God’s ways are not our ways - Don’t read into the Bible your own desires and sensibilities!

[KingJ]

Nowhere in that link does it say that child sacrifice was not practised by people of that time and place. Google Child sacrifice

Psalm 106:37 "Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto false gods"

1 Cor 20:20 " No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons."


Deuteronomy 12:31
You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed to demons, not to God, to gods they had not known, to newly arrived gods, which your fathers did not fear.

2 Kings 16:3
Instead, he walked in the way of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

2 Kings 17:17
They sacrificed their sons and daughters in the fire and practiced divination and soothsaying. They devoted themselves to doing evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger.

Rabbi A.I. Kook, (speaking on the sacrifice of Issac by Abraham) the first Chief Rabbi of Israel, stressed that the climax of the story, commanding Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac, is the whole point: to put an end to the ritual of child sacrifice, which contradicts the morality of a perfect and giving (not taking) monotheistic God. and according to Irving Greenberg ( Irving Greenberg, also known as Yitz Greenberg, is a Jewish-American scholar and author who identifies as a Modern Orthodox rabbi. ) the story of the binding of Isaac, symbolises the prohibition to worship God by human sacrifices, at a time when human sacrifices were the norm worldwide.

You are reaching. I take it you did not actually read those verses.

Deuteronomy 12:31You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

 

[KingJ]

Google Child sacrifice
Psalm 106:37 "Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto false gods"

2 Kings 17:17
They sacrificed their sons and daughters in the fire and practiced divination and soothsaying. They devoted themselves to doing evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger.

I just want to speak to these two. The rest of the verses you quoted just say sacrifice.

Yes, they sacrificed children, babies to their false gods. This does not equate to God wanting the same. You are comparing God with Baphomet?

Please read the link. If you make another statement, I am going to copy paste the entire post here. It speaks to the full context. You cannot cherry pick scripture.

 

[Sue D.]

People back in Bible times were still people just like you and I. They had their false gods and obeyed them and did sacrifice their children to their 'gods' to appease them and they also had their fertility gods -- temple prostitution. Which is why God told them that if they wanted to worship a 'god' to worship the one and only True God -- Himself.

And 'we' have Our false gods. What do 'we' worship along with or in place of God. Do 'we' end up loosing a spouse or job or 'whatever' because we put something in our lives that is 'destroying' us?

As for being willing to sacrifice your own child to God if He would ask that of you. Well -- God Did test Abraham -- Abraham Was willing to give his one and only son, Isaac , Back to God. And, at the last minute -- God DID provide the ram. Guess it depends on how much a person really Does trust that God Does know Best.

If one of 'us' was threatened -- either reject God / Jesus Christ and accept another belief system OR Die -- how Would we react. Would 'we' be willing To die For our faith Knowing that in physical death, we'd be with Jesus Christ immediately? Or if one of our loved ones was tortured Because of our faith, what would we do. Hopefully we'd have the assurance that that loved one would be in heaven eventually with No pain. That's how the enemy Has operated in the past. 'They' try to 'break the believer'.

These days, God calls people to go to the mission field -- thus - adult kids are 'given to God' by their parents for God's Will in their lives.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Yes, they sacrificed children, babies to their false gods.

That is my point. Now we can continue. Child sacrifice was around at that time and place to which you have agreed. Give me some time must make supper for my gran-kids and nanna is breathing down my neck

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

People back in Bible times were still people just like you and I. They had their false gods and obeyed them and did sacrifice their children to their 'gods' to appease them and they also had their fertility gods -- temple prostitution. Which is why God told them that if they wanted to worship a 'god' to worship the one and only True God -- Himself.

And 'we' have Our false gods. What do 'we' worship along with or in place of God. Do 'we' end up loosing a spouse or job or 'whatever' because we put something in our lives that is 'destroying' us?

As for being willing to sacrifice your own child to God if He would ask that of you. Well -- God Did test Abraham -- Abraham Was willing to give his one and only son, Isaac , Back to God. And, at the last minute -- God DID provide the ram. Guess it depends on how much a person really Does trust that God Does know Best.

If one of 'us' was threatened -- either reject God / Jesus Christ and accept another belief system OR Die -- how Would we react. Would 'we' be willing To die For our faith Knowing that in physical death, we'd be with Jesus Christ immediately? Or if one of our loved ones was tortured Because of our faith, what would we do. Hopefully we'd have the assurance that that loved one would be in heaven eventually with No pain. That's how the enemy Has operated in the past. 'They' try to 'break the believer'.

These days, God calls people to go to the mission field -- thus - adult kids are 'given to God' by their parents for God's Will in their lives.

Yep - can't disagree much with what you said.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Yes, they sacrificed children, babies to their false gods. This does not equate to God wanting the same. You are comparing God with Baphomet?

Please read the link. If you make another statement, I am going to copy paste the entire post here. It speaks to the full context. You cannot cherry pick scripture.

I did read the link and you are entitled to post that in full if you like, but before you do please realise that, Amy K. Hall is not a Christian scholar. She is an apologetics blogger. An apologist without formal qualifications carries as much weight as your average devout, loyal and willing Christian believer. For instance she (and myself and as you do KingJ) and understandably so begin with the premise that a good God will not allow or tolerate child sacrifice and as such it is unconditionally repugnant to God.

I do not know enough about ancient Canaanites and Hebrew society therefore I must allow unbiased trained experts to advice and so with out further ado I point you to Hector Avalos, Professor of Religious Studies, at Iowa State University who says on the topic:

“ Yet scholars like Jon Levenson, (the Albert A. List professor of Jewish Studies at Harvard Divinity School.) states that "only at a particular stage rather late in the history of Israel was child sacrifice branded as counter to the will of God (YHWH) and thus idolatrous. He points to Ezekiel 20:25-26, as one example where Yahweh says:

[25] Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life;

[26] and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the LORD.

But of which statutes is Yahweh speaking when referring the sacrifice of a first-born son? That statute may be the one in Exodus 22:29-30:

[ 29 ] "You shall not delay to offer from the fulness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses.

"The first-born of your sons you shall give to me.

[30] You shall do likewise with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its dam; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.

As Levenson observes, many Christian and Jewish scholars have tried to mitigate or eliminate the obvious meaning of these passages. But even Moshe Greenberg, author of a major commentary of Ezekiel, and who otherwise minimizes the idea that normative Yahwism engaged in child sacrifice, admits:

The polemic against child sacrifice (to YHWH) in Deut. 12:29ff.; Jer 7:31; 19:5, 32:35 indicates that at least from the time of the last kings of Judah it was popularly believed that YHWH accepted, perhaps even commanded, it.

For Levenson, it was late texts that sought to substitute animals for actual human first-born sons. Genesis 22, which shows Yahweh substituting a ram for Isaac, is part of a late biblical tradition. Indeed, in Genesis 22, Abraham seems to presume that child sacrifice is not an impossible request, and it is the substitution of the ram that is unexpected.

For most of biblical history, Yahweh was not against child sacrifice per se, but rather against child sacrifice to other gods.

 

[KingJ]

I did read the link and you are entitled to post that in full if you like, but before you do please realise that, Amy K. Hall is not a Christian scholar. She is an apologetics blogger. An apologist without formal qualifications carries as much weight as your average devout, loyal and willing Christian believer. For instance she (and myself and as you do KingJ) and understandably so begin with the premise that a good God will not allow or tolerate child sacrifice and as such it is unconditionally repugnant to God.

She posted the context of your cherry picked verses. She can be a six year old about to start school for all I care.

Are you copying and pasting ''ridiculously biased'' posts from atheist sites now?

Please tell me which part of Deut 12:31 was confusing to you. You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

 

[Dovegiven]

She posted the context of your cherry picked verses. She can be a six year old about to start school for all I care.

Are you copying and pasting ''ridiculously biased'' posts from atheist sites now?

Please tell me which part of Deut 12:31 was confusing to you. You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

Cut through the slop. God inspired a prophet to proclaim, and for the fulfillment of, the slaughter of babes from age 2 and below in and all around Bethlehem to the sea, by Herod, who desired to eradicate Jesus, King of the Jews.

 

[Sue D.]

She posted the context of your cherry picked verses. She can be a six year old about to start school for all I care.

Are you copying and pasting ''ridiculously biased'' posts from atheist sites now?

Please tell me which part of Deut 12:31 was confusing to you. You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

Chapter 12:29 is where the context starts.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

She posted the context of your cherry picked verses. She can be a six year old about to start school for all I care.

Are you copying and pasting ''ridiculously biased'' posts from atheist sites now?

Please tell me which part of Deut 12:31 was confusing to you. You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

Nope - not atheist per se sites but recognised and reputable Bible research sites. In any case most atheists are ex Christians and know more of the Bible than your average believer. They know both the good and the bad in the Bible. Whereas when they were devout believers they would always, like you, tend to concentrate on cheery picked edifying and positive verses from the Bible in order to build faith. Read the title of this OP.

"God’s ways are not our ways - Don’t read into the Bible your own desires and sensibilities!" You are guilty of doing just that in your understandably defence of God, who you think you understand. We can only know God based on the Bible. You will not hear any bad spoken about someone you love so you are reacting in a personal way against any perceived slight on God's character. Thereby missing the boat. Your emotions have clouded your cognitive processes.

For instance in that article you posted by Amy K. Hall her explanations are not entirely true. She is an apologist like you. Any person with a formal education in the OT Bible will cut her to pieces. She speaks about redemptive sacrifice. But forgets to realise that the concept of "redemption" goes hand in hand with child sacrifice, because animals were substituted for the firstborn.

The better sacrifice was the firstborn child himself, and many people in the Old Testament did just that.

Our Lord Jesus was a better sacrifice than all the Bulls and goats. Animal sacrifice were irritating to God. In fact they insulted him. How do we know this look at Heb

For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshippers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins. 3 Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me." 6 In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.’”8 In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,14 because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10 BSB

According to your logic God the Father should never have sacrificed His only begotten Son Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

Nope - not atheist per se sites but recognised and reputable Bible research sites. In any case most atheists are ex Christians and know more of the Bible than your average believer. They know both the good and the bad in the Bible. Whereas when they were devout believers they would always, like you, tend to concentrate on cheery picked edifying and positive verses from the Bible in order to build faith. Read the title of this OP.

Atheists who were ex-Christians run the risk of receiving the harsher punishments God has reserved for false teaching. They now hate God and are able to manipulate scripture just as the devil does.

"God’s ways are not our ways - Don’t read into the Bible your own desires and sensibilities!" You are guilty of doing just that in your understandably defence of God, who you think you understand. We can only know God based on the Bible. You will not hear any bad spoken about someone you love so you are reacting in a personal way against any perceived slight on God's character. Thereby missing the boat. Your emotions have clouded your cognitive processes.

I judge myself harshly and have to disagree with you. I consider all verses. I look at where all the evidence points.

I believe you do not realize how much you cherry pick. In this thread you have cherry picked ''fire'' and insinuated God tortures. You cherry picked two verses that spoke to giving our firstborn to the Lord and insinuate God was ok with child murder.

For instance in that article you posted by Amy K. Hall her explanations are not entirely true. She is an apologist like you. Any person with a formal education in the OT Bible will cut her to pieces. She speaks about redemptive sacrifice. But forgets to realise that the concept of "redemption" goes hand in hand with child sacrifice, because animals were substituted for the firstborn.

She quoted these verses that you seem to have missed?

Exodus 13:1-2 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, Sanctify to Me every firstborn, the first offspring of every womb among the sons of Israel, both of man and beast; it belongs to Me.

Exodus 13:12-13 You shall devote to the Lord the first offspring of every womb, and the first offspring of every beast that you own; the males belong to the Lord. But every first offspring of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck; and every firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.

The better sacrifice was the firstborn child himself, and many people in the Old Testament did just that.

This is a classic example of the risk of cherry picking scripture.

Every person who knows the bible knows that when God wrote down what pleases and displeases Him on stone tablets, one of them was 'do not murder'. We also know that those who murdered in the OT were stoned to death.

You even quoted by ''accident'' Deut 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

God is disgusted at those that sacrifice their children.

 

[KingJ]

Our Lord Jesus was a better sacrifice than all the Bulls and goats. Animal sacrifice were irritating to God. In fact they insulted him. How do we know this look at Heb

For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshippers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins. 3 Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me." 6 In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.’”8 In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,14 because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10 BSB

Note 'blood of bulls and goats'. No 'children'.

According to your logic God the Father should never have sacrificed His only begotten Son Jesus.

Jesus is God John 10:30. God lay His life down for us. Self sacrifice is Christianity 101.

Rev 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matt 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Atheists who were ex-Christians run the risk of receiving the harsher punishments God has reserved for false teaching. They now hate God and are able to manipulate scripture just as the devil does.

I judge myself harshly and have to disagree with you. I consider all verses. I look at where all the evidence points.

I believe you do not realize how much you cherry pick. In this thread you have cherry picked ''fire'' and insinuated God tortures. You cherry picked two verses that spoke to giving our firstborn to the Lord and insinuate God was ok with child murder.



She quoted these verses that you seem to have missed?

Exodus 13:1-2 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, Sanctify to Me every firstborn, the first offspring of every womb among the sons of Israel, both of man and beast; it belongs to Me.

Exodus 13:12-13 You shall devote to the Lord the first offspring of every womb, and the first offspring of every beast that you own; the males belong to the Lord. But every first offspring of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck; and every firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.

This is a classic example of the risk of cherry picking scripture.

Every person who knows the bible knows that when God wrote down what pleases and displeases Him on stone tablets, one of them was 'do not murder'. We also know that those who murdered in the OT were stoned to death.

You even quoted by ''accident'' Deut 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

God is disgusted at those that sacrifice their children.

You said "God is disgusted at those that sacrifice their children."

Nope - not really if you read the Bible that is, for instance Just like Abraham who portrayed no moral abhorrence at Gods command in sacrificing Isaac, Micah who lived centuries later wanted to sacrifice his firstborn without any moral abhorrence whatsoever. Why? KingK Why?

Micah 6:6-8 Where with shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Or shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?


And not to be accused falsely of cheery picking lets see another event in scripture where the King of Moab sacrificed his son which caused the Israelites to retreat in defeat. Moab’s sacrifice created a great “wrath” which was an external force to the warriors in the story, indicating that his sacrifice caused some false god to act on behalf of Moab. The Israelite knew full well that if someone sacrifices his son to any god fearful things will happen.


2 Kings 3:26-27 “When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall.”


The overwhelming consensus of unbiased scholarly thought over the last decade concludes that child sacrifice was a part and parcel of ancient Israelite religion to large segments of Israelite communities at various periods. You need to read an unbiased scholarly book on ancient Israel. Like “Under Every Green Tree: Popular Religion in Sixth-Century Judah” and Francesca Stavrakopoulou, King Manasseh and Child Sacrifice: Biblical Distortions of Historical Realities.

 

[KingJ]

You said "God is disgusted at those that sacrifice their children."

Nope - not really if you read the Bible that is, for instance Just like Abraham who portrayed no moral abhorrence at Gods command in sacrificing Isaac, Micah who lived centuries later wanted to sacrifice his firstborn without any moral abhorrence whatsoever. Why? KingK Why?

Micah 6:6-8 Where with shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Or shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

''Shall I'' is not ''God wills me to''. If Micah 'googled' the ten commandments he would have found the sixth is ''Thou shalt not murder'.

And not to be accused falsely of cheery picking lets see another event in scripture where the King of Moab sacrificed his son which caused the Israelites to retreat in defeat. Moab’s sacrifice created a great “wrath” which was an external force to the warriors in the story, indicating that his sacrifice caused some false god to act on behalf of Moab. The Israelite knew full well that if someone sacrifices his son to any god fearful things will happen.

2 Kings 3:26-27 “When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall.”[/BIBLE]

The overwhelming consensus of unbiased scholarly thought over the last decade concludes that child sacrifice was a part and parcel of ancient Israelite religion to large segments of Israelite communities at various periods. You need to read an unbiased scholarly book on ancient Israel. Like “Under Every Green Tree: Popular Religion in Sixth-Century Judah” and Francesca Stavrakopoulou, King Manasseh and Child Sacrifice: Biblical Distortions of Historical Realities.

Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god.

Yahweh was not / is not a 'fish god'.

 

[KingJ]

The overwhelming consensus of unbiased scholarly

Unbiased

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

@KingJ

We left off discussing Micah 6:6-8, where the divinely inspired prophet wrote these words: “ With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow down before God on high. Should I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Does the Lord want a thousand rams, with myriads of rivers of fat? Should I give by oldest son as a sin offering, the fruit of my belly as a sin offering for my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”


What Micah was doing is trying to find the very best ways to please God, so he mentioned what he considered the best things. And it says he considered sacrificing a child along with the other sacrifices God demanded in order to please him. The fact that God tells Micah he only wants justice and mercy does not undercut that Micah believed child sacrifice was acceptable to God, for it’s listed among other types of sacrifices that ARE pleasing to God. Nor does it undercut that God demanded child sacrifices ( Exodus 22:29; Ezekiel 20: 25-26). God certainly didn’t condemn Jepthah when he sacrificed his daughter to God ( Judges 11:39). And God requested a child sacrifice of Abraham with no condemnation whatsoever against the practice. (He was not just testing Abraham- that is rather lame) God didn't even chastise Micah for suggesting such a thing, which is what you or I would do. Do you see now why God’s ways are not our ways? You are taking a caviller approach to this topic.

God only condemned child sacrifice when it was done to foreign gods: How do we know - look at how upset God becomes in Jeremiah 19: "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; 6 therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter. 7 And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at; every one who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. 9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’


God will make them eat the flesh of their children and neighbours! God was so angry that all were to be slaughtered. Not only the amount that were originally sacrificed. As a result many more children will die and/or be fatherless, and/or be eaten. Why did God not just send them a prophet to rebuke them "Thou shalt not sacrifice or kill any man woman or child to me," and say it as often as needed without also allowing the conflicting messages and lack of condemnation for such practices elsewhere in the Bible, like asking Abraham to do it and not also condemn such a practice, or like letting Jepthah do it without sending a prophet to him to tell him it’s forbidden? Because God's way are not ours!!!!!

 

[Dovegiven]

@KingJ

We left off discussing Micah 6:6-8, where the divinely inspired prophet wrote these words: “ With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow down before God on high. Should I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Does the Lord want a thousand rams, with myriads of rivers of fat? Should I give by oldest son as a sin offering, the fruit of my belly as a sin offering for my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”


What Micah was doing is trying to find the very best ways to please God, so he mentioned what he considered the best things. And it says he considered sacrificing a child along with the other sacrifices God demanded in order to please him. The fact that God tells Micah he only wants justice and mercy does not undercut that Micah believed child sacrifice was acceptable to God, for it’s listed among other types of sacrifices that ARE pleasing to God. Nor does it undercut that God demanded child sacrifices ( Exodus 22:29; Ezekiel 20: 25-26). God certainly didn’t condemn Jepthah when he sacrificed his daughter to God ( Judges 11:39). And God requested a child sacrifice of Abraham with no condemnation whatsoever against the practice. (He was not just testing Abraham- that is rather lame) God didn't even chastise Micah for suggesting such a thing, which is what you or I would do. Do you see now why God’s ways are not our ways? You are taking a caviller approach to this topic.

God only condemned child sacrifice when it was done to foreign gods: How do we know - look at how upset God becomes in Jeremiah 19: "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; 6 therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter. 7 And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at; every one who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. 9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’


God will make them eat the flesh of their children and neighbours! God was so angry that all were to be slaughtered. Not only the amount that were originally sacrificed. As a result many more children will die and/or be fatherless, and/or be eaten. Why did God not just send them a prophet to rebuke them "Thou shalt not sacrifice or kill any man woman or child to me," and say it as often as needed without also allowing the conflicting messages and lack of condemnation for such practices elsewhere in the Bible, like asking Abraham to do it and not also condemn such a practice, or like letting Jepthah do it without sending a prophet to him to tell him it’s forbidden? Because God's way are not ours!!!!!

First, Abraham responded to the command to offer his son as a burnt offering, but got the revelation in
Genesis 22:8 (KJV)
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Once at that moment God did supply the ram in Isaac's place, a type of Christ's substitution for us. The only other incident of God looking for that was for Jesus to do it. He could not possibly let Isaac stand for the remission of the world's sins. What God wanted proved was Abraham's willingness to serve Him without question. Would you?

Next, that prophecy was not about God making cannibals out of Israel, but that He would let them fall to that state of desperation if they refused to repent of their sins. It wasn't necessary for God to give a law 430 years after Abraham condemning cannibalism. It's always been a curse for sin, like starvation and being slaughtered by enemy armies, or dying alone in a grabage box due to overdose of drugs. Sins has it's costs.

As for child sacrifice to God or for any other purpose, here's what God told the wise king.
Proverbs 6:15-19 (KJV)
15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Who do you serve, VVH? Just want to confirm what I suspect.

 

[Dovegiven]

It's a tragedy that a Christian can't seem to know God's higher ways, but apparently remains stuck in his old low ways. It ought not be that way. He has made it possible to come up to His ways, escaping the low carnal ways. It's all through the Bible, His ways revealed, but most just don't catch on very well. Israel couldn't, but we know why. So what excuse does a Christian have? Check out Ezekiel 18 before diving off.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Unbiased

We left off discussing Micah 6:6-8, where the divinely inspired prophet wrote these words: “ With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow down before God on high. Should I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Does the Lord want a thousand rams, with myriads of rivers of fat? Should I give by oldest son as a sin offering, the fruit of my belly as a sin offering for my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”


What Micah was doing is trying to find the very best ways to please God, so he mentioned what he considered the best things. And it says he considered sacrificing a child along with the other sacrifices God demanded in order to please him. The fact that God tells Micah he only wants justice and mercy does not undercut that Micah believed child sacrifice was acceptable to God, for it’s listed among other types of sacrifices that ARE pleasing to God. Nor does it undercut that God demanded child sacrifices ( Exodus 22:29; Ezekiel 20: 25-26). God certainly didn’t condemn Jepthah when he sacrificed his daughter to God ( Judges 11:39). And God requested a child sacrifice of Abraham with no condemnation whatsoever against the practice. (He was not just testing Abraham- that is rather lame) God didn't even chastise Micah for suggesting such a thing, which is what you or I would do. Do you see now why God’s ways are not our ways? You are taking a caviller approach to this topic.

God only condemned child sacrifice when it was done to foreign gods: How do we know - look at how upset God becomes in Jeremiah 19: "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; 6 therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter. 7 And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at; every one who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. 9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’

God will make them eat the flesh of their children and neighbours! God was so angry that all were to be slaughtered. Not only the amount that were originally sacrificed. As a result many more children will die and/or be fatherless, and/or be eaten. Why did God not just send them a prophet to rebuke them "Thou shalt not sacrifice or kill any man woman or child to me," and say it as often as needed without also allowing the conflicting messages and lack of condemnation for such practices elsewhere in the Bible, like asking Abraham to do it and not also condemn such a practice, or like letting Jepthah do it without sending a prophet to him to tell him it’s forbidden? Because God's way are not ours!!!!!

 

[Dovegiven]

We left off discussing Micah 6:6-8, where the divinely inspired prophet wrote these words: “ With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow down before God on high. Should I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Does the Lord want a thousand rams, with myriads of rivers of fat? Should I give by oldest son as a sin offering, the fruit of my belly as a sin offering for my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”


What Micah was doing is trying to find the very best ways to please God, so he mentioned what he considered the best things. And it says he considered sacrificing a child along with the other sacrifices God demanded in order to please him. The fact that God tells Micah he only wants justice and mercy does not undercut that Micah believed child sacrifice was acceptable to God, for it’s listed among other types of sacrifices that ARE pleasing to God. Nor does it undercut that God demanded child sacrifices ( Exodus 22:29; Ezekiel 20: 25-26). God certainly didn’t condemn Jepthah when he sacrificed his daughter to God ( Judges 11:39). And God requested a child sacrifice of Abraham with no condemnation whatsoever against the practice. (He was not just testing Abraham- that is rather lame) God didn't even chastise Micah for suggesting such a thing, which is what you or I would do. Do you see now why God’s ways are not our ways? You are taking a caviller approach to this topic.

God only condemned child sacrifice when it was done to foreign gods: How do we know - look at how upset God becomes in Jeremiah 19: "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; 6 therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter. 7 And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at; every one who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. 9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’

God will make them eat the flesh of their children and neighbours! God was so angry that all were to be slaughtered. Not only the amount that were originally sacrificed. As a result many more children will die and/or be fatherless, and/or be eaten. Why did God not just send them a prophet to rebuke them "Thou shalt not sacrifice or kill any man woman or child to me," and say it as often as needed without also allowing the conflicting messages and lack of condemnation for such practices elsewhere in the Bible, like asking Abraham to do it and not also condemn such a practice, or like letting Jepthah do it without sending a prophet to him to tell him it’s forbidden? Because God's way are not ours!!!!!

The message to Judah was that because they had turned to spiritual idolatry, even to building altars to Baal for sacrifice of their sons. God would let them suffer the same curses shared by the enemies of Israel who did the same abominations. He will allow people to suffer unimaginable troubles over a refusal to repent. Curse is built in to the Law. It wasn't necessary for God to actually make people suffer, but voided the covenant blessings between Israel/Judah and God, which allowed back in the curses of enemies killing and enslaving, loss of food supplies as formerly promised, the total absence of His prosperity, leaving only desperation. Judah already knew the shedding of innocent blood was an abomination to God. So, He sent the prophet to declare the judgment on Judah, as happened to the other tribes of Israel.

Look, that prophecy was not an endorsement by God to sacrifice children to Baal. That's what Judah had begun doing, instead of offering lambs to God.
Your post is sordid false teaching of the highest degree. Readers around the world.....heads up.....pay attention.