Has tongues ceased today?

[spirit1st]

Gods perfect will is? To teach each of HIS childern!
It appears to me? People seem to want to follow other people???


1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Once we decide, to follow some other guy or teacher?
We can go no farther than that person goes in TRUTH?


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

You see another thing?
Once we reject a truth? We cannot receive it!

And sadly? More reject the things of GOD, Than accept them as TRUTH!

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
the point being? We accept the scriptures as a child would , without doubting!

 

[Stylez4Christ]

Gods perfect will is? To teach each of HIS childern!
It appears to me? People seem to want to follow other people???


1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Once we decide, to follow some other guy or teacher?
We can go no farther than that person goes in TRUTH?


Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

You see another thing?
Once we reject a truth? We cannot receive it!

And sadly? More reject the things of GOD, Than accept them as TRUTH!

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
the point being? We accept the scriptures as a child would , without doubting!

Thats the scripture rate there 1Co 2:13!!!

 

[spirit1st]

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Thats a nice scripture

 

[jiggyfly]

I would like to know your debate on this sermon by Denis Lyle. I know you guys just want me to say what I get from the scriptures, but lets look what other people that have studied the scriptures think also. If you guys want to learn, we have to debate by the scriptures not on personal experiences.

Audio Sermon:

Is the gift of tongues for today?

Romans 10:8
"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" KJV

No thanks, I'll just wait for your revelation. I have studied and heard plenty of teachings that proclaim that tongues have ceased and frankly I prefer text not audio.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

No thanks, I'll just wait for your revelation. I have studied and heard plenty of teachings that proclaim that tongues have ceased and frankly I prefer text not audio.

Well, we got to becareful to what is online and is a post to be a revelation thing not a copy cat thing lol hahahahahaha.....

 

[SpiritLedEd]

1 Cor 13:10 refers to development of the believers (as Chad said), not the development of the scriptures. This is one of many places in Scripture where the point the writer is making cannot be contained in one verse.

Paul's point is spread over three verses: "10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish things behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face. Now, I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." ( 1 Cor 13:10-12).

You lifted verse ten out of its proper context and twisted it. To say that "perfect" in that verse has reference to the completed canon of Scripture is bogus.


SLE

 

[Cody]

I believe in the later books of the New Testament it is show how gifts faded away. Consider how Paul left Trophimus at Miletum when he was sick.

2 Timothy 4:20
"Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." KJV

He also told Timothy to drink a little wine for his sickness. Why didn't he just heal him?

1 Timothy 5:23
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." KJV

I'm not denying God's power. I believe everything in the Bible. No doubt people spoke in tongues. I believe that because the Bible tells me it happened. God's word is sufficient for me. I don't need signs like the unbelieving Jews. It's like God told Paul, "My grace is sufficient". Telling someone they're not spiritual enough because they don't do these signs is wrong. Even back then, not everyone had signs that believed. Today we either accept God's word or we don't.

 

[jiggyfly]

I believe in the later books of the New Testament it is show how gifts faded away. Consider how Paul left Trophimus at Miletum when he was sick.

2 Timothy 4:20
"Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." KJV

He also told Timothy to drink a little wine for his sickness. Why didn't he just heal him?

1 Timothy 5:23
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." KJV

I'm not denying God's power. I believe everything in the Bible. No doubt people spoke in tongues. I believe that because the Bible tells me it happened. God's word is sufficient for me. I don't need signs like the unbelieving Jews. It's like God told Paul, "My grace is sufficient". Telling someone they're not spiritual enough because they don't do these signs is wrong. Even back then, not everyone had signs that believed. Today we either accept God's word or we don't.

Cody, so let me get this straight now. Are you saying that all the spiritual gifts have ceased or just some and if just some please clarify which ones have ceased?

Why didn't Jesus heal the lame man @ gate beautiful?

What about Eutychus @ Troas?

Using God's word can you show us when the spiritual gifts ceased?

If these gifts have ceased, do they ever come back?

Please answer these questions Cody to help clarify what you believe and why, so we can continue. Thanks and God bless

 

[Cody]

The only gift I'm sure about is tongues because of the Greek word when it says they will cease and how it talks about the Jews needing a sign.

 

[jiggyfly]

The only gift I'm sure about is tongues because of the Greek word when it says they will cease and how it talks about the Jews needing a sign.

Ok so when did it cease ?

So what does Paul being sick and instructing Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach's sake have to do with tongues?

Doesn't the scripture you are refering to also include prophecy and word of knowledge?

Please try to give more detail so we can work through this in a reasonable time.

 

[Cody]

Isaiah 28:11
"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." KJV

Tongues were a sign of the judgment of Israel. (Also read verse 17)

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." KJV

Notice that it says Charity will never fail. Prophecies will fail, tongues will cease and knowledge will vanish away. Why do they use a different word for tongues? They use cease which means that it will end, in and of itself. If we interpret perfect as Jesus, then prophecies and knowledge will fail and vanish away when He comes back. But notice it separates tongues using a different word. Praise God, love will never fail.

Here is some text for you Jiggyfly, especially read the part where it talks about Luke 19:41-44 and Mark 12:7-10. Read the connection those 2 places have with Isaiah 28:16. Tell me what your thoughts are on this, brother. Lets keep on talking about this with love. God Bless you

Text:
When Tongues Ceased According to the Bible

 

[jiggyfly]

Isaiah 28:11
"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." KJV

Tongues were a sign of the judgment of Israel. (Also read verse 17)

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." KJV

Notice that it says Charity will never fail. Prophecies will fail, tongues will cease and knowledge will vanish away. Why do they use a different word for tongues? They use cease which means that it will end, in and of itself. If we interpret perfect as Jesus, then prophecies and knowledge will fail and vanish away when He comes back. But notice it separates tongues using a different word. Praise God, love will never fail.

Here is some text for you Jiggyfly, especially read the part where it talks about Luke 19:41-44 and Mark 12:7-10. Read the connection those 2 places have with Isaiah 28:16. Tell me what your thoughts are on this, brother. Lets keep on talking about this with love. God Bless you

Text:
When Tongues Ceased According to the Bible

You haven't answered my questions yet. Please don't just post another link or find your answer from another website or teaching. I am waiting for you to share your revelation also.


1Corinthians 13:8-12
8*Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9*For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10*But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11* When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12*For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Now I have posted the scripture that you are using to say that tongues have ceased, so lets look closely at it. I posted it in the KJV for you.

Now I am not debating the fact that this text says that the gift of tongues will cease, that is very apparent, Paul also states that prophecy and knowledge will also cease at the same time. Where we disagree is the time at which they will or have ceased. I have tried since the beginning to get you to state how you think "when that which is perfect is come" means, and seeing as you haven't yet I will assume that you believe it to be speaking of the bible as we know it. This would be inline with the belefs of your denomination and the website links that you have posted in this thread and others.

So lets see if this fits within the context. So according to this context when the bible came all that was in part is done away with. The problem with this interpretation is when we come to verse 12, Paul states that at that moment his knowledge was incomplete and he and the Corinthians had limited understanding and would until they get a "bible" and then a miracle takes place and everyones knowledge and understanding is made complete.


Now there are a few kinks in this interpretation, first the bible as we know it (canonized 39 old testament books and 27 new testament books) didn't exist until the latter part of the fourth century (depending on what text is used, 365 AD - 382 AD). With that said, Paul and those he was writing to, were gone well before that, which would mean that there knowledge was never complete. Another thing to consider are the two prophets recorded in Revelation.

Revelation 11:1-3
1*And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2*But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3*And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


This is a big problem since prophecy has ceased with tongues unless you are a preterist.

There is more to cover but let's keep it simple and deal with them one or two at a time. So Cody do you still believe that Paul was refering to the bible when he said "when that which is perfect is come", if so please explain in more depth.

 

[Woz'umoya]

The point has been made before, but I think it is important to emphasise that at Pentecost (Acts 2:2) the gift of tongues was the gift to speak in an existing language without having learned that language.

The purpose was as a sign to the unbelieving Jews and to enable those Jews who came from various countries in the Middle East to hear the Gospel in their own language.
They were astonished to hear their own language being used and many believed as a result.

It has been suggested that at Pentecost the believers were speaking in their own language and the miracle occurred that foreigners could understand in their own languages. However, it seems that those Jews who could not understand any of the languages being spoken assumed the speakers were drunk. This seems to indicate that the speakers were not speaking in their own language (Aramaic or Hebrew), but had the gift of being able to speak in a foreign language.

The gift of tongues, it seems, was therefore a particular gift to enable the believers to preach the Gospel to people of a different language to enable those “foreigners” to hear the Word of God in their own language.

As far as when the gifts ceased is concerned, as we know, the last inspired writing was that of the Apostle John. After him there was no longer any inspired Scripture and the Word of God was complete.

It was not, of course, in one bound volume as we have it today. However, it is apparent that copies of the Apostles’ letters were widely circulated among Christian communities and so they would have had access to the complete Word of God through being able to read copies of the various letters that were distributed among the believers.

Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit, with accompanying Spirit gifts, was passed to believers in visible form like the tongues at Pentecost or by the laying on of hands by the Apostles (Acts 8:17,18). It was apparently not passed on by anyone else. So when the Apostles eventually died, there was no one to pass on the Holy Spirit gifts and it seems they ceased when all who had them eventually died.

The Apostle Paul makes the point that the gifts were temporary and would cease. It seems strange he would make this point if, in fact, the gifts were not going to cease for thousands of years.

Woz'Umoya

 

[Chad]

Who will explain what the tongues is that people are speaking today, especially those in this thread that said they speak tongues? Will you tell them they are not speaking tongues and continue saying it has ceased? What about the people speaking or praying in tongues that I've witnessed? Am I brainwashed and fooled or did I witness true gift of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Stylez4Christ]

Who will explain what the tongues is that people are speaking today, especially those in this thread that said they speak tongues? Will you tell them they are not speaking tongues and continue saying it has ceased? What about the people speaking or praying in tongues that I've witnessed? Am I brainwashed and fooled or did I witness true gift of the Holy Spirit?

I don't really fear about what you just said because is a mystery because I did look up the history of documents of speaking in tongues because I don’t believed tongues ever been stop when the apostle die because I believed that tongues been a generational thing because tongues has been strongly reported in 150 AD, 156-172AD, 175 AD, 230 AD, and then the orthodox church which um, we wonder what kind of orthodox church they talking about but never reported but I believed there were some unknown congregation that we may not ever heard of, but may have tongues also reported but lest look at more list reports, 340 AD, 390 AD, 475 - 1000 AD, 1100AD, 1300s AD, 1600, 1700, 1800, 1901, also in 1817 read document of a church in Germany where some was holding a Charismatic meeting!

“One such revival began with a Prussian Guards officer, Gustav von Below, in 1817. He and his brothers started holding charismatic meetings on his estates in Pomerania. A Lutheran commission sent to investigate was at first suspicious but found the phenomenon to be "of God." This led to a growth in charismatic meetings across Germany which quickly crossed the Atlantic during the great German migrations of the nineteenth century…..”

This is a mystery because how is it that odd that this maybe unknown….
Lest see, how in the world you have many people laying hand in the apostle day and spoke and tongues and I believed is like cell were multiplied .

“…….the day of Pentecost when a week after Jesus ascended into Heaven (Acts 1), there were 120 believers waiting for the promise of the Father, that is the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2:4, when the Holy Spirit came upon the believers they all spoke in tongues (other languages). That notwithstanding, the practice of speaking in tongues has been reported and documented throughout Christian History; however, the roots of the current movement date back no earlier than the late 1700's…..’’

This gift is not burn out…

I feel like that there is a powerful revelation to that scripture every time I read it!

Ephesians 4:1-13 KJV
1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[jiggyfly]

The point has been made before, but I think it is important to emphasise that at Pentecost (Acts 2:2) the gift of tongues was the gift to speak in an existing language without having learned that language.
The purpose was as a sign to the unbelieving Jews and to enable those Jews who came from various countries in the Middle East to hear the Gospel in their own language.
They were astonished to hear their own language being used and many believed as a result.

It has been suggested that at Pentecost the believers were speaking in their own language and the miracle occurred that foreigners could understand in their own languages. However, it seems that those Jews who could not understand any of the languages being spoken assumed the speakers were drunk. This seems to indicate that the speakers were not speaking in their own language (Aramaic or Hebrew), but had the gift of being able to speak in a foreign language.

The gift of tongues, it seems, was therefore a particular gift to enable the believers to preach the Gospel to people of a different language to enable those “foreigners” to hear the Word of God in their own language.

As far as when the gifts ceased is concerned, as we know, the last inspired writing was that of the Apostle John. After him there was no longer any inspired Scripture and the Word of God was complete.

It was not, of course, in one bound volume as we have it today. However, it is apparent that copies of the Apostles’ letters were widely circulated among Christian communities and so they would have had access to the complete Word of God through being able to read copies of the various letters that were distributed among the believers.

Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit, with accompanying Spirit gifts, was passed to believers in visible form like the tongues at Pentecost or by the laying on of hands by the Apostles (Acts 8:17,18). It was apparently not passed on by anyone else. So when the Apostles eventually died, there was no one to pass on the Holy Spirit gifts and it seems they ceased when all who had them eventually died.

The Apostle Paul makes the point that the gifts were temporary and would cease. It seems strange he would make this point if, in fact, the gifts were not going to cease for thousands of years.Woz'Umoya

If this is all tongues are then please explain how tongues strengthen one in the lord?????????????????????

The fact is that the gift of tongues has more than one purpose according to the scriptures. They fufilled prophecies, strengthen in the lord and build up your faith, they are also a personal intimate language with God the Father.

Paul also talk about Christ' return , didn't he? Well I think it has been thousands of years. Strange, no I think your line of reasoning and understanding are very limited, thats all.

 

[Cody]

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." KJV

Prophecies and knowledge will fail when the perfect has come. I believe its talking about Jesus there. Notice in verse 9, it just mentions those 2 and not tongues. Also notice it says tongues will cease.

Who here prays in tongues? Please give me some scripture that supports praying in tongues.

 

[Woz'umoya]

The way I understand it, Chad, is that the tongues described in the Bible were foreign languages and the gift was to be able to preach the Gospel to people in their own language without having learnt that language. Those who had the gift could spread the Gospel among unbelievers (especially Jews) whose own language wasn't Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. That seems to me to be different from the tongues spoken today.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Cody I pray in tongues when I do not know what to pray in my language. I pray in tongues as it builds me up. It is my spirit talking to God's spirit. I was told to keep praying that way when I attended a church that do not do it.

I think there have been plenty of scriptures showing the praying in tongues.

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose: