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Is homosexuality a result of imperfection?

Still on homosexuality.

Wowzas! I assure you, my only agenda is having equal legal protection, lol. My spouse and I aren't going to hell for our love. We don't need people praying for us. Pray for people who need it: those in poverty, those who are victims of violence, etc.

The sorry thing is that we are not the ones to judge ourselves when we face the Lord. Moreover, we are not going to be judged by national Constitutions and Court rulings. We are going to be judged by His Word and the truth we refuse to accept.
 
The sorry thing is that we are not the ones to judge ourselves when we face the Lord. Moreover, we are not going to be judged by national Constitutions and Court rulings. We are going to be judged by His Word and the truth we refuse to accept.


My goodness this is and old thread! I remember when it began. I wonder if my friend Eli from Italy ever got answers to his concerns. I wonder what ever happened to him. Did he give into the advances of that co worker or did he resist and stay true to his wife? And dear old Sparky.. the actions of "christians" drove him back to the Watchtower. So sad.

But I am very proud of the way the Talk Jesus has responded to Shawn. God Bless you all!! Shawn claims to be "christian" but rejects the truth. That is sad. He said he did not want us to pray for him. To bad because I have and will continue to.

Shawn is the only one that has professed his belief that he was born gay. A belief that is prevelant in these end times. Let us pray for the Holy Spirit to work in his life to help him overcome and realize his only hope is in Jesus.
 
God created man in His own image. God creates- everything about Him brings life.
We procreate and life is brought forth.
Homosexuality is sterile and can never produce life.

Like all sin it had it's origins when man choose his will over God's will.
 
Wowzas! I assure you, my only agenda is having equal legal protection, lol. My spouse and I aren't going to hell for our love. We don't need people praying for us. Pray for people who need it: those in poverty, those who are victims of violence, etc.

Dear Shawn,

How can you be a christian and a gay? It is completely against the bible. At first when I seen your profile I never realized it, but after I seen your posts, I do.

Allow me to tell you something, whether you like it or not, you either have to be a christian, or you have to be a gay. You can't be both, it is impossible according to the bible. According to the bible homosexuals cannot inherit God's kingdom.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

Verse 9:*Don’t you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, Verse 10:*thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers—none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God.


So, there are only 2 choices left to you:

1) Christian

or

2) Gay

I really hope you become a christian.
 
Revelation chapter 21 crystal clear on that fact


5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, F112 "Write, for these words are true and faithful." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! F113 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, F114 and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, F115 abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
 
All the passages many of you have quoted are correct in saying that sin will not be rewarded. However, Jesus through Matthew:

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Sin is something we all live with. We are not in the position to judge others. Instead, we are in the position to forgive as our father forgives us and walk with a kind heart toward others. These people are your brothers and sisters. This is what Jesus taught us to do.

Be wary of becoming self righteous.
 
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I have a confession to make. I STRONGLY feel God pushing at me to write this. I've read everyone's comment and have attempted to avoid telling this. But, the Great and Almighty God has a purpose behind this. This is my story and how it was for me.

My father was severly addicted to drugs. He came from a violent home. His father was an alcoholic. My father was controlling, emotionally abusive, manipulative, violent and I can't recall anytime during my childhood of him telling me he loved me. My father was physically abusive toward my mother. He had many violent outburst, which caused me to be terrified of all men.

My mother, severely co-dependent. She never was the type of mother who showed me and my sisters how to be 'girls'. I think my mom was so wrapped up in catering to my dad and keeping him 'calm' that she didn't have the strength to raise me and my sisters.

While growing up, most of the men in my life were controlling, abusive and downright violent. Majority of them used drugs or alcohol. There really wasn't a strong, positive male figure in my childhood. I was sexually abused by a older male cousin. I grew up hating and rejecting all men. I grew up searching for the 'motherly' nurturing I so needed. There was this huge void inside of me just wanting my mother to love me and be a mother. I couldn't get that from her. I think she had such low self-esteem and self-hatred that she couldn't love me and my siblings. She didn't know how. So, I looked for it elsewhere.

I never considered myself gay, bi or whatever. I was looking for a mother. I was looking for that love only a mother can show a daughter(if that makes sense). I convinced myself that I would never find that in a man. Did I find it on the other side? NO! It only made things worse. It only made that void bigger. It added more fuel to the fire so to speak. I ended up hating myself more, needing more, more insecurity, wondering why no one would love me, consumed with guilt(deep down I knew it was wrong), totally ashamed and hating what I had done, feeling more and more like an outcast and losing myself. Above all, directly disobeying and hurting God. I came to the point I didn't think I mattered. Not to God, not to anyone.

I kept it a secret. I kept all my secrets bottled up inside of me. I talked to no one about it, not even God. Not even about the sexual abuse. My secrets consumed me. I was being eaten alive from the inside out. I had severe bouts of depression, food addiction, etc. I isolated myself worrying that I would be found out. It ate, and ate and ate at me to the point, I didn't want to go on. I ended spending sometime in a hospital over it. Thank God He lead me to the hospital. I sat there for days thinking my life was over. Thinking if I tell anyone about this, they too will reject me. I felt it was the end.

My youngest sister came to visit me one day. She asked me if there was anything I needed to tell her. I immediately and bluntly said "NO!" She told me there wasn't anything I could tell her that would change how she felt about me. I still refused to say anything thinking I would lose my sister over the things I done.

Its amazing how God works. One of the psych nurses was a christian. She was different than the other nurses, doctors, etc. She took time during each and every day she worked, to sit down and talk to me. Now, due to policies, she was not allowed to out right tell me or talk to me about God. She told me that there was something greater than me, my problems, the world...that would love me no matter what. That would work miracles in my life if I would just trust it. All I had to do was ask. There was nothing I had done that would keep this Greater thing from accepting me and loving me. She told me to just let it go. To write it down, confess it and to turn away from it. So, I sat down and began writing and trusted what she said. Several days later, I gave my sister what I had wrote when she was leaving after her visit with me. Yes, I was scared to death. I didn't sleep that night thinking "I have done it now! She's not going to want anything to do with me again."

The next day, my sister came, took me in her arms and told me she loved and accepted me no matter what. Now, this Something Greater had been working miracles in my life long before I accepted Him into my life. As I look back on everything now, I felt God tore me down to bring me back up. He wanted to show me His unconditional, powerful, amazing love. He has more than filled that void inside of me. He has given me eveything I have been searching for. He has taken me out of that deep dark pit of darkenss and brought me into His light. Thank you Lord!!

I hope this all makes sense and all spelling is correct . I hope my post hasn't offended anyone. God bless.
 
These people are your brothers and sisters.


Matt. 12:48-50
48He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"
49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.
50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
 
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My father was severly addicted to drugs. He came from a violent home. His father was an alcoholic. My father was controlling, emotionally abusive, manipulative, violent and I can't recall anytime during my childhood of him telling me he loved me. My father was physically abusive toward my mother.

The next day, my sister came, took me in her arms and told me she loved and accepted me no matter what. Now, this Something Greater had been working miracles in my life long before I accepted Him into my life. As I look back on everything now, I felt God tore me down to bring me back up. He wanted to show me His unconditional, powerful, amazing love. He has more than filled that void inside of me. He has given me eveything I have been searching for. He has taken me out of that deep dark pit of darkenss and brought me into His light. Thank you Lord!!


Tea4me, lets sit down.. me and you, and have tea4two

What you shared is really amazing.. really

I pray His love will continue to touch your heart and bring healing to your life, into the deep recesses of your heart.

My father was very abusive to me, like yours.
The correlation between the men attracted to you, and how your dad was to you..
it's amazing.
Some insight of this pattern is seen thru the eyes of Gods' word in Psalm 42:7 --
Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves and breakers have swept over me.


You have a tender heart. Guard it with all your might. Men don't care about it. You know this already.
I'm thrilled for you.. and your sister.

Stay committed to His house, and enjoy His presence.
Along the way, He'll help you recognize the wolves in sheeps' clothing..

Kinda like bank tellers who handle cash day in and day out.....
.........when the counterfeit ones come across.. they recognize it,
because they've immersed themselves in the handling of the genuine.. day in... and day out :happy:


God bless you, Marco
 
Just some thoughts on your post:
This will always be a tough one, and especially in these last where the US and UK governments change laws now so we can be prosecuted for speaking out against such things.
Very sad but surely a sign that was promised- we will be persecuted and the truth is no longer accepted
It is interesting to here how many times someone of this nature will say, I can't help I should have been born a woman, not a man, it's in my genes and so on.
These dear souls need to be born again and receive a new life with new tendencies and a new heritage- that of the 2nd Adam.
But this is like Jack the Ripper in the UK saying I can't help it, my father was a serial killer as well, I simply must go out and kill and have my fix, it's in my genes.

Like Adam saying I can't help it, transfixed by the darn fruit tree, I so gotta eat of it, can't help myself. Though we know it was Eve first.
We can ask the question why Eve, women, are they are softer touch, no disrepect, I'm taking fairer sex, though actually today, modern western culture you find women harder and more independent than men, but that's another story all together, :).
Truthfully Adam could have helped it ; he placed his will and his desire (for the woman) ahead of his love and obediance to God.
I have often been accused of giving satan too much credit, as if everything is down to him, when unlike God he can't be every where at once.
But this is where the demons come in (fallen angels).

If we do something often enough and I know from personal lust experience, it opens doors and lets them in.

It can be difficult, I recall being put off and probably still am, people like George Michael and Boy George and so on.

Then I'll say though to anyone like that no, it's not you, God loves you, love the person hate the sin.

Often, don't know about others, if we are weak in faith, I know I tend to lash out at something to protect myself.
This is certainly true- Jesus reached out in love and offered freedom. religion offers condemnation and the pointing of fingers. Most folks know what their problem is and need to be shown the answer.
Same with TV stuff, because I'm frightened of being influenced.

How Lot lived in Sodom I don't know, with all that went on around him, and maybe he was influenced to some extent.

We see this today with powerful medium that TV is.
And we know before Jesus returns how bad this will get.

Even the so called Christian channels are now a con, all prosperity teaching, give money to us and be blessed with an angel and money in return, so on.
Be selective- it is like eating watermelon, you have to eat the fruit but spit out the seeds. Personally I only watch a few "Christian" shows as most are a perversion of faith teaching love of worldly gain. That is in direct opposition to the heart of Jesus Christ.
Sign of the times I guess.
Anyway, hope that helps some.
You raise some good points- I believe the old adage that we are what we eat and that applies even spiritually. We certainly need to feed our inner man the things of God then we will be able to reach out to lost souls. Those without Christ are going to live in sin one way or another. It may be an outwardly corrupt lifestyle like homosexuality or it may be well hidden under a conservative exterior but still full of the same dead man's bones.
These souls need the love and life of Christ to set them free and this is a call to prayer.

Many blessings in Jesus wonderful Name,
brother Larry.
 
This is a subject i would quite like your views on.Because of the line of work i have often been invoved in i have come into contact with a lot of people some of whom are **********.Im a very frank person and have asked many of them why they adopted this lifestyle.To a hetro-sexual person it is a compltete mystery to me how you can find someone of the same sex, sexually attractive?What was interesting about many of their replies is that homosexuals seem to fall into two catergories.The first catergory being people who have had bad hetro-sexual experiences,ie abusive realationships,unfaithful partners etc.They have turned to their own sex in the misguided notion that these things would no longer affect them.It is the second catergory which raises the question that entitles this thread.These are people who are ********** because they have only ever been attracted to ones of their own sex,in fact the thought of physical contact with the opposite sex is repugnant.So could homosexuality be in the genes?

Now before any of you jump down my throat,i am not condoning homosexuality or saying this as an excuse for people who practice it.All i know is when adam turned his back on god not only did he lose the chance of making this earth one huge garden of eden but he also introduced imperfection into our lives.That imperfection manifests itself in both the mental and physical in us today.I myself have been born with a genetic imperfection,i cant do anything about it i just have to deal with it.Is it the same for some homosexuals,they are born with a genetic screw-up?Is it connected that often ********** couples are often made up of an effiminate and a masculine figure in some weird parody of a hetro-sexual couple?

Is there any single godly men or women out there who have struggled with their feelings for their own sex,put God first and are single because of it?We are all tested repeatedly,our faith under fire each and every day we all have weaknesses particular to us,is this a weakness some of us constantly battle to overcome?I dont mean to be contentious bringing up this issue but its something ive often thought about and would be interested in any of your views.

None of us can help our sin. None of us chose to be born in sin, but we were. Therefore we have to admit it confess it and seek redemption for it. Homosexuals are no different. :smiling:
 
I know this thread is old & cold, but i wanted to respond as a guy who was only attracted to guys from my earliest memories. First, Jesus saved me when I was 13. I was well aware of God's disapproval of my desires. I didn't like them either, so it was easy to agree with Him. But that didn't make them go away. I didn't consciously choose to have those desires. My freedom has only come as I learn who I am in Christ, who He made me to be, and walk in obedience and faith, in a community of loving brothers in Christ.

Human sexuality is incredibly complex...just like the One who designed it. The fast answer to the question is, "yes." Homosexuality is a result of all kinds of imperfection. But you can't drop all the blame on genetics. From my experience, same-sex-attractions come from a complex interaction of personality, life's circumstances, and sinful reactions to those circumstances. Of the three components, the one that may have some genetic basis is personality. But I'd rather call it a "predisposition" rather than a "cause".

Guys who start out life shy, quiet, and sensitive are much more likely to develop same sex attractions, but there are always other contributing factors (usually an absent or harsh father, and an overprotective mother, in the absence of healthy peer relationships, and in the absence of a male father figure/mentor). The whole thing gets really complicated if there is sexual abuse going on too.

How a person reacts to life is also a factor...I know, for my part, I chose to withdraw emotionally from my dad when I was 7 or 8. I put up a wall out of fear, to avoid being hurt anymore. I cut myself off from my dad, and anyone that reminded me of him (basically, all males). I wouldn't trust any guys because I perceived them as rough and critical. At the same time, I was desperate to connect with my dad and peers, even to the point of jealousy of them. But I had made my choice to avoid them and disconnect. My mom was safe, so I stuck with her and the girls in school.

"The feminine" was safe and familiar to me, but "the masculine" was a total mystery..a bit scary, but emotionally charged. By the time I hit puberty, my emotional desires were at the wrong place at the wrong time, and the desire became erotic as well as emotional.

I apologize if all that is too graphic, but i really wanted to explain that these things are so complicated, it can't be reduced to a simple "born gay" theory. The road to freedom is just as complicated, but very, very possible (Thank You, Jesus!). It's kind of pointless to tell someone to just "stop thinking those thoughts." "Those thoughts" are there for a reason...it's like a gauge on your car's dashboard, screaming at you. You don't just take a hammer and smash the warning lights when they turn on...you find out what's wrong and fix that problem.

Jesus can forgive our sins and the sins others have committed against us. Learning to trust God, we can find better ways to deal with circumstances in life that we don't like. the Bible is FULL of practical advice and examples of how we are to live and function as men and women, so we can learn what our roles are, regardless of bad modelling we've been exposed to. And even our personalities can be renewed...("...all things are made new") in Christ. So, He really is the total answer to the problem, in spite of whatever genetic predispositions we may have. Unfortunately, all that takes hard work, much grace, the power of the Holy Spirit, and a context of healthy relationships with brothers in Christ...and a WHOLE lot of patience and understanding from those who are led to help.

Sorry for the long post. But, it's a really complicated issue.
 
It is the result of imperfection, inherent sin, all mankind are imperfect, apart from saving grace

By His grace, many have come through such experience, and according to His mercy, many have not know it....By His Grace.....not of works etc......lest any should boast

As christians we reach out to all in such situations.
 
And even our personalities can be renewed...("...all things are made new") in Christ. So, He really is the total answer to the problem, in spite of whatever genetic predispositions we may have.

Mike, thank you for this post. You've been given what my pastor calls "The gift of guts" and in using that gift, you've brought compassion to a subject that usually brings only condemnation.

While its contributing circumstances are complicated, homosexuality is a sin. However, many gays are not concerned with the sin issue either because their consciences are seared over or they've never been exposed to God's law. As Paul said in Ro 7:7 NIV - "Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law."

Harsh, hateful, condemning words push gays away from God. Our role is to try to love them into the Kingdom while holding fast to Scriptural truth. If we do that, when Christ returns, there'll be thousands of ex-gays entering the Gates of Pearl.

SLE
 
Dear Shawn,

How can you be a christian and a gay? It is completely against the bible. At first when I seen your profile I never realized it, but after I seen your posts, I do.

I guess it depends on one's definition of Christian.
 
Exactly, Ed! In fact, for those who have embraced the lifestyle, it's *almost* useless to re-hash the verses where the practice is condemned (unless the person is truly unaware of what the Bible says about it - which would be very rare). Instead, I would focus on simply the 10 commandments and the spiritual application of them that Jesus gave. Let the Law be the schoolmaster to lead anyone to Christ. The Law is good, if one uses it lawfully..."The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." The Law wasn't given to make men righteous...it was given to convert sinners (all of us).

If a person is committed to an immoral lifestyle, and he isn't convicted by what the Law says about stealing, lying, dishonoring parents, and loving God perfectly, they won't be convicted by what the Law says regarding homosexuality either. There are so many other laws they've broken, there's really no need to stay locked on that one issue.

I'm not saying we should avoid the subject, but in their minds, Christians are just taking over where the world left off picking on them for being different. Maybe laying off that one issue and focusing on other sins would send a message that we're really concerned about their sinful condition in general, and the lake of fire they're heading for.

I know that the guys who helped me the most were the ones that I knew were really concerened about me, warts and all. Thanks for the encouragement, Ed!
 
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I dont think god said being gay is disgusting. He did say it was a sin, I dont think its disgusting, but then again Im not god.
 
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