Is homosexuality a result of imperfection?

[SpiritLedEd]

I dont think god said being gay is disgusting. He did say it was a sin, I dont think its disgusting, but then again Im not god.

"How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice." (SS 4:10 NIV)

I think Song of Songs (or Song of Solomon) is in the canon of Scripture to show the sensory aspect of God's nature; that He experiences emotions. He is emotionally invested in us, His children. It would follow, then, that sin, since it is an abomination, is disgusting to Him.

SLE

 

[iamamazed]

A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. (NIV, Deuteronomy 22:5) ]

If mere clothing separates man/woman per the bible, then I would safely say that the practice of a man trying to pretend or act as to be a woman or vice versa would be detested by God.

Many defenses from persons trying to twist the Word to their own advantage are that we are judgemental of their lifestyle.

Might I say that it is our duty to protect ourselves from any attempt to sway us to deviate from the Word. Hence, my relply. Thankyou, I hope this helps.

 

[LindenLady]

I believe that being a ********** is what it is... but the sin lies in acting upon that desire. Much like heterosexual desire for someone other than your spouse. Sin is sin, and God considers all sin an abomination. I look at it this way. When God looks into your heart... what does He see? Is it pure and clean and perfect or is it riddle with sin... ??? I can answer for myself.. My heart is riddle with black ragged holes of sin... but I truly do try to NOT sin, and when I do sin, I recognize the spirit disciplining me and convicting me of my sin. I confess them all, and wash my soul in the blood of Jesus.

I have a dear friend that is gay. She chose to live far out in the country in a little "Hobbit House" that she herself built. She did this so that she can remain celebate and serve the Lord. She doesn't understand her homosexuality, but she says she knows that she will one day be perfect in the eyes of God and will live with Him forever because she has given her heart, soul and life over to Christ. She tells me she is happier than she ever thought possible..

 

[Theologian]

Gay people are who they are. In my view, I seek no explanation as to why they adopted the lifestyle or why they continue. Simply put, they are human beings as well. They are not monsters, rapists or child molesters like some would have you believe. They, deep inside, have the same blood as you. Their heart beats just the same as yours. My belief is that you should set aside trying to change them or hate them and learn to recognize them as human beings, as brothers and sisters in arms against the injustice in the world.

 

[spirit1st]

Lots of older gays want young guys! Sin grows worse and worse in peoples lives! It does not stop growing! It gets worse! God destroyed many cities for that reason! It not normal and we are not born that way! It really makes no sense for a person to be that way any how!
It just another trick of the great deceiver to get mankind to rebel against GOD! It defeats the Purpose for the reason God made a Man and a Woman.
It not only hurts those people but there kids and others who know them! Many then think ,it is a good way of life!

Gen 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;


Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds


2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
We CAN REPENT and accept the LORD JESUS as LORD and be freed of this evil bondage! If WE WANT?

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Fraction]

No one can exactly directly point at Sodom and Gamorrah when on the subject of Sodom and Gamorrah. The two cities actually had a lot more than sexual immorality which is talk about several other times in the bible. So you can set those two aside for now.

However there are several other scriptures that refer to homosexuality directly without using the word homosexuality. (The word was not even invented until hundred of years later) I point that out because of two scriptures written in corinthians and revelation that in some bible versions point our homosexuality directly using that word. When in fact the words used in the original Hebrew and Greek text are very often used to describe prostitution. So those two can be set aside as well.

I will continue this with various other scriptures that describe the act itself. (Men with men, women with women) There are a decent few of those throughout the bible. More than enough to tell us that it is wrong.

I do believe that salvation and eternal life and being in Gods good graces is between US and GOD. Not us and peoples opinions. Not us and a book and God. Strictly between YOU, Jesus Christ, and God Himself.

It is all obvious that the sum of the bible depends on what exactly is in your heart. It depends on how you truely believe. Some homosexuals are very strong spiritually towards God. They act in the same manner we do, and believe the same things we do. Just because they act on something that they think they want and need, doesn't mean they do not know it is wrong. They could pray to God every day and confess and acknowledge their wrong doing. In no way will they try to justify it. Is that person going to heaven? No one can really say.

It is also obvious that a lot of scriptures talk specificly about true sinners. They have names and labels. These names and labels not only go to your actions but also your core beliefs. So when someone says "Murderers will go to hell", they should be talking about the murderers who try to justify it and think its okay to do the things that they do.

We are all sinners. The line is drawn when we truely believe that the sin is wrong or right. We will all do things that we know in our hearts are wrong and against Gods preference. Does that mean we will go to hell for it? Of course it doesn't! We know in our hearts that it is something we shouldnt have done, which will cause us to confess andd be forgiven.

In the end it will always come down to the relationship each of us have with God. It is simply that. Only he knows what is really in your heart. You can't pull the wool over his eyes and hide the bad, but you also can't hide the good either. God knows.

I believe that some people who are homosexuals will not go to hell. Some will. I believe that some constant sinners will not go to hell. I believe that some will as well. It all just depends. No one can really tell someone else anything besides "If you don't believe, you're gonna be in trouble".

 

[spirit1st]

Salvation is a New Spirit! Has nothing to do with our sin filled body! Many Do Not seem to understand it about our Spirit Not this dying body we dwell in a short time!
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


FEW Allow Him to be LORD of there lives! The true question is ? Do we really allow JESUS TO reule over our lives or do we serve satan?

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Many are bound by Sex , drugs , drinking , greed! and much more! He came to set us FREE ! I do not know who is born -again and who is not? Only God knows Everyone! But if we are living evil lives , it does not look good to me!
None of is live perfect type lives here , But We need to be trying to over come anything that is holding us back from a good relationship with HIM!
We are not going to ,if we are trying to live evil lives and appear to live righteous type lives! We cannot fool Him .We might fool each other?
He will help us over come anything that holds us back from serving HIM!

Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am.

i think many like sinning ?
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I feel very sorry for those bound by sin !

 

[Konquistador]

I take God at his word, and I actually read Bible verses in context to know what they are actually saying. EVERYTHING I see posted here is using God's message out of context and CONTRARY to God's message.

In the first place, God looked upon his creation and said it was GOOD. (Genesis). Homosexuals are part of creation, there is ZERO evidence that true gays have a choice. Therefore, God sees gays as part of his good creation.

Secondly, 1 Corinthians talks about what the Gentiles did that was unnatural to them, such as women having sex with women or men having sex with men. The entire first part of Romans is about things Gentiles do, including the orgies in pagan temples to the Gods, where heterosexuals had "unnatural" sex "against their nature" with other people of their same sex. If Paul had been asked "Is it unnatural for a gay man who by nature is attracted to other men, to have sex with another man?" he would clearly have said, "you should not try to go against the nature God has given you."

Despite the twisting of the Sodom and Gommorah stories by heretics and anti-Christians, Christ himself said that the sin of Sodom was inhospitality towards strangers (cities who didn't give hospitality to the disciples were committing the sin of Sodom and would be treated equally as badly).

As for Leviticus, and all the other laws therein, both Jesus and Paul state that the New Covenant due to Jesus' death released all believers from the Holiness Code ("the law"). Included in the abominations are eating pork, shrimp, crab, lobster, wearing clothing made of more than one fiber, eating any food grown in a field where another food had been grown, men trimming their bears, women who did not sit outside the city for 7 days doing purification rituals after menstruation, men who did not have sex with the widow of brother until the widow became pregnant and the child lived into adulthood, and if there was mold in the house having a priest kill birds and swing them around the house to spatter all the walls, or else the house was considered an abomination. Out of the 613 rules (not following them was an abomination), it must be explained why having sex in a pagan temple with another man as part of a fertility rite is a greater abomination than wearing clothes made of 2 different kinds of fibers. And I know lots of people who wear these kinds of clothes, and I know of no gay person who has sex in a pagan temple during fertility rites.

Why didn't Jesus condemn the gay Centurion, but instead said he had more faith leading to salvation than any Israelite who followed the Law? Why did Jesus say that "eunuchs by birth" (sometimes translated as "born eunuchs") were part of God's creation and an alternative to heterosexual marriage (Matt 19)? "eunuchs by birth" as described in both Jewish and Roman law, and the rabbinical writings in the time of Jesus, correspond exactly to what we today call homosexuals in a committed relationship today. Why did Jesus hold them up as an alternative in God's creation when speaking of heterosexual marriage and divorce, if he was against homosexuals?

Stop making hypocritical quotations about sin, as if they applied to something that they do not. Read the actual words of the Bible and what they say, rather than how you would like to falsely imagine what they say.

The abomination is to say that the Bible says something that it does not.

 

[spirit1st]

Homosexuals are part of creation

That is Not part of creation! You have a serious thinking problem , if you think that!
GOD did not though the new Covenant to a lesser walk but a greater walk with Him!
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


Grace Does Not Give us a right to Sin! You understand GOD Hates Sin! You understand? It Only took one Sin to kill everything on this Planet and the planet its self!
God did not Create Man to have sex with Man . nor woman with Woman!
This is Not pleasing in the EYES of our LORD and Creator!

It not normal and it has no good purpose!
I do not hate others .But hate to see other bound by Evil !
Sex is NOT the important thing of LIFE! But our relationship with God IS!

 

[spirit1st]

I see and hear lots of people who love evil in there lives , make it sound as if its OK for them to do evil ! As if now GOD likes seeing us do evil ! HE hates sin ! Not the way the Holy Ghost teaches in context the deep trues !
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.


Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.

1Co 3:3 For you are yet carnal. For in that there is among you envyings and strife and divisions, are you not carnal, and do you not walk according to men?


Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.

Gal 6:8 For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting from the Spirit.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.



God thought it was Important to tell how this evil anti-christ did not desire women!



Dan 11:37 He will not regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god. For he shall magnify himself above all.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

No one can exactly directly point at Sodom and Gamorrah when on the subject of Sodom and Gamorrah. The two cities actually had a lot more than sexual immorality which is talk about several other times in the bible. So you can set those two aside for now.

I do not think that Sodom and Gomorrah can be set aside in this discussion.

"Then the Lord said, 'The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.'" (Gen 18:20-21 NIV)

"Then he (Abraham) said, 'What if only ten (righteous men) cab be found there?'" He (The Lord) answered, '"For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.'" (Gen 18:32 NIV)

Apparently there were not even ten righteous men in those two towns.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[spirit1st]

Our Nation appears to be almost as bad as these cities! It so sad ! God has in my mind used the United States more than any nation on earth! yet Our leaders have rejected the one who made us the greatest nation ever in my mind! I LOVE my nation and I love these people! I hate even now seeing so many suffer in floods and fires and wars and so many other ways!
Knowing the great tribulation has not even come upon our nation yet! I do pray GOD will cause Us all to repent , and reject these leaders who want to lead Us away from OUR CREATOR the LORD JESUS CHRIST !
GOD bless All here who LOVE our LORD JESUS !


Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself


Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,


Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!



Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
.
Just means we Do not count the things of the Flesh ,greater than the things of GOD.Nothing in the flesh is worth , defiling our bodies!



Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Konquistador]

Homosexuals are part of creation

That is Not part of creation! You have a serious thinking problem , if you think that!
GOD did not though the new Covenant to a lesser walk but a greater walk with Him!
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


Grace Does Not Give us a right to Sin! You understand GOD Hates Sin! You understand? It Only took one Sin to kill everything on this Planet and the planet its self!
God did not Create Man to have sex with Man . nor woman with Woman!
This is Not pleasing in the EYES of our LORD and Creator!

It not normal and it has no good purpose!
I do not hate others .But hate to see other bound by Evil !
Sex is NOT the important thing of LIFE! But our relationship with God IS!

You are starting from the premise that because you don't like homosexual acts performed within a loving relationship, God doesn't like it either. It is the height of irrationality to define something as sin and then say that wherever the Bible says "sin" it refers to something you don't like. That is directly contrary to what Jesus said in innumerable verses, and exactly what he said the Pharisees did that would deny them entry into heaven. You have zero evidence that God did not create persons with homosexual orientation, except your own heretical self-centered opinion which is the opposite of loving your neighbor and opposite of Jesus' commandment not to judge unless you are as free of sin as God is. This thinking is an abomination. Why didn't Jesus condemn the gay centurion? Why did he point to gays (called "eunuchs by birth" in Roman and Jewish legal writings) as alternatives to heterosexual marriage that are part of God's creation. It is about time you learn how to read what the Bible actually says, and how church fathers interpreted it except for a few of the past 2000 yrs, and most of those misinterpretations occur in the relatively recent past. This blasphemy drives me crazy, it is simply heretical to say the Bible says what it does not say.

 

[Konquistador]

No one can exactly directly point at Sodom and Gamorrah when on the subject of Sodom and Gamorrah. The two cities actually had a lot more than sexual immorality which is talk about several other times in the bible. So you can set those two aside for now.

However there are several other scriptures that refer to homosexuality directly without using the word homosexuality. (The word was not even invented until hundred of years later) I point that out because of two scriptures written in corinthians and revelation that in some bible versions point our homosexuality directly using that word. When in fact the words used in the original Hebrew and Greek text are very often used to describe prostitution. So those two can be set aside as well.

I will continue this with various other scriptures that describe the act itself. (Men with men, women with women) There are a decent few of those throughout the bible. More than enough to tell us that it is wrong.

I do believe that salvation and eternal life and being in Gods good graces is between US and GOD. Not us and peoples opinions. Not us and a book and God. Strictly between YOU, Jesus Christ, and God Himself.

It is all obvious that the sum of the bible depends on what exactly is in your heart. It depends on how you truely believe. Some homosexuals are very strong spiritually towards God. They act in the same manner we do, and believe the same things we do. Just because they act on something that they think they want and need, doesn't mean they do not know it is wrong. They could pray to God every day and confess and acknowledge their wrong doing. In no way will they try to justify it. Is that person going to heaven? No one can really say.

It is also obvious that a lot of scriptures talk specificly about true sinners. They have names and labels. These names and labels not only go to your actions but also your core beliefs. So when someone says "Murderers will go to hell", they should be talking about the murderers who try to justify it and think its okay to do the things that they do.

We are all sinners. The line is drawn when we truely believe that the sin is wrong or right. We will all do things that we know in our hearts are wrong and against Gods preference. Does that mean we will go to hell for it? Of course it doesn't! We know in our hearts that it is something we shouldnt have done, which will cause us to confess andd be forgiven.

In the end it will always come down to the relationship each of us have with God. It is simply that. Only he knows what is really in your heart. You can't pull the wool over his eyes and hide the bad, but you also can't hide the good either. God knows.

I believe that some people who are homosexuals will not go to hell. Some will. I believe that some constant sinners will not go to hell. I believe that some will as well. It all just depends. No one can really tell someone else anything besides "If you don't believe, you're gonna be in trouble".

I generally agree with this, EXCEPT there is an implication that homosexuality (commited same-sex relationships) might possibly be wrong though a person might not know it.

There is zero evidence that God or Jesus thinks homsexuality (they didn't use this word until recently) is wrong, and we have actual documents that show it isn't considered a sin and that Jesus didn't have a different opinion. There is not one English translation of Leviticus 18:22 or the corresponding verse in Deuteronomy that corresponds to the original text in Hebrew or Greek texts. Not one.

Aside from this, Jesus was called "rabbi", and that term was/is applied only to Jewish persons who had studied the rabbinical writings, Talmud and otherwise. We have the texts of rabbinical writings dating from 100 yrs before Jesus and extending for at least 100 yrs after Jesus, where the rabbis all agreed in their writings that men having sex with boys (they called it "sporting with boys") was NOT against Leviticus 18:22 as long as it was not in a pagan ceremony and as long as there wasn't anal penetration. This is simple fact. Since they didn't talk about sex between men, we must assume that was not a concern of theirs and they didn't think it was sinful if it did not deviate from what they wrote about men and boys. If that's what they thought about it then, and that's what Jesus thought, we can't just go ahead and overrule Jesus' thoughts about the matter just because it makes us uncomfortable or because some other heretic mistranslates and misinterprets what the Bible says. If it wasn't a sin then, it doesn't suddenly become a sin now, whether we like it or not. You don't have to like it, you can think it's wrong, but you can't say it has anything to do with the Bible or God or Jesus because that is simply false.

Some folks can quote all the verses they want about sin, and distort passages such as Romans and 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, but that does not change what the actual facts are.

 

[Konquistador]

I do not think that Sodom and Gomorrah can be set aside in this discussion.

"Then the Lord said, 'The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.'" (Gen 18:20-21 NIV)

"Then he (Abraham) said, 'What if only ten (righteous men) cab be found there?'" He (The Lord) answered, '"For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.'" (Gen 18:32 NIV)

Apparently there were not even ten righteous men in those two towns.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Quoting scripture about sin does not mean it is about homosexuality, just because of your opinion. Jesus said the sin of Sodom was inhospitality, no mention of sex, and that's enough for me. If you want to think you have a better idea of what God thought than what Jesus said, go ahead, but perhaps you could quote some scripture that allows you to be more knowledgable about God than Jesus is.

 

[happyharold4]

Konquistador----In your last few posts---Are you serious or are you just baiting for response????????????

Happy

 

[agua]

Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Sodom and Gomorrah were involved in sexual immorality. There is no doubt.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.


There is no doubt that God does not approve of homsexuality as well.

 

[spirit1st]

Surely you see this is evil in GODS EYES!
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Pro 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

In the first place, God looked upon his creation and said it was GOOD. (Genesis). Homosexuals are part of creation, there is ZERO evidence that true gays have a choice. Therefore, God sees gays as part of his good creation.

Interesting that you didn't show the chapter and verse numbers for that Genesis quote. The citation is Gen 1:31, which comes before the account of the creation of man and therefore indicates that God's comment about His creation being perfect (good) only refers to what had been created up to that point.

Why didn't Jesus condemn the gay Centurion, but instead said he had more faith leading to salvation than any Israelite who followed the Law?

Where does Scripture say the centurion was gay? Are you presuming he was gay just because he cared deeply about another male? (see Mt 8:5-13) Don't you understand the multiple definitions of love?

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Konquistador]

Interesting that you didn't show the chapter and verse numbers for that Genesis quote. The citation is Gen 1:31, which comes before the account of the creation of man and therefore indicates that God's comment about His creation being perfect (good) only refers to what had been created up to that point.



Where does Scripture say the centurion was gay? Are you presuming he was gay just because he cared deeply about another male? (see Mt 8:5-13) Don't you understand the multiple definitions of love?

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Gen1:31, in actual fact in all Bibles I can find, is AFTER God created mankind in his own image and gave mankind dominion over the earth to care for it. My ESV says "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. Gen 1:26 is where God creates mankind. I assume your Bible puts verse 26 before verse 31.

The Greek word used in the account of the healing of the Centurion's slave in both Matt 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10 uses the word "pais" for the slave. Pais can in fact mean a slave, but the word for a common slave is "doulous". The Centurion, and others in Luke, describe this slave as "pais". Pais is also used for "son" or "child", but during Jesus' time Roman soldiers were prohibited from marrying, so this wasn't the Centurions son. Secular literature at the time is rife with references to one's pais, even when the person wasn't a slave, translated into English from this Greek secular literatuve as "lover", "boy" or "lover boy" in sexual context. Luke notes the very special bond between the Centurion and this slave with the word pais. I won't go into all the evidence that slaves were not treated well, a sick slave was often simply put to death or put out of the house to die of starvation. That's how anyone, including Jews, would treat sick household slaves. This pais was special.

There is ample secular literature of the time which uses pais that is described as so special to the owner as this one was to the Centurion, where there is ALSO accompanying sexual phrases. This was common knowledge, and is how Jesus would understand the Centurion when he talked about this pais in contrast to his other doulous (slaves). Luke uses the same distinction. Even anti-gay theologian Gagnon acknowledges this common use of the word to mean "younger male lover", but argues that in Matt and Luke it means "son". Well, the prohibition against Roman soldiers marrying and having children was not changed until 192 AD, so that takes care at that attempt to explain away the meaning of the word into another use of the word. Jesus did not reprimand this person, and highlighted his faith in God being able to heal his lover. He did not admonish the Centurion to "go and sin no more" as he did with some other healings.

Of course, you are correct that Matthew and Luke could have been using the pais word in a different way than everyone else understood it, but that is highly improbable, they would write using words that would be clearly understood by those alive at the time.

You can look at Matt 19:3-12 where Jesus describes 3 types of eunuchs who are part of God's creation and not subject to what he said about heterosexual marriage and divorce. "Eunuch" was a word used for those who did not procreate with women. These 3 types are used in Roman and Jewish law, Jesus used the exact same terms, indicating his familiarity with these laws. "Born eunuch" (also translated "eunuchs from birth", or "eunchs who have been so from birth" and sometimes in Jewish writings "enuchs of the sun" (an Egytian phrase) are clearly described by the Roman and Jewish rabbinical writing as what we would call homosexuals today. Furthermore, from 100 years before Jesus, there are existing rabbinical writings about Gentiles who converted to Judaism, but who continued their practices of "sporting with boys", and 100% of these writings conclude that "sporting with boys" did not violate Leviticus 18:22 as long as it was not part of a pagan temple ceremony and as long as there was not anal penetrationl. Jesus was a "rabbi", which means he was thoroughly familiar with rabbinical writings, and he did not contradict them whatsoever. And the first Gentile convert to Christianity was the Ethiopian eunuch, reading a passage of Isaiah commonly understood to refer to homosexuals, when taken in context with the surronding text.

So, no, I do not think Jesus was unfamiliar with terms in the common language at the time, he understood the Centurion had a sexual relationship with a young slave with whom he was in love and healed the slave without any comment other than the Centurion's great faith, and he offered homosexual relationships as part of God's creation as alternative to heterosexual marriage when he pointed out that there were "eunuchs from birth" and not just heterosexuals. "Let the one who is able to receive this (message) receive it." (Matt 19:12)