Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?

[KingJ]

We utterly fail and God is a liar if the wicked are not punished.

And what is your judgement of a very wicked person? A day in a brazen bull? A week? A month? A year? Thousand years? Million years? Billion years? Trillion years? Centillion?

I propose that every person on this planet who is sane will not approve of a minute in a brazen bull. Christians who ignore scripture on how God defines Himself, read the word fire and lend their ears more to books written by some heathens with so much darkness in them who had a bad dream.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ, you need to quit grabbing articles off the internet and treating them equal to the Bible. Stick with the Bible.

How is the analogy to a brazen bull unrelated to your view of people burning in fire?

 

[KingJ]

I don't find a story of an ancient Grecian execution style apropos to deal with plain scriptures. Seeing you use text enhancements too (italics) why take those personally? It takes enhancement for some folks to be sure to find a part they apparently don't believe is there, or they disagree with Jesus and put blinders on when those words appear.

There is extreme irony to 'blinders'. God says we know good and evil Gen 3:22, God says He is good Psalm 136:1...….some are ok with God being more wicked then the most wicked people ever to inhabit the earth.

Back to topic. God is going to eternally incinerate all the doomed in the Lake of Fire, yet their worm won't die.

Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

It might be that a horrid persistent mass of eternal red maggots (worms) will feed on them in that fire, yet not consume them.
That's a pit view of the suffering in the Lake of Fire that will be left for viewing for ever, a reminder not to even think of sin, for folks coming and going from worship.
Please explain that to VVH.

I can understand why many believe in annihilation. It is not the worst belief. It is certainly better then believing God will torture someone for eternity.

In Isaiah 66:23 and 24, note the ''all flesh'' in vs 23. I read this as a time in the millennium. There is no flesh in heaven. We have resurrected bodies. They will see all the carcasses of those who died to God's plagues in the tribulation. A human is soul, spirit and flesh. Where is the soul and spirit? There is no scripture that says God annihilates a spirit.

Then I have three reasons I don't accept annihilation.

1. It is tyrannical rule. Accept me or die. Good luck finding people who actually love you. It is implying God is wicked and no true free will exists. You will never win a free will argument with this belief.

2. Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

3. Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

By the way, where does it say God wants a bride?

1. He made us and 2. We are called the bride of Christ. 2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. Rev 19:7 For the marriage of the Lamb is come and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- I Do recall that in Genesis God specifically told Adam and Eve to NOT eat fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He knew what would happen if they Did. But they did Not listen to God -- did Not follow His directions. If they Had obeyed God, the rest of us would Not have been born with the propensity For sinning. That means that some one might only tell a little white lie -- and some will be an axe murderer. A lie is Still sin. God DOES know what the human heart is capable of doing. We see the affects of That in the news every day. And the Jewish holocost is a horrible example of the terrible things that people Are capable of doing to each other. Many other examples in history since then.

You mention Psalm 136:1 and then say that some people are okay with -- well -- your next comment makes no sense in 'this' context. I'm not even going to repeat what you typed.

The Only people that God is going to torture for all eternity are satan, the beast and the false prophet. They have been purposely misleading people Away from God/ heaven. God has provided a great way for the rest of us to be with Him / Heaven. I can't imagine why Anyone would Want to risk ending up in the lake of fire and brimstone with Those three. Especially for eternity.

Ya, annihilation Would be better. Only suffer for a short time and have it be over with. But -- that's Not what Scripture says. We need to keep with Scripture.
But annihilation isn't Scriptural -- so why spend your time messing with that misconception.
The thing is -- it IS God's way or end up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

I didn't know anyone was Trying to 'win an argument' regarding free will -- except maybe You. You don't accept the fact that we Do have free will -- either accept or reject Christ -- only God Does know who will or who won't.

God has provided salvation for everyone. He gave His Son for us. And His Son died for us / our sins/ and rose back up from the dead -- For Us.


@ Dovegiven -- how do we know that God Wants a Bride ? Because back in Genesis , God created Adam first and then Eve to be his helper. God put them together and thus, created the first family. Eve became the bride of Adam. And, they, in turn were able to have children together. Marriage between a man and a woman -- created by God -- is meant to be a picture of Christ and the Church. The Church being the Bride of Christ. In Christian marriage -- the only real kind of marriage -- the husband is to love, care for his wife. Christ loves, cares for His people -- the Church. All born-again believers are the Bride of Christ / the Church. In heaven -- when the rapture of the Church takes place. The Church / the Bride will be united with Christ. The marriage super of the Lamb.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJThe Only people that God is going to torture for all eternity are satan, the beast and the false prophet.

Interesting that you believe this. I never knew this was your belief. I still just don't agree Sue. God does not torture. Torture is wicked. Whether it be 1 minute or eye for an eye. What makes God different from them if He tortures?

 

[Sue D.]

KingJ -- Look at Revelation 20:10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur , where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They will be tortured day and night for ever and ever. "

It's God's Word not mine. And I do believe God's Word. Sounds like You Don't. It's not like God is going to be standing over them holding them down in that lake of burning sulfur. That would be torture. It IS their negative consequence for their actions.

 

[Sue D.]

And what is your judgement of a very wicked person? A day in a brazen bull? A week? A month? A year? Thousand years? Million years? Billion years? Trillion years? Centillion?

I propose that every person on this planet who is sane will not approve of a minute in a brazen bull. Christians who ignore scripture on how God defines Himself, read the word fire and lend their ears more to books written by some heathens with so much darkness in them who had a bad dream.

Where does the 'brazen bull' thing come from? Are you referring to the Trojan Horse from the Old Testament?

 

[Sue D.]

What are you insinuating with your bold and underlining? Eternal punishment is eternal burning in fire? Like a brazen bull?

Eternal fire and punishment is eternal separation. That is the punishment. The wicked pedophile who does not want to repent, wants to be with children. He will weep and gnash his teeth when he grasps he is not Luke 13:28 and that he is in hell for eternity because he is sold out to his love of sin John 3:19. God is not a mental case that has no ability to dish out fitting punishments for crimes. I like how Job says Job 34:17 ''Shall one who hates justice rule ''. It just shocks me that so many Christians are ok with wicked justice. God is good Psalm 136:1 and tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44. Many that go to hell did just not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18. They are not all as wicked as the next. Rom 2:6 Each shall be rewarded according to what they have done. Luke 13:28 They weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see God and the prophets. That is their fire.

Brazen bull - Wikipedia Stories allege after finishing construction on the execution device, Perillos said to Phalaris: "His screams will come to you through the pipes as the tenderest, most pathetic, most melodious of bellowings." Perillos believed he would receive a reward for his invention. Instead, Phalaris, who was disgusted by these words, ordered its horn sound system to be tested by Perillos himself, tricking him into getting in the bull. When Perillos entered, he was immediately locked in and the fire was set, so that Phalaris could hear the sound of his screams. Before Perillos could die, Phalaris opened the door and took him away. After freeing him from the bull, Phalaris is then said to have taken Perillos to the top of a hill and thrown him off, killing him. Phalaris himself is claimed to have been killed in the brazen bull when he was overthrown by Telemachus, the ancestor of Theron.

Our God does this? Our God who says He is just and wants a bride does this? It is the handiwork of a devil!!! Let's stop miss-representing God. A Christian has one job, properly represent God to the unsaved. We utterly fail if we insinuate God tortures His enemy. Surely if we support such we deserve to be thrown into this brazen bull just like its inventor? Many have a sick and shocking take on God and Christianity.

Okay -- This is your brazen bull -- part of mythology -- has nothing to do with Scripture.

 

[KingJ]

Okay -- This is your brazen bull -- part of mythology -- has nothing to do with Scripture.

I am facepalming myself to so many posts here. It is as though so many of us get tunnel vision and lose all rational thought.

Sue, the brazen bull is a torture device that would cook a person alive. If you wanted them to burn for longer then the usual 45 minutes it takes to roast a person, you just decreased the heat of the fire and they could slow cook for a few hours. This brazen bull is a spitting image of the picture you are drawing God sees as fit punishment for the devil. Except that you believe God would cook them three for eternity. What others see as a fitting punishment for sinners, except that others also see God doing this for eternity. Then an even more shocking insinuation that some make is that those who were simply unlucky to not have the opportunity to accept Jesus will receive this punishment.

Facepalm x eternity!!

It is the sickest people in history that invented torture devices. People with so much darkness in them. My God has no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. Please meditate on that verse a couple of hours!! Grasp the few verses mentioning ''''fire'''' in context of who God is!

What I do find hilarious about the brazen bull example is that the person who put this idea forward. Then made it. Was the first to be thrown in. When we teach that such is a fitting punishment. When we teach that our God will do such and worse. We are just like that inventor. We have so much darkness in our minds that we in fact deserve to be thrown in it.

I am also just absolutely shocked that you and others are '''ok''' with serving a God who you believe would do this to others.

You guys are guilty of grossly miss-representing God.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ -- Look at Revelation 20:10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur , where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They will be tortured day and night for ever and ever. "

It's God's Word not mine. And I do believe God's Word. Sounds like You Don't. It's not like God is going to be standing over them holding them down in that lake of burning sulfur. That would be torture. It IS their negative consequence for their actions.

Negative consequence for their actions equates to God being justified to torture them in burning sulfur for eternity. You believe God's word and I don't?

You just don't understand what torture is and you are not even trying to discern the truth.

The word the scripture is using (torment / torture) is to describe the state of a person that is in banishment from God's presence. God has said such a place is a place of death. Those in Abrahams bosom and Adam on earth were in a '''death'' state. The fire, needs to be considered with light from God's metaphorical use of the word ''death'' and in the light of these three verses.

1. Luke 16:24 The rich man asking for a drop of water.

Have you seen the Oscar Pretorius case? In court he was constantly weeping and grinding his teeth from regret. Shame. Horror at grasping what has happened. He drank lots of water. Asked for many drops of water on his tongue. What he did not ask for, what the rich man did not ask for was bucket loads of water that someone in a brazen bull would ask for.

2. Luke 13:28 People weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see they are cast out.

The torment mentioned here is the fact that they can look up and see that they are cast out. Often people falsely teach that it is from the fire burning them.

3. Gen 19:28 Sodom looked like a furnace.

When God rained fire and brimstone on Sodom. They died quick deaths. From the hill Sodom looked like a furnace. There was no torture from God. When people are burnt at a stake, some use to wrap their legs in a cloth that would cause them to burn for longer. God did nothing like this. His wrath was graphic and swift. Graphic speaks to His frustration and hatred of what is wicked. As with His choice of stoning among Jews. No torture! Swift execution.

Conclusion: We need to grasp that God is good and a righteous judge. He will never repay eye for an eye or worse. In order to have a true glimpse of hell we need to try and grasp how someone like Mother Theresa would deal with someone like Stalin and then someone like Hillary Clinton. Will she say ''''put them in a brazen bull for a day'''? I wouldn't say that. Yet you are ok with believing God would. God who Jesus says is better then any of us Mark 10:18 and has no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- I Do recall that in Genesis God specifically told Adam and Eve to NOT eat fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He knew what would happen if they Did.

Why don't you mention what happened? You jump to '''lie = axe murderer '' insinuation.

Adam and Eve became aware of nakedness. God clothed them. They were then banished to earth after God explaining to them why and what to expect. There was no ''you two are axe murderers now, I will rain fire and brimstone on you''.

But they did Not listen to God -- did Not follow His directions. That means that some one might only tell a little white lie -- and some will be an axe murderer. A lie is Still sin.

They disobeyed once. I am sure they listened to His directions on earth. There is no scripture that says they murdered like Cain.

A lie is a sin. A lie can be 0.0001 / 100 or 1/100 or higher. But an axe murderer is always going to be 10/10. God will rain fire and brimstone on an axe murderer not necessarily a liar. Gen 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.

God DOES know what the human heart is capable of doing. We see the affects of That in the news every day. And the Jewish holocost is a horrible example of the terrible things that people Are capable of doing to each other. Many other examples in history since then.

What is your point? Liars deserve the same fate as Himmler? Compared to God we all have darkness. But there are shades of black. God is a righteous judge. Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge in 1 Cor 6:1-8.

 

[Sue D.]

I am facepalming myself to so many posts here. It is as though so many of us get tunnel vision and lose all rational thought.

Sue, the brazen bull is a torture device that would cook a person alive. If you wanted them to burn for longer then the usual 45 minutes it takes to roast a person, you just decreased the heat of the fire and they could slow cook for a few hours. This brazen bull is a spitting image of the picture you are drawing God sees as fit punishment for the devil. Except that you believe God would cook them three for eternity. What others see as a fitting punishment for sinners, except that others also see God doing this for eternity. Then an even more shocking insinuation that some make is that those who were simply unlucky to not have the opportunity to accept Jesus will receive this punishment.

Facepalm x eternity!!

It is the sickest people in history that invented torture devices. People with so much darkness in them. My God has no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. Please meditate on that verse a couple of hours!! Grasp the few verses mentioning ''''fire'''' in context of who God is!

What I do find hilarious about the brazen bull example is that the person who put this idea forward. Then made it. Was the first to be thrown in. When we teach that such is a fitting punishment. When we teach that our God will do such and worse. We are just like that inventor. We have so much darkness in our minds that we in fact deserve to be thrown in it.

I am also just absolutely shocked that you and others are '''ok''' with serving a God who you believe would do this to others.

You guys are guilty of grossly miss-representing God.

Okay -- so you don't like what God's telling us in His Word to us. He's Telling mankind exactly what is going to happen to satan, the beast and the false prophet in the end. He tells us exactly how to NOT end up in that same situation.

KingJ -- those three mentioned already knew their final destination. Satan especially. I don't think anyone really knows who the other two people are at this time in history. Lots of speculation, but no real identity.

And, yes God's Word Does say it Will be for eternity.

As for those who are unlucky enough to Not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior -- well -- Everyone Will have the opportunity to hear the Gospel unto Salvation -- what they Do with that information is up to Them. This world has all kinds of modern technology that makes those 'remote parts of Africa' not so remote anymore. And there Are missionaries who God Does lead to various parts of the world To share that Gospel unto Salvation With. So -- if You feel a burden for some part of the world to Share that with -- by all means Go to them and Share.

And, yes, there have been and still are some Very sick people in this world. And they all have a soul and need God's salvation.

So -- you are suggesting that You are Not okay with serving the God who has given us His Word and has been Warning people since the beginning of time of sin and the negative consequences of sin and has given us a Savior From the negative consequence.

 

[Sue D.]

Negative consequence for their actions equates to God being justified to torture them in burning sulfur for eternity. You believe God's word and I don't?

You just don't understand what torture is and you are not even trying to discern the truth.

The word the scripture is using (torment / torture) is to describe the state of a person that is in banishment from God's presence. God has said such a place is a place of death. Those in Abrahams bosom and Adam on earth were in a '''death'' state. The fire, needs to be considered with light from God's metaphorical use of the word ''death'' and in the light of these three verses.

1. Luke 16:24 The rich man asking for a drop of water.

Have you seen the Oscar Pretorius case? In court he was constantly weeping and grinding his teeth from regret. Shame. Horror at grasping what has happened. He drank lots of water. Asked for many drops of water on his tongue. What he did not ask for, what the rich man did not ask for was bucket loads of water that someone in a brazen bull would ask for.

2. Luke 13:28 People weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see they are cast out.

The torment mentioned here is the fact that they can look up and see that they are cast out. Often people falsely teach that it is from the fire burning them.

3. Gen 19:28 Sodom looked like a furnace.

When God rained fire and brimstone on Sodom. They died quick deaths. From the hill Sodom looked like a furnace. There was no torture from God. When people are burnt at a stake, some use to wrap their legs in a cloth that would cause them to burn for longer. God did nothing like this. His wrath was graphic and swift. Graphic speaks to His frustration and hatred of what is wicked. As with His choice of stoning among Jews. No torture! Swift execution.

Conclusion: We need to grasp that God is good and a righteous judge. He will never repay eye for an eye or worse. In order to have a true glimpse of hell we need to try and grasp how someone like Mother Theresa would deal with someone like Stalin and then someone like Hillary Clinton. Will she say ''''put them in a brazen bull for a day'''? I wouldn't say that. Yet you are ok with believing God would. God who Jesus says is better then any of us Mark 10:18 and has no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

God does Not 'torture' anyone. If a person does Not want to be in the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity -- then don't do the crime -- accept God's way Out.

Those in Abraham's bosom were Not in any death state. They were fully conscious Waiting for eternity. Besides, there were two parts of Abraham's bosom -- one side for those who had died before the cross took place. The rich man was in the hades side and Lazarus was in the paradise side.

No, I have Not seen the Oscar Pretarius case. We don't actually know What the conditions were / are in hades. Except that we don't want to end up there.

And, yes, in This world --fire Does work differently than Bible states that it will in Eternity.

And, yes, Sodom and Gomorrha is a warning for Us. That was a Quick death for them -- Lake of fire and brimstone Won't be.

And, yes, 'In Conclusion" God Is a good and righteous judge. And He also Has given all of us Plenty of warning of what's in the future. The Eternal wonders of heaven and/ or the horrors of hell. Take your pick / your choice.

 

[Sue D.]

Why don't you mention what happened? You jump to '''lie = axe murderer '' insinuation.

Adam and Eve became aware of nakedness. God clothed them. They were then banished to earth after God explaining to them why and what to expect. There was no ''you two are axe murderers now, I will rain fire and brimstone on you''.


They disobeyed once. I am sure they listened to His directions on earth. There is no scripture that says they murdered like Cain.

A lie is a sin. A lie can be 0.0001 / 100 or 1/100 or higher. But an axe murderer is always going to be 10/10. God will rain fire and brimstone on an axe murderer not necessarily a liar. Gen 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous.

What is your point? Liars deserve the same fate as Himmler? Compared to God we all have darkness. But there are shades of black. God is a righteous judge. Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge in 1 Cor 6:1-8.

Adam and Eve were already On the earth -- They Were banished from the garden and out into the rest of the world. And, they had already Been warned about what would happen if they ate that fruit. But satan got in the act and they ended up believing satan's lies / satan worked on their desire for knowledge. Nothing Wrong with knowledge -- but that meant 'of Both good and evil'. They could Expect to Not live forever And /Nor in Paradise / Garden of Eden any longer.

I was using the examples of extremes in sins. Yes, they disobeyed just once. That's all it takes -- just once. And how do You know they listened to His directions on earth. That's the only place they were -- on earth.

No one Has to murder like Cain. There are plenty of other ways to sin.

The point in God's Word is that we're all born with the propensity for sin. Which means that we will All sin in some way while we're alive. Maybe it will all be in our thoughts -- those can be sinful, too. And Nothing is hidden from God. And All sin deserves death. Just like Romans says. No, black is black. There Are shades of grey and all other colors. But the Gift of God is Eternal LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Dovegiven]

And that is exactly what I am dealing with, a Christian neighbor who was heavily burglarized, and is now questioning how Jesus would have allowed that. Satan is at work in that Christian's mind. He believed angels would protect his property. I was burglarized in the same neighborhood in 1998. I had believed the same until reminded the main job of Satan is to steal, kill and destroy. I outfitted my home with prayer, faith, plus an ever expanding physical security system, with no breach since then. I've learned not to accumulate visible wealth, too. That was converted to community helps. Lesson learned!

 

[Chad]

Today we have two predominant Christian viewpoints on hell. One is the horrendous traditional Biblical view and the other a modern more merciful form of Hell. Which one is correct? The Traditional one is that Hell (Gehenna) is the second death and a place of fiery torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth. Ten thousand centuries will come and go, and not one day in Hell will have ended. In the amount of time it takes a new universe to expand and collapse, not a single evening in the furnace of Hell will have gone by.

In Hell, you’ll have nothing to do, and nothing to think about except your rebellious past and how you rejected your Creator, Lord and Saviour. In addition to all the unceasing and unspeakable pain you’ll be feeling, you will have the added despair of knowing that the life you lived in the flesh was completely in vain. You will be fully conscious and awake to experience a nightmare above any nightmare you ever experienced while alive. And just when you think you can’t take anymore, an eternity of suffering awaits you still.

Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”

Matthew 13:50 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur.

In the future, when God judges the wicked angels along with evil humanity, then hell, (Gehenna) will become inhabited. At the moment Hell is empty. Of course for obvious reason this view is losing out in popularity. You can attend some churches for thirty years and not hear a peep about Hell. People are ashamed of this merciless idea. They are ready for something new, for what modern theologians think is a better take on Hell. They are championing the acceptance of what they consider to be a more merciful form of Gehenna, one that is more easily seen as being in tune with a warm and loving Jesus with outstretched arms of comfort and care.


We are being told by the new Christians to just forget what every unrefined Roman Catholic, Baptist, or Pentecostal preacher ever told you about Hell. Hell is not the polar opposite of heaven. It is just absence from God. The fires of Hell are figurative, and so is the actual suffering experienced. They are not really real. The suffering experienced in hell is just suffering in the mind (in the spirit mind) of a deceased unbeliever. As he passed into eternity, his body died while his spirit (and therefore consciousness) lived on, but now his soul was separated from God into the “blackness of darkness” of the absence of the Almighty (Jude 1:13).


It is as if Christians today are embarrassed about biblical hell.

God is eternal.
Heaven is eternal.
Hell is eternal.

God doesn’t send people to hell. They reject Christ and end up there. Their choice out of their free will.

Please read this: [BGCOLOR=rgb(60, 64, 71)]https://www.talkjesus.com/threads/eternal-hell.16006/[/BGCOLOR]

 

[Chad]

If any unbeliever really found himself in Gehenna he would instantly become a believer. There are no atheists or unbelievers in hell . Just believers in God and Jesus. The first second in hell will convert the most harden sinner. There would be no doubt, ifs, ands, or buts.

That’s their choice to reject God on Earth. No chance after the first death. God is just, fair, immensely forgiving but people are evil and choose darkness over light.

 

[Curtis]

God's presence is in hell!

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

There is a big difference between God's presence in a place, and being able to enjoy his presence!

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

How is this for a "deterrent" ?

 

[KingJ]

Adam and Eve were already On the earth -- They Were banished from the garden and out into the rest of the world. And, they had already Been warned about what would happen if they ate that fruit. But satan got in the act and they ended up believing satan's lies / satan worked on their desire for knowledge. Nothing Wrong with knowledge -- but that meant 'of Both good and evil'. They could Expect to Not live forever And /Nor in Paradise / Garden of Eden any longer.

I was using the examples of extremes in sins. Yes, they disobeyed just once. That's all it takes -- just once. And how do You know they listened to His directions on earth. That's the only place they were -- on earth.

No one Has to murder like Cain. There are plenty of other ways to sin.

The point in God's Word is that we're all born with the propensity for sin. Which means that we will All sin in some way while we're alive. Maybe it will all be in our thoughts -- those can be sinful, too. And Nothing is hidden from God. And All sin deserves death. Just like Romans says. No, black is black. There Are shades of grey and all other colors. But the Gift of God is Eternal LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sue I just don't know what to say to your posts. You have not dealt with anything I have said. You seem to think saying we can accept Jesus alleviates you from being ok with God torturing. You accuse me of not accepting a cherry picked scripture of Satan in fire and brimstone that you read with the worst assumption possible. Not wielding the word or defending, explaining how God is good in that given situation.

 

[KingJ]

God's presence is in hell!

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

There is a big difference between God's presence in a place, and being able to enjoy his presence!

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

How is this for a "deterrent" ?

Who are you replying to? Isa 66 is talking to the millennium, after the tribulation. All the carcasses from the wars. The wicked that never repented and died to God's plagues and wars. There is no 'flesh' in heaven or hell.