israelite. And there are even some who look forward to martyrdom and having their heads removed.

All of these argue themselves into the events of the tribulation with much vigor and attempt to convince others to go with them by supporting their views with scripture by aberrant teaching. I say let them go. Do not fight the issue with them. The Lord will execute His coming judgment against unbelief and related actions in spite of what humans think. He will not change His schedule.

Revelation
16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame [parenthetical].

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1Thessalonians,
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout [command], with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [harpazo] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great *****, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them [the 24 elders and the great multitude]: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [the martyrs of the tribulation period]; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WARNING: The believer must be ready for the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize the Church and not to be found refuting His promise. There are only two resurrections to immortality scheduled during the tribulation period .... the Lord's two prophets and the tribulation martyrs. No others are described. The gatherings of a few surviving mortals at the end of the tribulation period as noted in Matthew 24:29-31 and 25:31-46 are not resurrections.

 

[greatlybeloved]

where is your evidence for this notion of anfels uniting with people?

Incidentally I wrote a blog on "sons of God" and "Giants" a while ago that addresses this issue of union between angels and "daughters of men". The blog also shows that this phenomena is going to be repeated in the last days. Please have a look:

http://www.talkjesus.com/blogs/greatlybeloved/1807-sons-god-giants.html

 

[eddieb]

i dont want to start a flame war here. but how do you explain amos 5:18

Woe unto you who desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of The Lord is darkness and not light.

 

[spirit1st]

There Are Lots of scriptures to go both ways!

But to me the true Question is? Would GOD pour out HIS Wrath upon HIS Sons HOLY BODY , After HIS Son paid such a Dear Price to gain HIS BODY!
Personally life has no meaning to me, But to serve MY FATHER GOD though JESUS CHRIST MY LORD!

NO greater thing can I do, But to laty down my life daily for MY LORD and maybe give up it 100% here for HIM?

But He said Pray you are worthy to escape this time period! So I do!

 

[greatlybeloved]

eddieb,

i dont want to start a flame war here. but how do you explain amos 5:18

Woe unto you who desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of The Lord is darkness and not light.

I didn't get your question. What is there to explain? I mean the "day of the Lord" is NOT something that we should look forward to. Like it is said in Amos, it is DARKNESS. But the believers are the "children of LIGHT" (1 Thessalonians 5:5). That is exactly what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5.

However, there is a misconception that the "day of the Lord" means "tribulation" (that we read in Matthew 24 and in other prophecies (called time of Jacob's trouble). But is it NOT. The day of the Lord is AFTER TRIBULATION. Please read the following verses:

Matthew 24:29 *"IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall THE SUN BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Joel 2:31 *"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD come."

So the sequence is this:
-> Tribulation
-> Signs in sun/moon/stars
-> The "day of the Lord"

And the "day of the Lord" is the actual WRATH OF GOD. The wrath will be poured on earth in SUPERNATURAL ways literally!

John.

 

[greatlybeloved]

spirit1st,

There Are Lots of scriptures to go both ways!

But to me the true Question is? Would GOD pour out HIS Wrath upon HIS Sons HOLY BODY , After HIS Son paid such a Dear Price to gain HIS BODY!
Personally life has no meaning to me, But to serve MY FATHER GOD though JESUS CHRIST MY LORD!

As for your question, would God pour wrath on the body of Christ? The answer is NO! We read in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that God has "NOT appointed us to wrath". But that "wrath" is NOT tribulation. The context of 1 Thessalonians 5 talks about the "day of the Lord" and how we the "children of light" will escape the "day of the Lord". So the "wrath" in verse.9 is the wrath of God that falls upon the world on the day of the Lord.

The tribulation is mostly Satan's wrath on the Children of Israel. That is what we read in Revelation 12:17. Whether we the body of Christ would escape THAT period of time (tribulation) is not documented anywhere (here I'm assuming the theory that Israel and the body of Christ are different).

John.

 

[Stephen1]

"The tribulation is mostly Satan's wrath on the Children of Israel"

Not entirely .... the Lord's coming hour [time] of trial [the tribulation period of 2,550] days will be against an unbelieving intransigent world .... very few will survive it

All of the tribulation time lapse is the Lord's wrath .... not just part of it

All of the judgment events recorded in Revelation come from Him as evidenced by the trumpet soundings .... all of this will come from heaven by the Lord's command

The Lord will give the world the devil because of refusing to believe the truth about Him .... so satan's rage will be used by the Lord and then the Lord will destroy him and his angelic and human followers [2Thessalonians 2:8-12] [Revelation 17: 16-18] [Ezekiel 38, 39; Micah 5; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-20; 20:1-3; 20:7-10]

All of this is the beginning of the day [time] of the Lord .... the tribulation period .... and then His millennial kingdom on the earth

 

[greatlybeloved]

Stephen,

You have to back up your statements with the Scripture. Although God "allows" Satan and his angels to rage at the world, it is not God's wrath (I have not found a single verse that suggests that). I mean God's wrath will be poured on the ungodly ON the "day of the Lord". That is what we (the body of Christ) are promised that we would escape. But as I showed from Joel 2 and Matthew 24, the day of the Lord starts AFTER tribulation.

Whether the whole 3 1/2 years would be tribulation or if the tribulation lasts only a part of 3 1/2 years, I don't know (need to study). But what I do know is that, the tribulation ENDS with signs in sun, moon and stars and THOSE signs mark the beginning of the "day of the Lord".

John.

 

[Stephen1]

"You have to back up your statements with the Scripture."

>So do you son

>I always do

>What do the scriptures tell us about just whose wrath is coming, how, and why?

>The Lord's judgment ..... or satan's?

>You tell me

>Satan is merely the Lord's dupe in the process

2Thessalonians
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Revelation
17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great *****, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

>This thread is actually about the evidence of the Lord's pre-tribulation immortalization of today's church

>This truth is totally supported by scripture handsdown

>The evidence .... Revelation 4:4; 5:5-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 19:1-14; 20:4 (those on thrones)

..... those who dwell in heaven and around the throne and worshiping in the Lord's temple there during the tribulation period on the earth .... the immortalized church .... thoe asleep and those living at the time just beforte the Lord brings His coming hour [time] of trial which will lapse for 2,550 days [Daniel 9, 12]

>Revelation repeats this theme as the events of the tribuation period unfold

 

[spirit1st]

REVELATIONS 12:17 is the same story starting over!!
At the end of Revelations !1 it reveal that judgment has begin ! At Revelation 12 .It beginning the same story all over again , telling it a different way!

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Both appear to me the judgment day!


1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

 

[spirit1st]

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.


Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.



Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.





Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.



Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



GOD has made it All so simple! Yet it comfounds us when we lean to our understanding!

You know , the disciples thought these things would take place in there life times!
They were Very close to the LORD!

He explained everything to them! Much more than we have written in the bible !


I have not been studing revealations in years to any degree !read it a number of times!

I do think many miss the fact it is told twice1
and there for ,get things a bit confused! But trying to look at it as one story! When in Fact it the same story told twice , but in different ways!

 

[Stephen1]

Revelation is repetative and it is necessary to know this fact for correct rendering

One also needs to know that the seals represent the prevailing conditions of the tribulation period and that they are not the actual judgments themselves

All of the seals must be removed from the scroll by the Lord just before the actual judgments begin in chapter 8

Today's church will be immortal and will observe the Lord's removal of the seals [the 24 elders and the great multitude]

The seal conditions symbolized are:

1.The spreading of the gospel of the kingdom
2.Intense angelic and human warfare on the earth
3.Economic collapse and resulting effects
4.Massive human death
5.Martydom of those who will become believers during the period
6.Human reaction to the Lord's judgments on the earth
7.Silence in heaven just before the judgments fall

A prime example of Revelation's repeating literary structure is chapter 7 and chapter 14

Both cover the same 2,550 days and each gives distinctive and specific features of the same tribulation period

.... the 144,00 Israelites are sealed in chapter 7 at the beginning of the period and they are seen again in chapter 14 with the Lord at the beginning of the period with more details given

The reader needs to discover these repetitions and when they occur in order to understand the Lord's view of the period of His coming hour [time] of trial and judgment against an unbelieving world

 

[eddieb]

eddieb,



I didn't get your question. What is there to explain? I mean the "day of the Lord" is NOT something that we should look forward to. Like it is said in Amos, it is DARKNESS. But the believers are the "children of LIGHT" (1 Thessalonians 5:5). That is exactly what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5.

However, there is a misconception that the "day of the Lord" means "tribulation" (that we read in Matthew 24 and in other prophecies (called time of Jacob's trouble). But is it NOT. The day of the Lord is AFTER TRIBULATION. Please read the following verses:

Matthew 24:29 *"IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall THE SUN BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Joel 2:31 *"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD come."

So the sequence is this:
-> Tribulation
-> Signs in sun/moon/stars
-> The "day of the Lord"

And the "day of the Lord" is the actual WRATH OF GOD. The wrath will be poured on earth in SUPERNATURAL ways literally!

John.

im in agreement with you totaly. there must be some misunderstanding.