I don't believe a loving God would send people to hell.....

[Butch5]

What's often overlooked in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man are the verses that come just before it.

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. (Lk. 16:14-18 NKJ)

The Pharisees, hearing Jesus' previous parables derided Him. So, He turns His attention to them. First He chastises them for seeking justification before men. Then He says, the Law and the Prophets were until John. He said that to the Scribes and Pharisees. What He is essentially saying there is, you guys are done. Your reign is over. A change is coming. Essentially, the priesthood is over. Then He points back to Malachi when He accuses them of divorcing their wives. You need to read the whole book of Malachi (4 chapters). Remember this is the last book of the OT and it is the last communication Israel had with God until Christ came. Here is chapter 2, remember, Jesus gave the parable to the Scribes and Pharisees.

And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.
4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts.
13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment? (Mal. 2:1-17 KJV)

Here Malachi speaks of the corrupt priesthood. In the prophecy look at what God said of the priesthood, "and one shall take you away with it". Here God is speaking of taking away the Priesthood. That's exactly what happened in AD 70. Notice in verse 8 God says they have departed from the way, caused many to stumble and have corrupted the covenant with Levi. Consider what Jesus said to them in His day,

Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
4 "For God commanded, saying,`Honor your father and your mother'; and,`He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
5 "But you say,`Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"--
6 `then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
7 "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 `These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" (Matt. 15:1-9 NKJ)

and,

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matt. 23:15 KJV)

and,

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; (Matt. 26:59 KJV)

Notice in Verse 6 God said, "The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips". This speaks of the covenant with Levi. Levi is the head of the Levites, the tribe of the priesthood. Yet, look a them here in Jesus day. They are looking for people to bear false witness. They have corrupted the covenant with Levi.

All of this is leading up to the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. By saying whoever divorces his wife commits adultery, Jesus is pointing back to Malachi and this prophecy of the taking away of the priesthood. The Scribes and the Pharisees should have been very familiar with Malachi and should have seen the connection Jesus was making. From this background Jesus goes into the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. In this parable we see the taking away of the priesthood just like God said in Malachi 2:3

 

[rstrats]

Your question is not in Spirit and truth.
That is a sin.

Look, you accused me of being of the devil. I want to know what I posted for you to make such an accusation?

------------------
EDIT: @rstrats
the member has been banned so you will not get an answer.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Hi JIL,

Sure. I believe the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable. It's a parable about the coming destruction of the Priesthood in AD 70. Below is an overview that I wrote in another thread.

I would submit that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about the afterlife at all, but rather it is a judgment against those to whom Jesus was speaking, the leadership of Israel. Why would one think this is a parable about an afterlife? If that 's the case, does it mean that the rich go to hell and the poor get saved? Jesus didn't say the rich man was wicked, He just said he was rich. Jesus didn't say that Lazarus was righteous, just that he was a poor. What is here that would indicate that this is what happens to the righteous and the wicked?
The details of the parable give us an indication of what it means. We're told that the Rich Man was clothed in purple and fine linen. What does that mean? We see that the Rich Man is a Jew. Why? We're told that the Rich Man had 5 brothers, why? Why is the beggar named Lazarus? What is "Abraham's bosom:"? All of these details are indications of what the parable is about. This parable is drawn from several Old Testament passages. For instance, the Rich Man is said to be suffering torment in flames in Hades. However, Jesus indicated that Gehenna is where the wicked will go. In the Scriptures Hades is usually translated the grave, not a place of torment. The grave is where the body goes. The Rich Man was in Hades, this indicates his body. We know that dead people can't speak so we should consider that this is a parable.
So, what do the details mean? In Jesus' day Israel didn't have a king, however, the priesthood unofficially served that role. Purple was the color of royalty and the priests wore fine linen, this indicates that the Rich Man represents the priesthood. We're also told that the Rich Man had 5 brothers. Levi had 5 brothers. Levi is the head of the Levites which was the tribe of the Priesthood. Why is the beggar named Lazarus? Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Eleazar, which means, God Help. Who did God Help? Was it not Jesus? Wasn't the Father with Him and in Him. We're told that Lazarus was covered in sores. Jesus was covered in sores from the lashings. We're told that the dogs licked Lazarus' sores. In the Scriptures Gentiles are referred to as dogs by the Jews. So we have the Rich Man, the Jews, rejecting Lazarus while the dogs, the Gentiles, are accepting Him. Why is Lazarus in Abraham's bosom? Contrary to popular belief, Abraham's bosom is not a location somewhere in the Earth. Abraham's bosom is mentioned in another place in Scripture,
And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)
We see that being in Abraham's bosom means to be in an intimate relationship with Abraham. So, if Lazarus represents Jesus, what does it mean that He is in Abraham's bosom? It means that Abraham is embracing His long promised seed. The Jewish leadership thought that they were the seed of Abraham and heirs to the promises. While they were the physical seed of Abraham, they weren't the promised seed of Abraham. Jesus was the promised seed of Abraham. Paul tells us,
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal. 3:16 KJV)
So, in this parable we see the long awaited Seed of Abraham being embraced by Abraham, and the Jews, the physical seed, being cast off. They'er suffering in the flame. Since this is Hades and not Gehenna, what is the flame. We can see what it is from several Old Testament prophesies. In the Song of Moses, Moses wrote of what would happen to Israel in the latter days.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.1
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.1
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.1
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.1 (Deut. 32:18-25 KJV)
Paul quotes from this passage and applies it to his time so we know that's the time period. Notice verse 22. God says a fire is kindled in His anger and it will burn to the lowest Hades. This passage is about judgment in Christ's day. We know that that judgment came in A.D. 70. What we see here is that God's anger is the fire that burns in Hades. The Rich Man, the priesthood, is suffering God's anger in this parable. We have another prophesy of this same event. I'll post a few passages for the sake of space. It's best to read all of Isaiah 28 and 29 to get the full gist of this judgment.
Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!1
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:1 (Isa. 28:1-3 KJV)

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (Isa. 28:14-15 KJV)
God says Israel will be trodden underfoot. In verse 14 we see that God is addressing the leadership of Israel. However, notice what Israel has said, they had made a covenant with death and are in agreement with Hades. This is their agreement with Rome. He goes on,
Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.1
2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.1 (Isa. 29:1-4 KJV)
Notice here that God is going to lay siege against Ariel, Jerusalem. This is where the temple and the priesthood are. Remember, God said they were in a covenant with Hades. Hades is the grave. In verse 4 Gods says of the priesthood you shall be brought down, you shall speak out of the dust. The Rich Man who represents the priesthood was in Hades, the dust, speaking out of the ground. Notice also that God says their voice shall be one who has a familiar spirit. We can see this in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
I'm going to stop here as this post is getting long. There is a lot more I could say on this parable. I haven't even touched on Psalm 50 or the book of Malachi which also are mentioned in this parable. The point is that in this parable Jesus is weaving together several Old Testament prophesies that speak of the coming judgement of Israel. These priests who knew the Scriptures well should have seen this.

Here is another.

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is also a judgment of the priesthood and their destruction. Who was Jesus talking to? The Pharisees. The Rich Man was a Jew. The priesthood was Jewish. The Rich Man had five brothers. Levi, the tribe of the priesthood, had five brothers. The Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine linen. The priesthood ruled over Israel as both king and priest and wore purple and fine linen. The Rich Man fared sumptuously. The priesthood fared sumptuously.

What about Lazarus? Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Eleazar which means, God help. God helped Jesus. Lazarus had come to the Rich Man, a Jew. Jesus had come to the Jews. Lazarus was covered in sores. At the cross Jesus was covered in sores. The dogs licked Lazarus' sores. Lazarus was rejected by the Rich Man but accepted by the dogs. The Jews referred to the Gentiles as dogs. Jesus was rejected by the Jews but accepted by the Gentiles. Lazarus was carried away by angels. Jesus was carried away by angles. Lazarus was carried to his father Abraham. Jesus was carried to His father God. Lazarus was embraced by Abraham. Jesus was embraced by God. Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom. Is Abraham's bosom a place located down in the earth? There is nothing in Scripture to suggest any such thing. Abraham's bosom is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture though. Hagar was in Abraham's bosom, and she was alive, not dead.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

Hagar was in an intimate relationship with Abram. From this we see that being in Abraham's bosom means to be in a close relationship with Abraham. Lazarus was in the bosom of his father. Jesus was in the bosom of His father.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn. 1:18 KJV)

The Rich Man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers, that they would believe if one came from the dead. Abraham said no. He wouldn't send Lazarus back to the Jews. When Jesus resurrected He wouldn't show Himself to the Jews.

Thanks for replying, much appreciated in sharing the way you see it. So you mentioned much there,
I'll start with one thing for now, because you build upon it.

You stated that you believe it is a parable and you shared that the story says nothing about the rich man being wicked just that he was Rich and nothing about the Rich man being righteous.

So read with me"

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

So you are correct, the story does not mention righteousness or wickedness explicitly. You are correct about that. However this is my interpretation of what is mentioned. In the story we hear Abraham saying remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, When I read this it is not necessarily saying that money itself is "bad" but my understanding is that the love for money led him to a lifestyle in which he was living to gratify his flesh. Remember the Rich man that asked Jesus about eternal life, and Jesus told him to sell everything and we walked away sad. Jesus replied and told the disciples " It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

So my understanding is that it is a matter of the heart. The Rich man in the story with Jesus wasn't going to hell because he was rich, but because his love of money was his priority, not serving God. Likewise we see another rich man in the story you call a parable, and yet again Jesus is pointing to how when he was alive, his heart was just set on his money and living for this flesh. And we know that this gift of salvation is for those who are led by the Spirit and not the flesh.


Romans 8:5 & 13 tells us " Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. (13) For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. "

So one's relationship to money in the "parable (as you call it)" and the real life situation with Jesus and the man, is the outward expression of the inward condition of the heart, and therefore a way in which we can easily see if one is being led by the flesh.

 

[Butch5]

Thanks for replying, much appreciated in sharing the way you see it. So you mentioned much there,
I'll start with one thing for now, because you build upon it.

You stated that you believe it is a parable and you shared that the story says nothing about the rich man being wicked just that he was Rich and nothing about the Rich man being righteous.

So read with me"

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

So you are correct, the story does not mention righteousness or wickedness explicitly. You are correct about that. However this is my interpretation of what is mentioned. In the story we hear Abraham saying remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, When I read this it is not necessarily saying that money itself is "bad" but my understanding is that the love for money led him to a lifestyle in which he was living to gratify his flesh. Remember the Rich man that asked Jesus about eternal life, and Jesus told him to sell everything and we walked away sad. Jesus replied and told the disciples " It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

So my understanding is that it is a matter of the heart. The Rich man in the story with Jesus wasn't going to hell because he was rich, but because his love of money was his priority, not serving God. Likewise we see another rich man in the story you call a parable, and yet again Jesus is pointing to how when he was alive, his heart was just set on his money and living for this flesh. And we know that this gift of salvation is for those who are led by the Spirit and not the flesh.


Romans 8:5 & 13 tells us " Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. (13) For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. "

So one's relationship to money in the "parable (as you call it)" and the real life situation with Jesus and the man, is the outward expression of the inward condition of the heart, and therefore a way in which we can easily see if one is being led by the flesh.

HI JIL,

I don't see anything in there that speaks of the Rich Man's heart or the love of money. The parable says He was rich, lived in luxury, and fared sumptuously. All of the Kings of Israel lived the same. Some of them honored God and some didn't. The priesthood also lived that way. They had no work to do other than their service to God, yet they got a tenth. They fared well. They also served God. I agree with your conclusion regarding the spirit and the flesh, I just don't think that's what this parable is about.

Here's something else that comes to mind. At the time Jesus gave the parable, the Spirit had not yet been given. Paul had not yet written his words. So, those Pharisees wouldn't have had that information yet. All they had at that time was the Old Testament. That was their basis for understanding Jesus' words. So, it seems to me they would not have thought about living according to the flesh vs. the Spirit. All they knew was the Law.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

HI JIL,

I don't see anything in there that speaks of the Rich Man's heart or the love of money. The parable says He was rich, lived in luxury, and fared sumptuously. All of the Kings of Israel lived the same. Some of them honored God and some didn't. The priesthood also lived that way. They had no work to do other than their service to God, yet they got a tenth. They fared well. They also served God. I agree with your conclusion regarding the spirit and the flesh, I just don't think that's what this parable is about.

Here's something else that comes to mind. At the time Jesus gave the parable, the Spirit had not yet been given. Paul had not yet written his words. So, those Pharisees wouldn't have had that information yet. All they had at that time was the Old Testament. That was their basis for understanding Jesus' words. So, it seems to me they would not have thought about living according to the flesh vs. the Spirit. All they knew was the Law.

Once more you are correct, the Spirit had not been given [fully] at that time and Paul had not yet written his letters. However I didn't point out the Spirit to say that was what Jesus was telling them, but to show you and others those Spiritual Truths which we see when we read Scripture. God is eternal and knows all truth, we see and have things revealed to us in time.

So good point you bring up on other people being Rich, lets engage on that point. So I was thinking, why was Jesus telling this story (real story of a man or parable as some see it)
in the first place? You are wise and therefore you know that context is key. <<< checking context now>>>>

So as I just checked, I see that at the beginning of this chapter in Luke 16, Jesus is talking about
yet another Rich man (different story). I won't quote all but Luke 16:1-2 starts by saying:

" And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. "

The story goes on and in verses 10 to 11 we hear

" He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?"

Then Jesus adds again, in the SAME chapter (context is key)

"(13) No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon (money)"

Then after that is said and other things as well, Then Jesus goes on and continues and talks
again about another Rich man, this being the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

Are you able to see a theme in this chapter related to money? Or is the
fact that Jesus continues to mention Rich people and ends with a story about hell, coincidental
and unrelated?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

@Butch5 , I see it as a matter of stewardship.

The Rich who see their money as just for themselves and spend it to only gratify the flesh
will have to give account. Many, too many verses in the Bible that talk about how we will
have to give account on the day of judgment, how we handle money is part of that account,
and it also shows if we are truly saved as we confessed to be, our love for others and
love for God will be the evidence. And those who are spending their money on themselves alone
are showing what is truly in their hearts.

-- So that whole chapter of Luke 16 talks about
Riches and Stewardship and how God should be first. What would you say is the theme of that chapter if you feel that the story about Lazarus does not follow the normal progress of the revealed theme of money and riches and serving God and stewardship?

 

[B-A-C]

I'm not sure the reason "why" one went to hades, and the other went to Abraham's Bosom is really addressed or relevant,
I don't Jesus told this story to address the "why they went where they went". But rather there are two destinations.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I'm not sure the reason "why" one went to hades, and the other went to Abraham's Bosom is really addressed or relevant,
I don't Jesus told this story to address the "why they went where they went". But rather there are two destinations.

Good point to consider, the revelation that hell is real.

The story seems too vivid, that to mark it off as simply a parable, seems very dangerous for people to do.

 

[B-A-C]

The story seems too vivid, that to mark it off as simply a parable, seems very dangerous for people to do.

I don't believe it to be a parable either.

2 reasons, usually the Bible addresses it as a parable if it is a parable.
Second, usually in parables Jesus uses generic nouns like "a man" or "a Samaritan" or " a tree" but in the story of Lazarus he uses the specific name "Lazarus". Why would the name matter? But it's there for a reason.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5 , I see it as a matter of stewardship.

The Rich who see their money as just for themselves and spend it to only gratify the flesh
will have to give account. Many, too many verses in the Bible that talk about how we will
have to give account on the day of judgment, how we handle money is part of that account,
and it also shows if we are truly saved as we confessed to be, our love for others and
love for God will be the evidence. And those who are spending their money on themselves alone
are showing what is truly in their hearts.

-- So that whole chapter of Luke 16 talks about
Riches and Stewardship and how God should be first. What would you say is the theme of that chapter if you feel that the story about Lazarus does not follow the normal progress of the revealed theme of money and riches and serving God and stewardship?

Hi JIL,

I see the connection you're making. And, as a general principle I agree, However, I don't think that's the real point. Here's what I see that's different. The first parable in Luke 16 is spoken to the disciples, the second is addressed to the Scribes and Pharisees after they derided Him. I agree that both parables are about stewardship, I just don't think it's about money. The Scribes and Pharisees were the stewards of God's word and His people. It was their job to look after the people of God. That stewardship was about to be taken away from the Scribes and Pharisees. Notice what Jesus said in the first parable.

"And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. (Lk. 16:9 NKJ)

The stewards of God's people were about to lose the stewardship. It was coming in AD 70. Notice what else Jesus said,

10 "He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much.
11 "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (Lk. 16:10-11 NKJ)

Jesus uses money here in the parable, but the Scribes and Pharisees were about to lose their stewardship. They were unrighteous in ministering to God's people. Jesus said, if they were unrighteous in the mammon, the Law, who would commit the true riches to them, the Gospel. Basically, He's saying, you've failed in ministering to God's people therefore you won't be ministering the true riches, the Gospel, to God's people. It reminds me of the parable of the old and new wineskins. Then He says you can't serve two masters. The Scribes and Pharisees were doing that very thing. They were trying to serve man and God. After He finishes the first parable He talks about the Law and the prophets being until John. Again, another way to say, you guys are losing your stewardship. Then He accuses them of adultery, which I went into in another post. Also, in Malachi God accused the priesthood of robbing the who nation of Israel, again, they were unrighteous stewards. Then He goes into the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Again, the Rich man, had five brothers, Levi (priestly tribe) had five brothers. The Rich man was dress in purple and fine linen, the priests wore purple and fine linen. The Rich Man fared sumptuously, the priesthood fared sumptuously.

I think all of this comes together as an indictment against the leadership of Israel. They'd had God's word and His people for centuries and they were unrighteous. God was bringing something new on the scene, the Gospel, and He wasn't going to give it to this unrighteous leadership. He was going to give it to a new group. Jesus even says it to them, the Scribes and Pharisees.

"Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (Lk. 16:11 NKJ)

If you, Scribes and Pharisees, have not been faithful with the unrighteous mammon, who will commit the true riches to you? Obviously, not God, because He gave the true riches to another group of men.

 

[Butch5]

I'm not sure the reason "why" one went to hades, and the other went to Abraham's Bosom is really addressed or relevant,
I don't Jesus told this story to address the "why they went where they went". But rather there are two destinations.

Hi B-A-C,

Here's my understanding on that. If, as I submit, the Rich Man represents the Priesthood, and Lazarus represents Jesus, why did one go to the grave and one didn't. Remember what David Prophesied and Peter quoted?

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Ps. 16:9-10 KJV)

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(Acts 2:22-27 KJV)

Jesus' flesh did not see corruption in the grave. As I understand it, the Jews didn't consider one really dead until three days. So, Jesus' flesh didn't see corruption. I believe this is why we don't see Lazarus going to the grave. However, the Rich Man, the priesthood, did go to the gave. The parable says, the Rich Man died and was buried, so he was in the grave. Then Jesus said, being in Hades he lifted up his eyes. So, in this parable, Jesus had equated, 'being in Hades' with 'died and was buried'. They are the same thing. As we saw in the previous parable, the stewardship was being taken away from them. So, what does this represent? It says they are suffering in the flame. In Deut. 32 we see that God's anger will burn to the lowest Hades. So, they are suffering God anger. There's also a great gulf that prevents anyone from giving relief to the priesthood. I believe this gulf represents a period of time in which the priesthood will suffer or be disbanded as they were in AD 70. What is this time period? I believe it's what Paul calls, 'the times of the Gentiles'. It's a period of time where God had put the priesthood on hold, for lack of a better term, and is letting the Gentiles come in. When that time is up the priesthood will be established again for a short time for Israel. It will not effect the Gentiles, only Israel.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. (Rom. 11:25-28 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

I don't believe it to be a parable either.

2 reasons, usually the Bible addresses it as a parable if it is a parable.
Second, usually in parables Jesus uses generic nouns like "a man" or "a Samaritan" or " a tree" but in the story of Lazarus he uses the specific name "Lazarus". Why would the name matter? But it's there for a reason.

Good point to consider, the revelation that hell is real.

The story seems too vivid, that to mark it off as simply a parable, seems very dangerous for people to do.

Hi JIL,

I have a question that no one has been able to answer with an

Good point to consider, the revelation that hell is real.

The story seems too vivid, that to mark it off as simply a parable, seems very dangerous for people to do.

Hi JIL,

The reason I believe it's a parable is because to believe it is literal one must believe that the dead are alive. That statement in itself is a contradiction in terms. The dead are alive? If they are then they are not dead. I believe one of the main reasons people believe this is a real event is because they start with a false premise, that being that the dead are alive. Many hold to the "Immortal Soul" doctrine. As I said in the earlier post, this is not a Biblical doctrine, It comes from Greek Philosophy. Gen 2:7 tells us how man is made and what he consists of. As I pointed out in the other post, God said man is flesh. He told Adam that he was dust. If man is flesh and that flesh returns to the dust how can he be conscious of anything? One has to believe that man is something other than what God and the Bible say he is. If man is flesh and returns to the ground, then Jesus' story isn't a real event and as such is a story, a parable.

 

[Gracy Hansda]

I think about when people say the phrase "I don't believe a loving God would send people to hell".

The Holy Spirit laid on my heart that when people say that, what they are really saying is,

"I believe I should be free to do what every I want to do and I should be free from the
consequences of my actions, and if there is a God of Justice who will hold me accountable for
what I choose to do, then I want nothing with that God."

The person asking this question should know that God is a God of justice too along with God of love.. And imagine a scenario:
A rapist raped a girl.. and the case went to a court.. What would the good judge do!? What if the judge don't punish the rapist and say u r free!??..I think the whole court room will be confused.. I believe the most fitting is that, the judge punishing the rapist..
Again,
"If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."
2 Timothy 2:12-13

God Loves us surely.. That's why He sent His one and only Son for us to be saved.. Hell was never destined for us, it was total for Satan but then if a person sinning even after knowing is denying God, so will God do as said... And if He do not punish the wrong how will He perfect His LOVE for the one who did not deny Him!..
HE IS FAITHFUL TILL THE END..

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Hi JIL,

I see the connection you're making. And, as a general principle I agree, However, I don't think that's the real point. Here's what I see that's different. The first parable in Luke 16 is spoken to the disciples, the second is addressed to the Scribes and Pharisees after they derided Him. I agree that both parables are about stewardship, I just don't think it's about money. The Scribes and Pharisees were the stewards of God's word and His people. It was their job to look after the people of God. That stewardship was about to be taken away from the Scribes and Pharisees. Notice what Jesus said in the first parable.

"And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. (Lk. 16:9 NKJ)

The stewards of God's people were about to lose the stewardship. It was coming in AD 70. Notice what else Jesus said,

10 "He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much.
11 "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (Lk. 16:10-11 NKJ)

Jesus uses money here in the parable, but the Scribes and Pharisees were about to lose their stewardship. They were unrighteous in ministering to God's people. Jesus said, if they were unrighteous in the mammon, the Law, who would commit the true riches to them, the Gospel. Basically, He's saying, you've failed in ministering to God's people therefore you won't be ministering the true riches, the Gospel, to God's people. It reminds me of the parable of the old and new wineskins. Then He says you can't serve two masters. The Scribes and Pharisees were doing that very thing. They were trying to serve man and God. After He finishes the first parable He talks about the Law and the prophets being until John. Again, another way to say, you guys are losing your stewardship. Then He accuses them of adultery, which I went into in another post. Also, in Malachi God accused the priesthood of robbing the who nation of Israel, again, they were unrighteous stewards. Then He goes into the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. Again, the Rich man, had five brothers, Levi (priestly tribe) had five brothers. The Rich man was dress in purple and fine linen, the priests wore purple and fine linen. The Rich Man fared sumptuously, the priesthood fared sumptuously.

I think all of this comes together as an indictment against the leadership of Israel. They'd had God's word and His people for centuries and they were unrighteous. God was bringing something new on the scene, the Gospel, and He wasn't going to give it to this unrighteous leadership. He was going to give it to a new group. Jesus even says it to them, the Scribes and Pharisees.

"Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (Lk. 16:11 NKJ)

If you, Scribes and Pharisees, have not been faithful with the unrighteous mammon, who will commit the true riches to you? Obviously, not God, because He gave the true riches to another group of men.

Thanks for sharing your possible on the topic, nice discussing it with you. Stay Blessed.
It seems we at least agree on the Stewardship aspect of the chapter, Amen.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Hi JIL,

I have a question that no one has been able to answer with an

Hi JIL,

The reason I believe it's a parable is because to believe it is literal one must believe that the dead are alive. That statement in itself is a contradiction in terms. The dead are alive? If they are then they are not dead. I believe one of the main reasons people believe this is a real event is because they start with a false premise, that being that the dead are alive. Many hold to the "Immortal Soul" doctrine. As I said in the earlier post, this is not a Biblical doctrine, It comes from Greek Philosophy. Gen 2:7 tells us how man is made and what he consists of. As I pointed out in the other post, God said man is flesh. He told Adam that he was dust. If man is flesh and that flesh returns to the dust how can he be conscious of anything? One has to believe that man is something other than what God and the Bible say he is. If man is flesh and returns to the ground, then Jesus' story isn't a real event and as such is a story, a parable.

Thanks for the question.

My understanding is that man is a living soul, the soul being the merger of the spirit and the body.
There is physical death and spiritual death.

Death means separation. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is when our souls are separated from God's presence. It is the soul that
gives our body life, and God gives life to our Spirit.

Genesis 2:7 "
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.'

Dust is the body, the breath of God is the Spirit, living being is the soul.

Body is world consciousness, Spirit is God consciousness, Soul (mind and emotions) is self consciousness.

Think of this analogy of a light bulb.

The light bulb is there, but when electricity flows through it, it gives off light.
The light does not exist absent from the electricity flowing through the physical light bulb.
Similarly our body is dead (in this world) without the spirit. And when the Spirit (electricity-energy) comes into the body (light bulb) , we are aware of ourselves and our soul is present (light which radiates from the light bulb. Just close your eyes and picture that for a moment, and see the metaphor I'm trying to paint, even if you disagree with it, just picture it.

Electricity flows into the lightbulb giving off light.
God's spirit is breathed into man's body making him a living soul.

 

[B-A-C]

to believe it is literal one must believe that the dead are alive. That statement in itself is a contradiction in terms. The dead are alive? If they are then they are not dead. I believe one of the main reasons people believe this is a real event is because they start with a false premise, that being that the dead are alive. Many hold to the "Immortal Soul" doctrine. As I said in the earlier post, this is not a Biblical doctrine, It comes from Greek Philosophy.

The whole premise of Christianity is built on the immortal soul. If there is no resurrection, then our faith is in vain, and we have all been lying about God.

1Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
1Cor 15:15; Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
1Cor 15:18; Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1Cor 15:19; If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

If Jesus is still dead, then Christianity is a false religion.

1Cor 15:35; But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”
1Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

1Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

If this life is all there is, why even bother?

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?”
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

This is Jesus Himself teaching about eternal life, that's not Greek Philosophy, that's Jesus.

Matt 19:29; “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.

Matt 25:46; “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

John 3:15; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16; “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

This phrase "eternal life" is in the New testament over 40 times. That isn't Greek Philosophy, that's the Bible.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The whole premise of Christianity is built on the immortal soul. If there is no resurrection, then our faith is in vain, and we have all been lying about God.

1Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
1Cor 15:15; Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
1Cor 15:18; Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1Cor 15:19; If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

If Jesus is still dead, then Christianity is a false religion.

1Cor 15:35; But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”
1Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

1Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

If this life is all there is, why even bother?

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?”
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

This is Jesus Himself teaching about eternal life, that's not Greek Philosophy, that's Jesus.

Matt 19:29; “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.

Matt 25:46; “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

John 3:15; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16; “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

This phrase "eternal life" is in the New testament over 40 times. That isn't Greek Philosophy, that's the Bible.

Wow beautifully said.

One thing I really like about your post and the mature ones in this community is that they back their
words with much scripture. Amen.

 

[B-A-C]

Psa 22:29; All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship, All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.

Those who have dust (have gone down to the dust) will still bow before God one day. Even those "under the earth".

Php 2:10; so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11; and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Eccl 12:7; then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

John 5:25; “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
John 5:26; “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
John 5:27; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28; “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[B-A-C]

Mat_19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Mat_19:29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
Mat_25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Mar_10:17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mar_10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luk_10:25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luk_18:18 A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luk_18:30 who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."
Joh_3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
Joh_3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Joh_4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
Joh_5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Joh_5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Joh_6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
Joh_6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
Joh_6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Joh_6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh_6:68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Joh_12:50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
Joh_17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
Joh_17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Act_13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act_13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom_5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Gal_6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
1Ti_1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
Tit_1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,
Tit_3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Jn_1:2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
1Jn_2:25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Jud_1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
41 verses found, 41 matches

 

[Beetow]

I believe God is just as loving & kind-hearted as the Bible thumpers say He is, and
therein is something to think about because if God is an intelligent, mature adult
(so to speak) who's never petty, nor capricious, nor biased, nor fickle, nor
impulsive, nor unreasonable, and derives no sick kind of pleasure in causing people
harm; then He must be just as stuck with Hell and can't make it go away with any
more ease than we can.

For reasons I have yet to even guess, Hell is unavoidable even for a loving,
omnipotent God because He's obligated to comply with the right thing to do; i.e. Hell
has to be utilized for punishment in order to satisfy a level of absolute justice that
our limited little minds may never be able to fully grasp.

NOTE: The human mind is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue;
and not even all three of those pounds are utilized for cognitive functions; plus 60%
of it consists of fat. Is it any mystery then why we're unable to make any sense out of this?
_