Mid-tribulation

David777 · Feb 18, 2012

Hello Mike.

Are you sure?

Eric E Stahl · Feb 20, 2012

David777 said:
Who is the restrainer?

Who is taken out of the way?

David,

Jon16-17 tells us that the comforter or Holy Spirit who would come and indwell the believers would reprove the world of sin. The true Christians are the salt and light Matthew 5:13-16 We are to preserve the world. We will be taken to heaven and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way so the antichrist can come to power.

David777 · Feb 21, 2012

Hello all.

Revelations 12:7-9

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,
and the dragon and his angels fought back.

8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan,
who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The great dragon is only an angel, what does it take to restrain an angel?

David777 · Feb 21, 2012

Hello all.

Jesus takes Jesus out of the way?

Eric E Stahl · Feb 21, 2012

David777 said:
Revelations 12:7-9

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,
and the dragon and his angels fought back.

8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan,
who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The great dragon is only an angel, what does it take to restrain an angel?

kevinlb63 · Feb 21, 2012

Pertaining to the restraining here in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Isaiah 63:10
King James Version (KJV)
the loard {holy Spirit:}
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his {holy Spirit:} therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? {where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?}
12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, {the Spirit of the LORD} caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
Isaiah 59:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy
Genesis 6:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 And the LORD said, {My spirit shall not always strive with man,} {for that he also is flesh:} yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
the end conclusion is the restrainer is ? god! lets keep looking.
restrainer or He who will let
lets look
(1) The word katechon ("restrainer") is a present participle in verses 6 and 7, and both refer to the same reality.
(2) Judging from his statement, "and now you know what is holding him back," Paul's readers must have already known what the restrainer is.
(3) This concept is apparently found nowhere else in Greek theology of the end of world writings.
(4) The meaning of restrainer must be understood from its normal usage.
(5) The participle in both verses has no compliment; that is, no direct object to complete the thought. We must determine for ourselves what that direct object is.
(6) The restraining force is presently active (at least when Paul wrote the letter, cf.v.7).
(7) The restrainer has a temporal limitation on its present activity (cf.v.7, "until...").
(8) The restrainer somehow stands in relationship to the lawless one.
(9) The mystery of lawlessness is active in at least a part of the same period as the katechon.
(10) After this letter, the concept of the restrainer apparently disappears from Christian teaching.
(11) An individual is involved.
With these raw facts in view, and with the critical analysis, or interpretation procedure to guide us,
we can begin to uncover the true identity of the restrainer and to understand Paul's message in 2 Thessalonians 2: for the church today.
Furthermore, this interpretation fits all of the "certain facts" which Best suggested we know about the restrainer. Let's go over that list right now.
First, the two participles in verses 6 and 7 both refer to the same reality. The neuter participle refers to those events which stand in the way of [christ] coming and the [masculine!] participle refers to that individual whose revelation must precede the day of christ.
Second, Paul's readers did know what the restrainer was. Paul had carefully instructed them about what the Messiah said must happen before his parousia.
Third, Best thought that this concept apparently is not found elsewhere. But the events before the Messiah's coming were well known in the 1st century church, though this particular word (katechon)(restrainer) may not have been used to describe this phenomenon.
Fourth, we have used the normal meaning of the word(restrainer).
Fifth, although the participle has no compliment, we were able to discover by the context what that implied direct object is.
Sixth, the fact that the full manifestation of lawlessness has not yet reached its climax suggests that the restrainer is still active. That restrainer will only cease to restrain when the lawless one is revealed.
Seventh, the restrainer does, as we have just explained, have a temporal limitation.
Eighth, the relationship between the lawless one and the restrainer is one of identity.
Ninth, the mystery of lawlessness and the restrainer are active in the same period. The mystery of lawlessness will reach its climax when the restrainer is revealed.
Tenth, although the concept of the restrainer apparently disappears after this letter, it only seems this way, because the word (restrainer) was never used again to describe this hindering effect.
And finally, an [individual] is involved.
The lawless one is the central figure in those events which must happen before the Messiah will return!.
the conclusion is being tought that it is the {apostasy!}and that the other {holy spitit} that is taken out of the way!
definition of apostasy {abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed;}
{a total desertion of departure from one's faith.} So in this conclusion and The mistranslation!
because the word {He} or the Masculine HE..is Ignored lets use the scripture 2 Thessalonians 2:
7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only [he] who now letteth will let,
until [he] be taken out of the way! the (restrainer). The end result is below.

Matthew 24:36
King James Version (KJV)
36: But of that day and hour knoweth [no man], no, [not the angels] of heaven, but [my Father only]!!!!

the restraining force! is the power of God!!!. The power of God is that force!
which is holding back the revelation of the lawless one! In fact!.

lecoop · Feb 21, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
Pertaining to the restraining here in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Isaiah 63:10
King James Version (KJV)
the loard {holy Spirit:}
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his {holy Spirit:} therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? {where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?}
12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, {the Spirit of the LORD} caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
Isaiah 59:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy
Genesis 6:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 And the LORD said, {My spirit shall not always strive with man,} {for that he also is flesh:} yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
the end conclusion is the restrainer is ? god! lets keep looking.
restrainer or He who will let
lets look
(1) The word katechon ("restrainer") is a present participle in verses 6 and 7, and both refer to the same reality.
(2) Judging from his statement, "and now you know what is holding him back," Paul's readers must have already known what the restrainer is.
(3) This concept is apparently found nowhere else in Greek theology of the end of world writings.
(4) The meaning of restrainer must be understood from its normal usage.
(5) The participle in both verses has no compliment; that is, no direct object to complete the thought. We must determine for ourselves what that direct object is.
(6) The restraining force is presently active (at least when Paul wrote the letter, cf.v.7).
(7) The restrainer has a temporal limitation on its present activity (cf.v.7, "until...").
(8) The restrainer somehow stands in relationship to the lawless one.
(9) The mystery of lawlessness is active in at least a part of the same period as the katechon.
(10) After this letter, the concept of the restrainer apparently disappears from Christian teaching.
(11) An individual is involved.
With these raw facts in view, and with the critical analysis, or interpretation procedure to guide us,
we can begin to uncover the true identity of the restrainer and to understand Paul's message in 2 Thessalonians 2: for the church today.
Furthermore, this interpretation fits all of the "certain facts" which Best suggested we know about the restrainer. Let's go over that list right now.
First, the two participles in verses 6 and 7 both refer to the same reality. The neuter participle refers to those events which stand in the way of [christ] coming and the [masculine!] participle refers to that individual whose revelation must precede the day of christ.
Second, Paul's readers did know what the restrainer was. Paul had carefully instructed them about what the Messiah said must happen before his parousia.
Third, Best thought that this concept apparently is not found elsewhere. But the events before the Messiah's coming were well known in the 1st century church, though this particular word (katechon)(restrainer) may not have been used to describe this phenomenon.
Fourth, we have used the normal meaning of the word(restrainer).
Fifth, although the participle has no compliment, we were able to discover by the context what that implied direct object is.
Sixth, the fact that the full manifestation of lawlessness has not yet reached its climax suggests that the restrainer is still active. That restrainer will only cease to restrain when the lawless one is revealed.
Seventh, the restrainer does, as we have just explained, have a temporal limitation.
Eighth, the relationship between the lawless one and the restrainer is one of identity.
Ninth, the mystery of lawlessness and the restrainer are active in the same period. The mystery of lawlessness will reach its climax when the restrainer is revealed.
Tenth, although the concept of the restrainer apparently disappears after this letter, it only seems this way, because the word (restrainer) was never used again to describe this hindering effect.
And finally, an [individual] is involved.
The lawless one is the central figure in those events which must happen before the Messiah will return!.
the conclusion is being tought that it is the {apostasy!}and that the other {holy spitit} that is taken out of the way!
definition of apostasy {abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed;}
{a total desertion of departure from one's faith.} So in this conclusion and The mistranslation!
because the word {He} or the Masculine HE..is Ignored lets use the scripture 2 Thessalonians 2:
7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only [he] who now letteth will let,
until [he] be taken out of the way! the (restrainer). The end result is below.

Matthew 24:36
King James Version (KJV)
36: But of that day and hour knoweth [no man], no, [not the angels] of heaven, but [my Father only]!!!!

the restraining force! is the power of God!!!. The power of God is that force!
which is holding back the revelation of the lawless one! In fact!.

good start, Kevin, but not the conclusion. Something is "taken out of the way" as by an exterior force. WHO would take God's power out of the way?

The answer is that it IS God's power, as you suggest, but it is God's power WORKING THROUGH THE CHURCH. God has all power - we all know that. But God gave His authority on this planet to the CHURCH. When God wishes to move, He uses His body of believers on the earth. In particular, it is His power through the ANOINTING upon the believers, using the Power for God and the Authority of the believer.

So when the church is "taken out of the way" (Done by and exterior force) the anointing Power of God is also taken out of the way.

Coop

kevinlb63 · Feb 23, 2012

lecoop said:
good start, Kevin, but not the conclusion. Something is "taken out of the way" as by an exterior force. WHO would take God's power out of the way?

The answer is that it IS God's power, as you suggest, but it is God's power WORKING THROUGH THE CHURCH. God has all power - we all know that. But God gave His authority on this planet to the CHURCH. When God wishes to move, He uses His body of believers on the earth. In particular, it is His power through the ANOINTING upon the believers, using the Power for God and the Authority of the believer.

So when the church is "taken out of the way" (Done by and exterior force) the anointing Power of God is also taken out of the way.

Coop

read all of this not part of it!!!!
So when the [church is "taken out of the way"] (Done by and exterior force) the [anointing Power of God is also taken out of the way.]
the statement you made above is what! god meant!!!!! and if any one adds or takes away! you add that the [church is "taken out of the way"] when it is not! and that the [anointing Power of God ]is [also] taken out of the way.] that is blasphemy!!!! God said he would NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.GOD DONT LIE. and you inply the the holy spirit will be taken out of the way!! is more blasphemy!! if the holy spirit is removed! WE cant be removed because the spirit is in us! as christians! SO your statement is blasphemy!! AND any one who states it!. jesus said no one knows not even the angels but my father only! GOD is the only restraining force. now for some scripture!
revelation 14: the below is in cronilogical order and is the second resurection!!!! not the third or forth! and it is not a pre rapture! keep reading!!!
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10[The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,] which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and [in the presence of the Lamb:]
11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12Here[ is the patience of the saints:] [here are they that keep the commandments of God,][and the faith of Jesus.]
13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, [Blessed are the [dead which die ][in the Lord from henceforth:] Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; [and their works do follow them. ]
14And I looked, and behold [a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the[ Son of man,] having on his head a [golden crown,]and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to[ him that sat on the cloud,] [Thrust in thy sickle, and reap:] for the [time is come for thee to reap;] for the harvest of the earth is [ripe.]
16And [he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth;] and the earth [was reaped.]
17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; {for her grapes are fully ripe!} this is one event! the End.! and we will be with christ as the bride and see the feast of god! got tells the birds to come and eat the fleash of all! for we all the good and the bad are resurected and our bodys left on the ground for the birds to eat. now i will give you the scripture! to back that up!
rev19:
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the{ fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,} {Come and gather yourselves together unto{ the [supper] of the great God;}
18That ye may eat the flesh of [kings, and the flesh of captains,] and the flesh of[ mighty men,] and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of [all men,] both [free and bond,] [both] [small and great.]

this is all man kind . and the end of the fleashly mankind. that is why it talks about the [sheeps and the goats ] the goats are judged by christ on the spot and cast into the lake of fire.
and we as sheep will be with christ for a thousand years . then satan is let loose again so he can deceive again! GOD want to make sure he get all the {tares} out. and then he will distroy satan and his army. and we will be wit christ and God for ever and ever.

3Let no {man} deceive you by any means: for that day shall {not} come, except there come a [falling away first,] and that man of sin be revealed, [the son of perdition;]

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the [temple of God,] shewing himself that he is God!.
5Remember ye not, that, [when I was yet with you,] I told you these things?
6And now ye know what [withholdeth] that [he] might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity/unrighteousness doth already work: only [he] who now letteth will let, until [he] be taken out of the way.
8And [then shall that Wicked be revealed,] [whom the [Lord ]shall [consume with the spirit of his mouth,] [and shall destroy] with the [brightness of his coming:]
9Even [him,]/jesus!! whose coming is [after] the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [through sanctification of the Spirit ]and belief of the truth:

lecoop · Feb 23, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
read all of this not part of it!!!!
So when the [church is "taken out of the way"] (Done by and exterior force) the [anointing Power of God is also taken out of the way.]
the statement you made above is what! god meant!!!!! and if any one adds or takes away! you add that the [church is "taken out of the way"] when it is not! and that the [anointing Power of God ]is [also] taken out of the way.] that is blasphemy!!!! God said he would NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.GOD DONT LIE. and you inply the the holy spirit will be taken out of the way!! is more blasphemy!! if the holy spirit is removed! WE cant be removed because the spirit is in us! as christians!

Kevin, you are SO confused! OF COURSE the Holy Spirit does not leave us! Of course not! That is WHY HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY! WE LEAVE AND HE LEAVES WITH US!! Hallelujah! He STAYS with us FOREVER!

The Holy Spirit also stays IN the believers LEFT BEHIND. That would include anyone who DENIES the pretrib rapture. It would include all who are lukewarm. The Holy Spirit does not leave them. But they are NOT ANOINTED by Him. Either they refused to obey Acts 1 & 2, or they allowed the anointing to become ineffective, due to being lukewarm.

So in ANY CASE the Holy Spirit does not leave anyone. But He leaves the EARTH WITH Those upon whom He had fallen as the anointing. Kevin, this is not rocket science. Perhaps you need to read Acts 1 & 2 again. Perhaps you need to obey and receive this mighty baptism with the Holy Spirit: the anointing to do the work of the ministry.

SO your statement is blasphemy!! AND any one who states it!. jesus said no one knows not even the angels but my father only! GOD is the only restraining force. now for some scripture!

Again you are confused. You are talking about knowing the day or hour in which Jesus will come. you are right in that: NO ONE but the Father knows - so we are told to WATCH. But ANYONE can know about the anointing that comes upon us, when we obey Acts 1 & 2.
Did you EVER read?

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Kevin, this SAME ANOINTING is available to any one of us that desires it and will OBEY Acts 1 & 2. Kevin, did you notice that Jesus did NO MIGHTY WORKS before He was anointed? All His mighty works were done BY AND THROUGH the anointing.

revelation 14: the below is in cronilogical order and is the second resurection!!!! not the third or forth! and it is not a pre rapture! keep reading!!!
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10[The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,] which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and [in the presence of the Lamb:]
11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12Here[ is the patience of the saints:] [here are they that keep the commandments of God,][and the faith of Jesus.]
13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, [Blessed are the [dead which die ][in the Lord from henceforth:] Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; [and their works do follow them. ]
14And I looked, and behold [a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the[ Son of man,] having on his head a [golden crown,]and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to[ him that sat on the cloud,] [Thrust in thy sickle, and reap:] for the [time is come for thee to reap;] for the harvest of the earth is [ripe.]
16And [he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth;] and the earth [was reaped.]
17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; {for her grapes are fully ripe!} this is one event! the End.! and we will be with christ as the bride and see the feast of god! got tells the birds to come and eat the fleash of all! for we all the good and the bad are resurected and our bodys left on the ground for the birds to eat. now i will give you the scripture! to back that up!
rev19:
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the{ fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,} {Come and gather yourselves together unto{ the [supper] of the great God;}
18That ye may eat the flesh of [kings, and the flesh of captains,] and the flesh of[ mighty men,] and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of [all men,] both [free and bond,] [both] [small and great.]

this is all man kind . and the end of the fleashly mankind. that is why it talks about the [sheeps and the goats ] the goats are judged by christ on the spot and cast into the lake of fire.
and we as sheep will be with christ for a thousand years . then satan is let loose again so he can deceive again! GOD want to make sure he get all the {tares} out. and then he will distroy satan and his army. and we will be wit christ and God for ever and ever.

Kevin, do you imagine that the harvest of humans will be done with a sickle that they used to use back in bible days? Can you not understand, this is shown as symbolic and figurtive? Did you not understand, this is NOT DONE AT THIS TIME, at the midpoint of the week, but it is shown as PROPHECY for what is coming?

Yes, God will CERTAINLY reap, but NOT WITH A SICKLE BLADE. Some of His reaping will be at the battle of Armageddon, about 3 1/2 years AFTER chapter 14. Some will be at the parable of the tares, which will happen at His coming (Rev. 19 - white horse) and some will be at the sheep and goat judgment AFTER His coming.

3Let no {man} deceive you by any means: for that day shall {not} come, except there come a [falling away first,] and that man of sin be revealed, [the son of perdition;]
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the [temple of God,] shewing himself that he is God!.
5Remember ye not, that, [when I was yet with you,] I told you these things?
6And now ye know what [withholdeth] that [he] might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity/unrighteousness doth already work: only [he] who now letteth will let, until [he] be taken out of the way.
8And [then shall that Wicked be revealed,] [whom the [Lord ]shall [consume with the spirit of his mouth,] [and shall destroy] with the [brightness of his coming:]
9Even [him,]/jesus!! whose coming is [after] the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [through sanctification of the Spirit ]and belief of the truth:

Exactly: the BRIDE of Christ is removed or "departed" or "taken out of the way," and WITH THEM goes the Holy Spirit who anointed them. HE STAYS WITH THEM, but THEY GO. They are taken out of the way.

When they are departed, THEN the man of sin is revealed. Good verse, Kevin - but you MUST understand it.

Coop

kevinlb63 · Feb 23, 2012

you told me to read this!!!
1:1 I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach
2 [until the day [he] was taken up to heaven,] after [he] jesus had [given orders by the Holy Spirit [to] the [apostles] he had chosen. The orders where given to the apostles by the Holy Spirit!. jesus dont take orders from the holy spirit the father son and the holy spirit are one!!!
3 To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.
4 While he was with them, he declared, “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait there for what my Father promised, which you heard about from me.
5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
6 So when they had gathered together, they began to ask him, “Lord, is this the time when you are restoring the
[kingdom to Israel?]”

7 [He told them, “You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by [his] [own] [authority.] [god is his own authority he moves when he wants to!!!!!!!!!]
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,

and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts of the earth.”
9 After he had said this, while they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 As they were still staring into the sky while he was going, suddenly two men in white clothing stood near them
11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up
from you into heaven will [come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.”] AS all christains know!!!!!
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mountain called the Mount of Olives (which is near Jerusalem, a [Sabbath] [day’s journey away).]
13 When they had entered Jerusalem, they went to the upstairs room where they were staying. Peter and John, and James,
and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James were there.
14 All these continued together in prayer with one mind, together with the women, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty people) and said,
16 “Brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled that the Holy Spirit foretold through David concerning Judas – who became the guide for those who arrested Jesus –
17 for he was counted as one of us and received a share in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man Judas acquired a field with the reward of his unjust deed, and falling headfirst he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.
19 This became known to all who lived in Jerusalem, so that in their own language they called that field Hakeldama, that is, “Field of Blood.”)
20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, ‘Let his house become deserted, and let there be no one to live in it,’ and ‘Let another take his position of responsibility.’
21 Thus one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time the Lord Jesus associated with us,
22 beginning from his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us – one of these must become a witness of his resurrection together with us.”
23 So they proposed two candidates: Joseph called Barsabbas (also called Justus) and Matthias.
24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all.[ Show us which one of these two you have chosen]
25 to assume the task of this service and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
26 Then they cast lots for them, and the one chosen was Matthias; so he was counted with the eleven apostles.
OK i have read it and understand it there is no mistery here!!!
now for what you said i said..
i never said this!! [You said it!!!] Quote Exactly: the BRIDE of Christ is removed or "departed" or ["taken out of the way,] "your words not the bibles!! and WITH THEM goes the Holy Spirit who anointed them. it dont say thay any where in the bible more of your! doctrin!!

HE STAYS WITH THEM!, but THEY GO.They are taken out of the way!. More of your doctrin!! it is not in the bible!! Here in this statement you wrote! you are grabbing for any thing you can! and all the scriptures you have posted are in your own words! and are not biblical!!!! the resurection of the church!!!when jesus comes back for his bride.
takes place after thing go realey bad! and if you have the scripture to back up your theory If if if you have sound doctrin that proves it!!! post it. post it!!!!!!!.

i made my scripture proof! below!.when jesus says after that is what he means.....

here is what i posted the word of god!

8 And [then shall that Wicked be revealed,] [whom the [Lord ]shall [consume with the spirit of his mouth,] [and shall
destroy] with the [brightness of his coming:]
9 Even [him,]/jesus!! jesus jesus whose coming is [after] after after after] the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders. even jesus whose coming is after the Wicked is revealed and shall [consume with the spirit
of his mouth,] [and shall destroy destroy destroy ] with the [brightness of his coming:] with the [brightness of his coming:] there will be no no no no antichrist after this point.......... there will be no one to persicute! anyone.
after this point.
Now for what you said i was so confused about!
you wrote QUOTE!
Kevin, you are SO confused![ OF COURSE! the [Holy Spirit does not leave us!!] if this is the case i am not confused!!
[Of course not!] That is WHY [HE] IS TAKEN [OUT OF THE WAY!] WE LEAVE AND [HE] LEAVES WITH US!! Hallelujah! [He]
STAYS with us FOREVER! [The Holy Spirit is not a [He] !!!!!!! the holy spirit in a entity!! that lives in us! and can

not!!! be removed unless we deni christ and god!! [the word he is used as the masculine/ male figure jesus christ or God.....] Not the holy spirit the holy spirit is a entity!!.
YOUR QUOTE! [The Holy Spirit also stays IN the believers LEFT BEHIND.]more blasphemy!! more of your doctrin!! your QUOTE!
why would jesus leave any one behind that is a believers!!! and loves him!!! [he] will not leave any believer
behind!!

More! lecoop doctrin.below

That would include [anyone who DENIES the pretrib rapture.] [It would include all who are lukewarm.]
[The Holy Spirit does not leave them.] [But they are NOT ANOINTED by Him.] Either they refused to obey
[Acts 1 & 2,] or they allowed the anointing to become ineffective, due to being lukewarm.
MY QUOTE!! the lukewarm will be spewed out of his mouth! if i was lukewarm i would not be on here 12 hours

a day and thinking of god and christ every hour of the day. i am on fire for christ and the true doctrin!!!!!
MORE of YOUR QUOTES!! So in ANY CASE the Holy Spirit does not leave anyone.
But He leaves the EARTH WITH Those upon whom [He had fallen] what does this mean!!! Those upon whom [He had fallen]

here is what i have come up with!!
i have payed close attention to what you have been posting and i ask you this! are you a converted catholic?
i know with all my heart that there is one one one church gods church and that church does not have athorty! GOD and
CHRIST have the athorty. you QUOTED. the church has the athorty. that is what god and christ is mad about! there are
38.000/ thirty eight thousand!! different christian Denominations each one having its own constitution/ religions.
is your christian Denomination the right one! out of 38.000. christ and GOD are not happy about there church!.
it is only suppose to be ONE church >>>

Brother Mike · Feb 23, 2012

Ummm Kevin??

Kevin:

read all of this not part of it!!!!
So when the [church is "taken out of the way"] (Done by and exterior force) the [anointing Power of God is also taken out of the way.]
the statement you made above is what! god meant!!!!! and if any one adds or takes away! you add that the [church is "taken out of the way"] when it is not! and that the [anointing Power of God ]is [also] taken out of the way.] that is blasphemy!!!! God said he would NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US.GOD DONT LIE. and you inply the the holy spirit will be taken out of the way!! is more blasphemy!! if the holy spirit is removed! WE cant be removed because the spirit is in us! as christians! SO your statement is blasphemy!!

Kevin, you really believe Lecoop is trying to deceive us here? You think he is trying to lie? Could he be a devil??? Or is he posting what he studied and has light on?

Paul said he only knows things in Part. You have full light on everything Kevin?
You must know everything to make these kinds of accusations.

Lecoop:

Kevin, you are SO confused!

Again you are confused. You are talking about knowing the day or hour in which Jesus will come. you are right in that: NO ONE but the Father knows - so we are told to WATCH. But ANYONE can know about the anointing that comes upon us, when we obey Acts 1 & 2.
Did you EVER read?

So, Lecoop, is Kevin confused? Just made all that stuff up? No time in the Word, just posting things as being confused.

What we have here.

I recall me warning you two before about this type of thing. Two smart guys, that can't understand simple instructions. Mighty in the Word, yet no comprehension in the simple things.

So.............. since you ignored me..............

Should I give you each an infraction? Should I ban you two for a few days? Should I just leave another warning in hopes that both of you get some understanding?

I mean, how hard is it to just present scripture, without personally attacking each other?

I know......... You two tell each other sorry, and that you love one another......... otherwise, I am giving each of you a month off.

Your decision needs to be posted in public on this thread, don't make me wait long.

Jesus Is Lord.

lecoop · Feb 24, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
you told me to read this!!!
1:1 I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach
2 [until the day [he] was taken up to heaven,] after [he] jesus had [given orders by the Holy Spirit [to] the [apostles] he had chosen. The orders where given to the apostles by the Holy Spirit!. jesus dont take orders from the holy spirit the father son and the holy spirit are one!!!
3 To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.
4 While he was with them, he declared, “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait there for what my Father promised, which you heard about from me.
5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
6 So when they had gathered together, they began to ask him, “Lord, is this the time when you are restoring the
[kingdom to Israel?]”

7 [He told them, “You are not permitted to know the times or periods that the Father has set by [his] [own] [authority.] [god is his own authority he moves when he wants to!!!!!!!!!]
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,

and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts of the earth.”
9 After he had said this, while they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 As they were still staring into the sky while he was going, suddenly two men in white clothing stood near them
11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up
from you into heaven will [come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.”] AS all christains know!!!!!
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mountain called the Mount of Olives (which is near Jerusalem, a [Sabbath] [day’s journey away).]
13 When they had entered Jerusalem, they went to the upstairs room where they were staying. Peter and John, and James,
and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James were there.
14 All these continued together in prayer with one mind, together with the women, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty people) and said,
16 “Brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled that the Holy Spirit foretold through David concerning Judas – who became the guide for those who arrested Jesus –
17 for he was counted as one of us and received a share in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man Judas acquired a field with the reward of his unjust deed, and falling headfirst he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.
19 This became known to all who lived in Jerusalem, so that in their own language they called that field Hakeldama, that is, “Field of Blood.”)
20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, ‘Let his house become deserted, and let there be no one to live in it,’ and ‘Let another take his position of responsibility.’
21 Thus one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time the Lord Jesus associated with us,
22 beginning from his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us – one of these must become a witness of his resurrection together with us.”
23 So they proposed two candidates: Joseph called Barsabbas (also called Justus) and Matthias.
24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all.[ Show us which one of these two you have chosen]
25 to assume the task of this service and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
26 Then they cast lots for them, and the one chosen was Matthias; so he was counted with the eleven apostles.
OK i have read it and understand it there is no mistery here!!!
now for what you said i said..
i never said this!! [You said it!!!] Quote Exactly: the BRIDE of Christ is removed or "departed" or ["taken out of the way,] "your words not the bibles!! and WITH THEM goes the Holy Spirit who anointed them. it dont say thay any where in the bible more of your! doctrin!!

HE STAYS WITH THEM!, but THEY GO.They are taken out of the way!. More of your doctrin!! it is not in the bible!! Here in this statement you wrote! you are grabbing for any thing you can! and all the scriptures you have posted are in your own words! and are not biblical!!!! the resurection of the church!!!when jesus comes back for his bride.
takes place after thing go realey bad! and if you have the scripture to back up your theory If if if you have sound doctrin that proves it!!! post it. post it!!!!!!!.

i made my scripture proof! below!.when jesus says after that is what he means.....

here is what i posted the word of god!

8 And [then shall that Wicked be revealed,] [whom the [Lord ]shall [consume with the spirit of his mouth,] [and shall
destroy] with the [brightness of his coming:]
9 Even [him,]/jesus!! jesus jesus whose coming is [after] after after after] the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders. even jesus whose coming is after the Wicked is revealed and shall [consume with the spirit
of his mouth,] [and shall destroy destroy destroy ] with the [brightness of his coming:] with the [brightness of his coming:] there will be no no no no antichrist after this point.......... there will be no one to persicute! anyone.
after this point.
Now for what you said i was so confused about!
you wrote QUOTE!
Kevin, you are SO confused![ OF COURSE! the [Holy Spirit does not leave us!!] if this is the case i am not confused!!
[Of course not!] That is WHY [HE] IS TAKEN [OUT OF THE WAY!] WE LEAVE AND [HE] LEAVES WITH US!! Hallelujah! [He]
STAYS with us FOREVER! [The Holy Spirit is not a [He] !!!!!!! the holy spirit in a entity!! that lives in us! and can

not!!! be removed unless we deni christ and god!! [the word he is used as the masculine/ male figure jesus christ or God.....] Not the holy spirit the holy spirit is a entity!!.
YOUR QUOTE! [The Holy Spirit also stays IN the believers LEFT BEHIND.]more blasphemy!! more of your doctrin!! your QUOTE!
why would jesus leave any one behind that is a believers!!! and loves him!!! [he] will not leave any believer
behind!!

More! lecoop doctrin.below

That would include [anyone who DENIES the pretrib rapture.] [It would include all who are lukewarm.]
[The Holy Spirit does not leave them.] [But they are NOT ANOINTED by Him.] Either they refused to obey
[Acts 1 & 2,] or they allowed the anointing to become ineffective, due to being lukewarm.
MY QUOTE!! the lukewarm will be spewed out of his mouth! if i was lukewarm i would not be on here 12 hours

a day and thinking of god and christ every hour of the day. i am on fire for christ and the true doctrin!!!!!
MORE of YOUR QUOTES!! So in ANY CASE the Holy Spirit does not leave anyone.
But He leaves the EARTH WITH Those upon whom [He had fallen] what does this mean!!! Those upon whom [He had fallen]

here is what i have come up with!!
i have payed close attention to what you have been posting and i ask you this! are you a converted catholic?
i know with all my heart that there is one one one church gods church and that church does not have athorty! GOD and
CHRIST have the athorty. you QUOTED. the church has the athorty. that is what god and christ is mad about! there are
38.000/ thirty eight thousand!! different christian Denominations each one having its own constitution/ religions.
is your christian Denomination the right one! out of 38.000. christ and GOD are not happy about there church!.
it is only suppose to be ONE church >>>

So you read Acts 1, and as usually read RIGHT OVER what you have MISSED all your life. Did you read verse 5 and verse 8? Well, did you OBEY it? Have you received exactly what THEY received in Acts 2:4? Did you end up with the same results they did? Or did you just bypass that like so many do? (hint: if you don't pray in tongues, you did not get what they got.)

Now, for the Holy Spirit leaving believers: Did you not yourself say He would NEVER leave them? Why then would you disagree when I said it?
OF COURSE the Holy Spirit will not leave believers. So WHEREVER the believers go, the Holy Spirit will go. Can we agree on this?

"the BRIDE of Christ is removed or "departed" or ["taken out of the way,] "your words not the bibles!! and WITH THEM goes the Holy Spirit who anointed them. it dont say thay any where in the bible more of your! doctrin!! "

OF COURSE it says it. Does it or does it not say "taken out of the way?" Did you not know the several of the first bible translations into English used the English word "departing?" Does not "departing" carry the same connotation as "taken out of the way?" So in fact and in truth, I QUOTED exactly from the bible, both the word "departing" and "taken out of the way. So are you reading your bible with preconceived glasses? Please, TAKE THEM OFF, and understand what you read! It is the anointing [Holy Spirit] upon the believers that restrains the man of sin from being revealed. When the Bride leaves, SO DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT within and upon them. Why on earth is this so difficult for you? Preconceived glasses again!

"HE STAYS WITH THEM!, but THEY GO.They are taken out of the way!. More of your doctrin!!"

Once again, DOES IT OR DOES IT NOT SAY, "taken out of the way?"
Does God say or does He not say "I will never leave you nor forsake you?" PLEASE take off your preconceived glasses! Did you not read 1 Thes. 4:17? Are the dead in Christ and those that are alive "taken?" And when they are taken, are they not "out of the way?" OF COURSE THEY ARE, for they are taken to heaven. This is not difficult! A 5th grader could get this!

"And [then shall that Wicked be revealed,] [whom the [Lord ]shall [consume with the spirit of his mouth,] [and shall
destroy] with the [brightness of his coming:]"

"Then" WHEN? When the Bride is "taken out of the way!" THAT is when.

9 Even [him,]/jesus!! jesus jesus whose coming is [after] after after after] the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders.

Please read this verse in these translations:

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,New Living Translation (©2007)
This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.
English Standard Version (©2001)
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

International Standard Version (©2008)
The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous signs, lying wonders,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For the coming of that one is in the activity of Satan in all power, signs and false wonders,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies.

Do you find the word "after" here? Can you not understand that in the King James the word "after" is not being used as a chronological word?

"i made my scripture proof! below!.when jesus says after that is what he means....." Except now you should know that Jesus did not use that word, nor did He mean that word.

"[The Holy Spirit is not a [He] !!!!!!! the holy spirit in a entity!! that lives in us! and can

not!!! be removed unless we deni christ and god!! [the word he is used as the masculine/ male figure jesus christ or God.....] Not the holy spirit the holy spirit is a entity!!."

Rambling like this PROVES you are confused. Do you imagine the Holy Spirit is a SHE? OF COURSE He is a He! He is GOD. (Or do you imagine God is a she?) Do you now not believe they are ONE GOD? The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT of God, but IS GOD, just like my spirit IS ME, and your spirit IS YOU. So are you calling God an "entity?"

"why would jesus leave any one behind that is a believers!!! and loves him!!! [he] will not leave any believer
behind!!"

Now I KNOW you are confused. What did Jesus say He would do with those lukewarm?

What will He do with liars? What will He do with fornicators? What will he do with unrepentant sinners that have been born again? (Yes, born again believers SIN.)

All these kinds of believes WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

Coop

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

no it does not say the bride is["taken out of the way,]

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

Rambling like this PROVES you are confused. Do you imagine the Holy Spirit is a SHE? OF COURSE He is a He! He is GOD. (Or do you imagine God is a she?) Do you now not believe they are ONE GOD? The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT of God, but IS GOD, just like my spirit IS ME, and your spirit IS YOU. So are you calling God an "entity?"

this is what i said earlier in one of my post and you said i was wroung. and confused
that god and the holy spirit were one and and that it would be god that stept aside so that jesus could get his bride. again you said i was confused.

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

Now I KNOW you are confused. What did Jesus say He would do with those lukewarm?

i tould you he would spue them out of his mouth! youj ust did not read what i wrote back.

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

Can you not understand that in the King James the word "after" is not being used as a chronological word?

here is proof that it is chronological
2 thessalonians 2
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the [Lord shall consume] with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his [coming:]
9Even[ him,] whose [coming] is[ after ]the working of[ Satan ]with all power and signs and lying wonders,
there is your proof the word of god dont lie the him is jesus!

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

and there was the word after in all the above translations
English Standard Version (©2001)
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
International Standard Version (©2008
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995 all of these transletions have over 100.000 words removed and that is why the word after is not there! why would you want a bible that had words took out of it.

kevinlb63 · Feb 24, 2012

lecoop i understand now how I misunderstood you on a lot of your quotes
we ars using defferent bibles that couses confusion all of those other translation
have more than one hundred thousand words took out of them. that is like taking out the book of revelation out and throwing it away. just remember adding to the word get the plagues added to you and taking away gets you took out of the book of life. and i am not trying to be smart. Coop i have been studying the bible for 26+ years i cant get the loard out of my mind i think of him every day. almos 24-7 if i dont have the holy spirit with me i dont think i would be like this all the time. i love the loard so much
he gave me two beautiful guirls and a good wife. we have been together for 21 years.i am only 50 years old . and i know i have a long way to go but i will stick to my kjv it is the closest thing for me to the real word. i dont want a bible that has all those words taken out. seams we are both on fire! but i am sticking to what i belive and you can stick to what you belive. we both belive in christ so we both will go to heaven. no matter when he comes.

lecoop · Feb 24, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
no it does not say the bride is["taken out of the way,]

OK, then explain to us WHO IS "taken out of the way."

Your answer MUST answer to the theme of the passage: the gathering of the believers.

Coop

lecoop · Feb 24, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
Rambling like this PROVES you are confused. Do you imagine the Holy Spirit is a SHE? OF COURSE He is a He! He is GOD. (Or do you imagine God is a she?) Do you now not believe they are ONE GOD? The Holy Spirit is the SPIRIT of God, but IS GOD, just like my spirit IS ME, and your spirit IS YOU. So are you calling God an "entity?"

this is what i said earlier in one of my post and you said i was wroung. and confused
that god and the holy spirit were one and and that it would be god that stept aside so that jesus could get his bride. again you said i was confused.

You are STILL confused: God does NOT "step aside." He take the bride "out of the way," and in doing so, the Holy Spirit anointing ON the Bride."

If you believe this is just God moving out of the way, He would not have written "TAKEN out of the way." And in your theory, the THEME of the passage is lost. So clearly that is NOT the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit.

What is God telling us TODAY about this? Since we are not allowed to post links, you will have to find it on your own. God has been dictating letters to His church.

"Imagine when the LORD removes the bride to safety and she possesses the fullness of the HOLY SPIRIT, what darkness there will be on the earth. The massive lukewarm church will remain behind but the true church of CHRIST: the bride, functioning by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT, the RESTRAINER, will be removed out of the earth."

"THERE WILL NOT BE MORE REPENTANCE, NO TIME TO SEEK ME, BECAUSE I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY PRAYER, GRACE WILL HAVE BEEN TAKEN AND MY HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE NO MORE ON EARTH. THE ENEMY WILL TAKE CONTROL AND YOU WILL GNASH YOUR TEETH AND WAIL IN HEART, TORMENT, AND BROKENNESS. "

We are living in the "age of Grace." When it ends with the rapture, what comes next? It seems that the earth will then be just as it was before the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was sent. Can we find any verse anywhere that promises the Holy Spirit will STAY past the age of Grace? Can you find any verse any where that tells us people can be "born again" during the 70th week? It seems NOT. They will come to God the same way people came to God under the Old Covenant. Can you understand now, why those will be SO DIFFICULT for those that believe in God? Can you understand why God wants us all to take His planned way of escape? God's plan is that ALL believers are taken out of the world before these days come. Sadly, though, many will remain, too hard of heart, lukewarm, or living in sin.

Coop

Welcome!

Mid-tribulation

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Members Online

Trending content

Newest members

Stay Connected