Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

Limited Atonement is truth because Christ died only for Gods elect, or Sheep Jn 10:11

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

And of course the Sheep doesnt mean the whole human race or everyone without exception. It does refer to them which are the elect according to the foreknowledge of God 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The sprinkling of the Blood refers to His death, when He shed His Blood for them. 11

 

[Brightfame52]

The death of Christ is limited to the sons or children of God Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Because they are children God sends the Spirit in their hearts to seal them Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

But all will not receive the Spirit Jn 14:16-17

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Receiving the Spirit is proof Christ died for you. Acts 10:47


Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Christ die for those represented in this world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Jesus Christ die for them which its written Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Obtained Eternal Redemption for us !

Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

We can perceive from this scripture that Christ could not have shed His Redeeming Blood for all mankind, since those He did shed His Own Blood For [His Church Acts 20:28] He for them obtained Eternal Redemption.

This Eternal Redemption isn't conditioned upon mans freewill or man having to make a decision, its totally based upon Christs Own Blood. This is something Christ had success in, what He set out to do. The word obtained in our text is the word heyriskō and it means:

I find, learn, discover, especially after searching.

And its in the middle voice, meaning its obtained for Himself and His Body whom He's One with Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

And this what He obtained redemption lytrōsis

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

And we know all men without exception have not been delivered from the penalty of sin ! So Christ could not have shed His Own Blood for them ! 12

 

[MaryB08]

Now, let's get one thing understood....You CANNOT take one single verse and build an entire doctrine on it. You CANNOT understand the Word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, yet so many Christians insist in leaving Him behind and even trying to teach Him....Jesus died for ALL people not a select group.

Ephesians 1, John 6, Romans 9, (and for fun John 8)

I so want to teach you Scripture because you're wrong. There are many, many, many Scriptures that prove you wrong.
I pray in tongues and have performed miracle healings... God's Holy Spirit is in me. Read what I've given you.
And if you still don't believe, seek God and fast and pray. God's people all believe the same thing, and you're not there yet.

 

[MaryB08]

I agree. Titus 3:2 - to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

His sheep hear His voice. You have to hear His voice to follow Him.
John 6, Ephesians 1, Romans 9, (for added fun John 8)

 

[MaryB08]

With all of the literature available it's hard to believe people still hold these Gnostic ideas.

The atonement is not limited in scope. That idea is derived from misunderstanding and misappropriating Scripture. The doctrine of Election pertains to Israel. A person is either in or out, but it's their choice.

His sheep hear His voice. You have to hear His voice to follow Him.
John 6, Ephesians 1, Romans 9, (for added fun John 8)

 

[Butch5]

His sheep hear His voice. You have to hear His voice to follow Him.
John 6, Ephesians 1, Romans 9, (for added fun John 8)

It's kind of hard to hear His voice when He's not here anymore.

 

[MaryB08]

God is the only one who knows all who will be saved and that only after the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven. Everyone (all) is given the opportunity to choose either life or death.

It's kind of hard to hear His voice when He's not here anymore.

He's God. He's everywhere all the time. We're together every day.

How did that Curtis post get there?
Curtis: Read John 6, Ephesians 1, Romans 9 (and for fun John 8)

 

[Butch5]

He's God. He's everywhere all the time. We're together every day.

He's the Son of God, but that's another thread. When Jesus made that statement He was here. He said it to real living people. They literally heard His voice. To take that statement and try to make it metaphorical is to take it out of context, which is exactly what I was talking about in the initial post you quoted. This is how these doctrines are formed, by taking Scripture out of context.

 

[MaryB08]

My point is that abstract discussion of these kinds of technical doctrine issues have very little to do with faithfully following Jesus and so do nothing other than cause petty divisions and distract from pursuing healthy discipleship.

Those who are born of Christ have the same mind. I am shocked that you're so stirred up about embracing the truth of God's plan. How can anything God has done cause you such anxiety that you rage against knowing truth? Jesus is truth, if you have no desire to know truth, how can you give 2 beans about Jesus? His sheep hear His voice. I love the truth. I am so very honored, blessed, relieved, and humbled to finally have the truth. I would die if I couldn't have the truth. And for the truth I was chosen. Relationships with people are not our priority, loving God is our priority. And how do you make disciples if you have no desire for truth. We don't raise disciples in lies. If you don't love the truth don't even try to disciple others. Wow. Maybe you just had a bad day or something... If not, you need to repent while you're able.

 

[Butch5]

Those who are born of Christ have the same mind. I am shocked that you're so stirred up about embracing the truth of God's plan. How can anything God has done cause you such anxiety that you rage against knowing truth? Jesus is truth, if you have no desire to know truth, how can you give 2 beans about Jesus? His sheep hear His voice. I love the truth. I am so very honored, blessed, relieved, and humbled to finally have the truth. I would die if I couldn't have the truth. And for the truth I was chosen. Relationships with people are not our priority, loving God is our priority. And how do you make disciples if you have no desire for truth. We don't raise disciples in lies. If you don't love the truth don't even try to disciple others. Wow. Maybe you just had a bad day or something... If not, you need to repent while you're able.

This has nothing to do with the discussion. It was actually seeking the truth that lead me out of Reformed theology. I could see all of the contradictions between Reformed theology and Scripture. Those contradictions should be a huge red flag for any truth seeker. God doesn't contradict Himself. So, when doctrine contradicts Scripture doctrine is wrong.

 

[MaryB08]

He's the Son of God, but that's another thread. When Jesus made that statement He was here. He said it to real living people. They literally heard His voice. To take that statement and try to make it metaphorical is to take it out of context, which is exactly what I was talking about in the initial post you quoted. This is how these doctrines are formed, by taking Scripture out of context.

You're uninformed and full of arrogance and boloney. Shame on you! You have NO experience with Jesus, and you don't know Scripture.
Jesus and our Father come to those who are His; they are with me every day exactly like God promised us. I live every day with Jesus. Clearly you've yet to meet Him. Jesus is God the Son, but still GOD; just as the Father is God just as the Holy Spirit is God. Stop with your horrendous ugly lies and your false doctrine.

 

[Butch5]

You're uninformed and full of arrogance and boloney. Shame on you! You have NO experience with Jesus, and you don't know Scripture.
Jesus and our Father come to those who are His; they are with me every day exactly like God promised us. I live every day with Jesus. Clearly you've yet to meet Him. Jesus is God the Son, but still GOD; just as the Father is God just as the Holy Spirit is God. Stop with your horrendous ugly lies and your false doctrine.

Since you've jumped to ad hominem so quickly it suggests to me that you have no real argument to make. Rather you're expressing your feelings.

However, before you accuse people of things you should make sure you know what you're talking about. As people here can attest, I'm not arrogant and I'm not uninformed.

 

[MaryB08]

This has nothing to do with the discussion. It was actually seeking the truth that lead me out of Reformed theology. I could see all of the contradictions between Reformed theology and Scripture. Those contradictions should be a huge red flag for any truth seeker. God doesn't contradict Himself. So, when doctrine contradicts Scripture doctrine is wrong.

The Holy Spirit leads us to all truth. Without His help you cannot navigate Scripture.

 

[Butch5]

The Holy Spirit leads us to all truth. Without His help you cannot navigate Scripture.

Then why don't all Chrsitians believe the same things?

 

[MaryB08]

Since you've jumped to ad hominem so quickly it suggests to me that you have no real argument to make. Rather you're expressing your feelings.

However, before you accuse people of things you should make sure you know what you're talking about. As people here can attest, I'm not arrogant and I'm not uninformed.

You picked a fight with God's Holy Spirit. No opinion of flesh and blood matters at this point. God has clearly blown your skirt over your head and exposed what's underneath. Take my responses to someone whose saved (born again) and let them explain the truth of Scripture, which I quoted, to you. Thank You Jesus for exposing this person. PS: You are arrogant and uninformed. Repent while you are able.

 

[MaryB08]

Then why don't all Chrsitians believe the same things?

You must be born again.
The Holy Spirit leads us to ALL truth. It's written.
10 Virgins = 5 wise and 5 foolish. Half of the "church" is a fraud.
Half of the church is NOT born again.
ASK JESUS!

 

[Butch5]

You must be born again.
The Holy Spirit leads us to ALL truth. It's written.
10 Virgins = 5 wise and 5 foolish. Half of the "church" is a fraud.
Half of the church is NOT born again.
ASK JESUS!

You didn't answer the question. Another huge red flag.