Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[Bill]

Well let me ask you about that....When Jesus returns, he'll be on the Earth for the next thousand years....What are we doing in the air? Why don't we meet Him on Earth...The tens of thousands of the saints that accompany Him to Earth, Where did they come from? How did they get to heaven to come down with him? Those are but a few questions that come to mind

The Scripture explains to those willing to listen.

The 144,000 Jews as scriture says in Rev. Are 144,000 Christians

Scripture states. " What is a true Jew ? A true Jew is one whose heart is circumcised by the Holy Spirit " when you fall in love with God you are what a True Jew is.

Just a question, for the learned. If Jesus is with us now, how can He return?

The presence of God is always with us. The body of Jesus , or shall i say, the Glorified Body of Christ will return , it is by seeing Him in His Glory we will be caught up.

 

[Hekuran]

Well let me ask you about that....When Jesus returns, he'll be on the Earth for the next thousand years....What are we doing in the air? Why don't we meet Him on Earth...The tens of thousands of the saints that accompany Him to Earth, Where did they come from? How did they get to heaven to come down with him? Those are but a few questions that come to mind

The Thessalonians passage ends 'and we will be with him forever'. Paul is not saying we will be dangling mid-air for 1,000 years.

We will rise to greet Jesus as he returns in glory and join the heavenly procession as he comes to reign over the earth. Like an ancient middle-eastern wedding party that rushes out to meet the bridegroom and joyfully ushers him to the celebration feast.

 

[Bill]

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

Many feel that believing in Jesus also means to physically know who he is, in your mind. Scripture does not support that notion.

Jesus says, ' No One ' can go to the Father but through me .

The Jews did not know Jesus, Yet Enoch was taken to heaven.

This proposes an issue. Because We Know , God is Eternal. We know Jesus and the Father are 1 . And the words of Jesus are also eternal . So even though Jesus statement comes hundreds of years later, eternity is still bound by them.

So either Enoch never went to Heaven, or our understanding of what Jesus is , is incomplete.

Scripture states, " God is Love " . It also says " Enoch loved God, and God took him. "

This is the key. Love.

Jesus is Love , and to be a true Jew is to Love God with all your heart .

When Jesus says , " No one can go to the Father , but through me " it is simply this, by love are we saved .
Faith brings us to Jesus, and by accepting the Love that is Jesus, we are saved.

 

[Sue D.]

The rapture / up-gathering of all the born again believers from all over from the grave 1st and then those alive when it takes place - meeting Him in the air // the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ is when He comes down to earth and stays here for the 1,000 of His earthly reign. The 1st is before the wrath of God is felt by non-believing world.

 

[Sue D.]

@Bill -- 1 Corinthians 15 :1-4 "To be saved... believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- that He died on the cross, was buried and that He rose again on the 3rd day , according to Scripture."

John 14:6 "I am the Way, the truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father, but through Me." Jesus Christ is telling us that. Through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. The shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient.

Your IF, Then statement , well........ maybe some faulty reasoning?! A person doesn't have to be a Jew to be saved. Both Jew and Gentile are saved the same way. And there Are a couple of men in the Old testament who experienced a personal rapture. Enoch and either Elijah or Elisha.

The Jews , as a people, did not accept Jesus Christ as their Promised Messiah. But there Are Messianic Jews.

The 144,000 who are sealed in Revelation are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. They go to evangelize the unrepentant Jews after the born again believers are raptured up and out of here.

Jesus Christ is NOT here with us now. He ascended back up to heaven in book of Acts 40 days after His bodily resurrection so that the Holy Spirit could come to indwell each born again believer.

And it Is the glorified body of Jesus Christ that will come back to reign. And it's that same kind of glorified body that born again believers will receive either upon their death or upon being raptured up.

 

[Bill]

@Bill -- 1 Corinthians 15 :1-4 "To be saved... believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- that He died on the cross, was buried and that He rose again on the 3rd day , according to Scripture."

John 14:6 "I am the Way, the truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father, but through Me." Jesus Christ is telling us that. Through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. The shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient.

Your IF, Then statement , well........ maybe some faulty reasoning?! A person doesn't have to be a Jew to be saved. Both Jew and Gentile are saved the same way. And there Are a couple of men in the Old testament who experienced a personal rapture. Enoch and either Elijah or Elisha.

The Jews , as a people, did not accept Jesus Christ as their Promised Messiah. But there Are Messianic Jews.

The 144,000 who are sealed in Revelation are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. They go to evangelize the unrepentant Jews after the born again believers are raptured up and out of here.

Jesus Christ is NOT here with us now. He ascended back up to heaven in book of Acts 40 days after His bodily resurrection so that the Holy Spirit could come to indwell each born again believer.

And it Is the glorified body of Jesus Christ that will come back to reign. And it's that same kind of glorified body that born again believers will receive either upon their death or upon being raptured up.

Whew , im really starting to worry about you .

Let me ask you this. Jesus says that the father and I are One. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John it states in the Beginning was the word the word was with God and the Word was God . When the Jews wer talking to God to whom were they talking to ? And who was talking to them ? Was it God the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit ?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Whew , im really starting to worry about you .

Let me ask you this. Jesus says that the father and I are One. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John it states in the Beginning was the word the word was with God and the Word was God . When the Jews wer talking to God to whom were they talking to ? And who was talking to them ? Was it God the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit ?

d . When the Jews wer talking to God to whom were they talking to ? And who was talking to them ? Was it God the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit ? The answer is yes...That's who they were talking to.

 

[Dave M]

THe wrath of God is not for us, but that does not mean we will escape the tribulation, tribulation is also the wrath of satan, Lock was spared the wrath of God, yet he was not raptured away. God is very capable of protecting his children when he unleashes his wrath on the earth.

Jesus gives his children instructions in revelation to endure to the end.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The Jews did not know Jesus, Yet Enoch was taken to heaven.

This proposes an issue. Because We Know , God is Eternal. We know Jesus and the Father are 1 . And the words of Jesus are also eternal . So even though Jesus statement comes hundreds of years later, eternity is still bound by them.

So either Enoch never went to Heaven, or our understanding of what Jesus is , is incomplete.

The answer is the latter...Your understanding is incomplete....Here's what you missed...Enoch and God were FRIENDS...They became so by spending much time together...Just as you can become a friend of God by spending time with Him...Enoch knew Jesus...He knew Him so well that he was invited to go to heaven to spend all his time with Him....

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The Thessalonians passage ends 'and we will be with him forever'. Paul is not saying we will be dangling mid-air for 1,000 years.

We will rise to greet Jesus as he returns in glory and join the heavenly procession as he comes to reign over the earth. Like an ancient middle-eastern wedding party that rushes out to meet the bridegroom and joyfully ushers him to the celebration feast.

Well, this argument has been going on for the last two thousand years, why stop now....Listen Take all of the verses in the Bible that speak of the rapture, the second coming and the return of Jesus, anything that speaks of Jesus coming back...Put them all together and arrange them so they match...You'll find two separate events spoken of....One is the rapture, and one is the second coming...If you're not willing to do that, then you have NO basis for argument. Simple as that.

 

[Bill]

d . When the Jews wer talking to God to whom were they talking to ? And who was talking to them ? Was it God the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit ? The answer is yes...That's who they were talking to.

Your answer wasn't really an answer was just a statement . So who were the Jews talking to God the Father God the son or God the Holy Spirit

 

[Bill]

Just to let you know my question was directed to sue who seems to have some confusion when it comes to what Jesus is

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Just to let you know my question was directed to sue who seems to have some confusion when it comes to what Jesus is

I knew the question was directed at Sue...I also know that it is not she that is confused here.

 

[Christ4Ever]

confusion when it comes to what Jesus is

Dear Brother,
Do you mean "who" instead of "what"?
I can fix it if you'd like.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue D.]

Whew , im really starting to worry about you .

Let me ask you this. Jesus says that the father and I are One. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John it states in the Beginning was the word the word was with God and the Word was God . When the Jews wer talking to God to whom were they talking to ? And who was talking to them ? Was it God the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit ?

I quoted two passages -- are those what you are referring to?

When Jesus Christ was here on earth -- He was here as God incarnate. Thus, He and the Father were One in the same person.

Could you be more specific? "when the Jews were talking to God to whom were they talking to?" You list three possibilities -- God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. The trinity is made up of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. God Is Spirit, yes, but that's different than being the Holy Spirit. And God isn't the Son. The Son is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. There's a difference.

The Son of God died on the cross.

In what respect are you starting to worry about me.

 

[Sue D.]

THe wrath of God is not for us, but that does not mean we will escape the tribulation, tribulation is also the wrath of satan, Lock was spared the wrath of God, yet he was not raptured away. God is very capable of protecting his children when he unleashes his wrath on the earth.

Jesus gives his children instructions in revelation to endure to the end.

Well -- enduring to the end of What? The time of the Gentiles? The end of the 7 yrs. of coming tribulation?

There's already been lots of tribulation for born again believers. There always has been. That's part of being a born again believer. However -- Why should born again believers Have to be around here for Seeing God's wrath being poured out.

You also realize that the Church is not mentioned in book of Revelation after chapter 3. Many scholars see the break at chapter 4 as where the church is no longer 'here'.

And then a person gets back to the events taking place in Heaven -- the marriage super of the Lamb, for instance, during those 7 years.

Not sure where you see the tribulation as the wrath of satan as well as the wrath of God. Unless you mean at mid-point in the 7 yrs. the Antichrist making himself known. The mark of the beast , 666, on the back of the hand or the forehead. Those last 3 1/2 yrs will be the Worse of the time.

We Are seeing a lot of things taking shape -- Biden and the mess he's creating at the border. And the pipe line that was so controvercial at the beginning and now in an up-roar with Biden stopping it completely all of a sudden. And there's possibly incentives being given to those who Do take the vaccine. So -- it would appear that the stage is being set For?!

 

[Bill]

Dear Brother,
Do you mean "who" instead of "what"?
I can fix it if you'd like.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

No, what is good.

Jesus , who we see the Scripture speaks is how many view Jesus . But Jesus is much more . He is the Word made flesh .

When the Jews spoke to " God " in the Hebrew Scripture ( Old Testiment as we know it ) , it was never the Father or the Holy Spirit doing the replies. It was Jesus, the Word.

All of Scripture can attest to this one thing . When one recieves the Word into your heart, you have recieved Jesus, whether you know it or not.

Remember, Jesus had not been revealed to the Jews until after the birth. And Peter calls the Rock that followed Moses in the desert, Jesus.
Jesus, the Living Water. Not for just when He was revealed, but always. The Alpha and Omaga.

God, the Trinity, always was, always will be.

This is why i say , What Jesus is, as He is way more than the person of Who.

The Terms we toss around so easily, The Cornerstone, The Vine , The Living Water etc etc . We think of them as just terms to help describe Him . Jesus IS The Living Water, Jesus IS The Bread of Life, Jesus IS The Wine Offered.

Jesus was not stating this as a suggestion, He was making a statement. " This Is my body , this Is my blood " . The Blessing that sets Jesus apart for His Apostles to see. They didn't recognize the person, nor the scripture He spoke , but it was the Blessing of the Wine and the Bread , " this is my Body, this is my Blood " when they recognized Jesus.

Do you understand , can you not see what i am showing you ?

 

[Bill]

Well -- enduring to the end of What? The time of the Gentiles? The end of the 7 yrs. of coming tribulation?

There's already been lots of tribulation for born again believers. There always has been. That's part of being a born again believer. However -- Why should born again believers Have to be around here for Seeing God's wrath being poured out.

You also realize that the Church is not mentioned in book of Revelation after chapter 3. Many scholars see the break at chapter 4 as where the church is no longer 'here'.

And then a person gets back to the events taking place in Heaven -- the marriage super of the Lamb, for instance, during those 7 years.

Not sure where you see the tribulation as the wrath of satan as well as the wrath of God. Unless you mean at mid-point in the 7 yrs. the Antichrist making himself known. The mark of the beast , 666, on the back of the hand or the forehead. Those last 3 1/2 yrs will be the Worse of the time.

We Are seeing a lot of things taking shape -- Biden and the mess he's creating at the border. And the pipe line that was so controvercial at the beginning and now in an up-roar with Biden stopping it completely all of a sudden. And there's possibly incentives being given to those who Do take the vaccine. So -- it would appear that the stage is being set For?!

You must be kidding. Do you think you are struggling as say the Jews who were slaves to Egypt 400 yrs.

The only Christians that even come close are those living in China or maybe the middle east.

But the plush life of Christians in Ameriica and Europe have no clue to that reality.

That type of ideology, " oh i have suffered, i have a canker sore ." Really!!!

Did you see God rapturing " His " people out of Egypt to Heaven. No. Infact God had them wander the desert 40 yrs after slavery. To forge the gold within His Children.

Now if we are Gods children, and we are . How much more will God forge us to be perfect in Him. Remember the words of Jesus. " Be Holy for I am Holy "

Sue, He wasn't talking about Swiss Cheese.

You say " why should born again believers be seeing God's wrath pour out " ( something like that ) . I say , why not.

If you only became a born again for your own self interest, then you are missing out on everything.

Being a born again , is like embracing a death sentance in this world and to be the Fool for God.

Our porpose is not to save ourselves, Jesus already saved us. Our purpose is to reach out to all the unbelievers, and to strive in finding the lost. As many as we can till our dying breath.

Paul tells us to run the race, not to walk to the finish line.

You should never be content as a Christian. Always be the Fire. Always be the Vessel.

Let us take on this so called enemy head on. Because God is with us.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Yup Sue, its not you that's confused...

 

[Christ4Ever]

No, what is good.

Jesus , who we see the Scripture speaks is how many view Jesus . But Jesus is much more . He is the Word made flesh .

When the Jews spoke to " God " in the Hebrew Scripture ( Old Testiment as we know it ) , it was never the Father or the Holy Spirit doing the replies. It was Jesus, the Word.

All of Scripture can attest to this one thing . When one recieves the Word into your heart, you have recieved Jesus, whether you know it or not.

Remember, Jesus had not been revealed to the Jews until after the birth. And Peter calls the Rock that followed Moses in the desert, Jesus.
Jesus, the Living Water. Not for just when He was revealed, but always. The Alpha and Omaga.

God, the Trinity, always was, always will be.

This is why i say , What Jesus is, as He is way more than the person of Who.

The Terms we toss around so easily, The Cornerstone, The Vine , The Living Water etc etc . We think of them as just terms to help describe Him . Jesus IS The Living Water, Jesus IS The Bread of Life, Jesus IS The Wine Offered.

Jesus was not stating this as a suggestion, He was making a statement. " This Is my body , this Is my blood " . The Blessing that sets Jesus apart for His Apostles to see. They didn't recognize the person, nor the scripture He spoke , but it was the Blessing of the Wine and the Bread , " this is my Body, this is my Blood " when they recognized Jesus.

Do you understand , can you not see what i am showing you ?

Dear Brother,
I do believe we are saying the same thing, and I do not disagree with what you have posted above. I just see that the use of "what" in reference to Him, is speaking to the attributes, verses "who", which can also speak to His attributes but in a more personal fashion (relationship). I offered the change as only an opportunity to personalize Him, instead of just analyzing Him.

I hope this clarifies a little what I was attempting to suggest to you in making the change.

I do believe that as it says in Revelation 19:13 that The Word of God, is the actual name of who we call Jesus the Christ. We'll have Eternity to get to know God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Revelation 19:13 KJV

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><