Limited atonement !

[Butch5]

Christs Death is limited to them that are the called !

Heb 9:12-15

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

It was Gods purpose in Christs Death that certain people might receive Eternal Life, or Eternal Inheritance, not everyone, but " they which are called" !

Now the called in Vs 15 are a specific, definite people since the writer uses the definite article for the called ! All without exception are not the called.

There are a specific group of people in this world that the called, Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

See " them that are the called here" must be distinguished from all others

1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

See how the called here are distinguished, set apart from the others, whether they be jews of gentiles, the called are set apart people from the rest of the world. Paul writes to the same Corinithians earlier 1 Cor 1:1-2
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The called have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, that is set apart from the rest of the world, and so it is for all for whom Christ died. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body/death of Jesus Christ/ once for all.13

The called in the context of Romans 8 are Israel. Calvinism takes all of these passages out of context and strings them together to try take the Bible say something that it doesn't say.

 

[Brightfame52]

The called in the context of Romans 8 are Israel. Calvinism takes all of these passages out of context and strings them together to try take the Bible say something that it doesn't say.

Its actually the Church, the Body of Christ.

 

[Butch5]

N

Its actually the Church, the Body of Christ.

No, it's actually Isrsel. Read the context. Paul is speaking to the Jews

 

[Brightfame52]

Salvation has always been limited to Gods Elect, Yea even the Eternal Salvation in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory. 2 Tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This compliments the OT annoucement Isa 46:13

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Salvation is solely for Israel, Gods Elect from out of the jews and Gentiles.14

 

[Brightfame52]

N

No, it's actually Isrsel. Read the context. Paul is speaking to the Jews

Same thing, the Church the Body of Christ is Israel Spiritually, the nation was just a picture, a shadow, a figure. Salvation has always been limited to the Church. See what the Mystery was, that Gods True Israel was comprised of people of all nations Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Christs Death is limited to them that are the called !

Heb 9:12-15

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

It was Gods purpose in Christs Death that certain people might receive Eternal Life, or Eternal Inheritance, not everyone, but " they which are called" !

Now the called in Vs 15 are a specific, definite people since the writer uses the definite article for the called ! All without exception are not the called.

There are a specific group of people in this world that the called, Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

See " them that are the called here" must be distinguished from all others

1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

See how the called here are distinguished, set apart from the others, whether they be jews of gentiles, the called are set apart people from the rest of the world. Paul writes to the same Corinithians earlier 1 Cor 1:1-2
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The o hae been sanctified in Christ Jesus, that is set apart from the rest of the world, and so it is for all for whom Christ died. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body/death of Jesus Christ/ once for all.13

So...how does your little soliloquy line up with these verses?


Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
​

1 Timothy 2:3-4 3 This is what God, our Deliverer, regards as good; this is what meets his approval.​

4 He wants all humanity to be delivered and come to full knowledge of the truth.

Maybe you want to look at this again? The words "the called" referrs to humans...Satan and his demons are not 'the called' Satans creations are not 'the called'

​

 

[Butch5]

Same thing, the Church the Body of Christ is Israel Spiritually, the nation was just a picture, a shadow, a figure. Salvation has always been limited to the Church. See what the Mystery was, that Gods True Israel was comprised of people of all nations Gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Except we're not talking about Galatians. We're talking about Romans 8.

The context of that passage is the Jews. He turns his attention to the Jewish believers at 2:17.

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, (Rom 2:17 KJV)

He continues that discussion.

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (Rom 4:1 KJV)

He he says our father according to the flesh. The fleshly offspring are the Jews.

He continues.

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? (Rom 7:1 KJV)

He's speaking to those who know the Law. Again, that would be the Jews.

He carries this discussion through to 11:13.

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Rom 11:13 KJV)

Here, at chapter 11 verse 13 he begins to address the Gentiles. All that he said between 2:17 and 11:12 pertains to the Jews. They are the ones God foreknew.

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.


Here Paul tells us that thr Israelites are the people God foreknew.

Romans 8:28-30 is not an order of salvation. It's a statement of what God had done previously for those who loved Him. They would be men like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc.

Reformed theology takes this and other passages completely out if context to create a theology found nowhere in Scripture.

 

[Butch5]

Salvation has always been limited to Gods Elect, Yea even the Eternal Salvation in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory. 2 Tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This compliments the OT annoucement Isa 46:13

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Salvation is solely for Israel, Gods Elect from out of the jews and Gentiles.14

Notice the passage you quoted from 2 Timothy. It says they "may" obtain it. It doesn't say they will.

The problem with your argument is that you're assuming God chooses individual people. He Chose Israel.

 

[KingJ]

Salvation has always been limited to Gods Elect, Yea even the Eternal Salvation in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory. 2 Tim 2:10

Incorrect. Context of the elect is in 2 Tim 2:5-6. Athlete does not get a crown unless he competes, hard working farmer receives a share of the crops.

Thus, the elect would be those who take Christianity seriously and compete for a crown. IE The "whomsoever".

This compliments the OT annoucement Isa 46:13

I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your prior verse. It is a passage speaking to Jews. You and I are not Jews. We are in a new covenant with God Jer 31:31-34.

Also note it is zero support for Calvinsim. We see in verse 12 a repeat of the need to repent and heed Gods ways, not be stubborn hearted and "far" from His righteousness.

Salvation is solely for Israel, Gods Elect from out of the jews and Gentiles.14

Then why did God ask Jonah to preach to Nineveh? A non Jewish city.

Calvisim is so cringe. Reading your posts is like watching fake news.

 

[KingJ]

Christs Death is limited to them that are the called !

Heb 9:12-15

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

It was Gods purpose in Christs Death that certain people might receive Eternal Life, or Eternal Inheritance, not everyone, but " they which are called" !

Now the called in Vs 15 are a specific, definite people since the writer uses the definite article for the called ! All without exception are not the called.

There are a specific group of people in this world that the called, Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

See " them that are the called here" must be distinguished from all others

1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

See how the called here are distinguished, set apart from the others, whether they be jews of gentiles, the called are set apart people from the rest of the world. Paul writes to the same Corinithians earlier 1 Cor 1:1-2
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The called have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, that is set apart from the rest of the world, and so it is for all for whom Christ died. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body/death of Jesus Christ/ once for all.13

Any person can Google Calvinism and the verses cherry picked to support it.

If you are not going to ''discuss'' the topic on a ''discussion'' forum, then we need to ask the mods to block this thread.

I asked you a question in post #110 which you have ignored.

I have another two for you: Answer with an A or B please.

1. Is partiality A. good or B. evil?
2. Is God A. good or B. evil?

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ didnt die for all mankind, but He died for them that had their names written in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Lk 10:20

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. 16

 

[Brightfame52]

So...how does your little soliloquy line up with these verses?


Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life​

​

1 Timothy 2:3-4 3 This is what God, our Deliverer, regards as good; this is what meets his approval.​

4 He wants all humanity to be delivered and come to full knowledge of the truth.

Maybe you want to look at this again? The words "the called" referrs to humans...Satan and his demons are not 'the called' Satans creations are not 'the called'

​

They the called

 

[Brightfame52]

Except we're not talking about Galatians. We're talking about Romans 8.

The context of that passage is the Jews. He turns his attention to the Jewish believers at 2:17.

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, (Rom 2:17 KJV)

He continues that discussion.

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (Rom 4:1 KJV)

He he says our father according to the flesh. The fleshly offspring are the Jews.

He continues.

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? (Rom 7:1 KJV)

He's speaking to those who know the Law. Again, that would be the Jews.

He carries this discussion through to 11:13.

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (Rom 11:13 KJV)

Here, at chapter 11 verse 13 he begins to address the Gentiles. All that he said between 2:17 and 11:12 pertains to the Jews. They are the ones God foreknew.

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.


Here Paul tells us that thr Israelites are the people God foreknew.

Romans 8:28-30 is not an order of salvation. It's a statement of what God had done previously for those who loved Him. They would be men like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc.

Reformed theology takes this and other passages completely out if context to create a theology found nowhere in Scripture.

Im talking about Limited atonement.

 

[Brightfame52]

Notice the passage you quoted from 2 Timothy. It says they "may" obtain it. It doesn't say they will.

The problem with your argument is that you're assuming God chooses individual people. He Chose Israel.

Again Salvation has always been limited to some, Israel

 

[Brightfame52]

Incorrect. Context of the elect is in 2 Tim 2:5-6. Athlete does not get a crown unless he competes, hard working farmer receives a share of the crops.

Thus, the elect would be those who take Christianity seriously and compete for a crown. IE The "whomsoever".



This has absolutely nothing to do with your prior verse. It is a passage speaking to Jews. You and I are not Jews. We are in a new covenant with God Jer 31:31-34.

Also note it is zero support for Calvinsim. We see in verse 12 a repeat of the need to repent and heed Gods ways, not be stubborn hearted and "far" from His righteousness.



Then why did God ask Jonah to preach to Nineveh? A non Jewish city.

Calvisim is so cringe. Reading your posts is like watching fake news.

You havent disproved anything, Salvation in Christ Jesus is for the elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they[the elect] may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[Brightfame52]

Any person can Google Calvinism and the verses cherry picked to support it.

If you are not going to ''discuss'' the topic on a ''discussion'' forum, then we need to ask the mods to block this thread.

I asked you a question in post #110 which you have ignored.

I have another two for you: Answer with an A or B please.

1. Is partiality A. good or B. evil?
2. Is God A. good or B. evil?

Only some are called to the promised Inheritance, Gods elect, the seed of abraham

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

They the called

I'm sorry..I do not understand your answer.

 

[Butch5]

Im talking about Limited atonement.

Right. And I'm pointing out that the passages you're using to try to support that erroneous teaching are being taken out of context.

 

[Butch5]

Again Salvation has always been limited to some, Israel

No, it hasn't been. It's open to all who choose it. If a person rejects it, that's their prerogative. However, the invitation is open to all. Jesus said,

This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

He said if He was lifted up He would draw "ALL" to Himslef. He didn't say some or a few, He said all.

 

[Butch5]

Christ didnt die for all mankind, but He died for them that had their names written in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Lk 10:20

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. 16

You're reading that incorrectly. It's not the names that werre in the book from the foundation of the world. The book is from the foundation of the world.

The phrase translated, "from the foundation of the world," can be grammatically applied to either the names written or the book. The context determines which it is. Since you didn't exist at the foundation of the world you didn't have a name to be written in the book. We see that the book is mentioned in the OT also. Thus it's thr book, not the names, that are from thr foundation of the world