Sinning never ends

[lentz]

Case for sin never ending:

If we ever say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves 1 John 1:8.

Jesus had one important message for all, repent Luke 5:32. Those that go to hell, go there because they harden their hearts to repentance Heb 3:15. IE They are unrepentant.

Humans go to heaven because they repent of their sin Psalm 51:17, get judged by God for the sincerity of their heart Jer 17:9-10 and are then given faith and a revelation of Jesus being Lord Rom 12:3, 1 Cor 12:3. We go to heaven, because we are washed clean of our sin by Jesus and are covered forever by His blood Heb 10:14. Not because we are able to ''muster up faith'' on par with faith in fairies and Santa Claus or because we attend the correct church.

ONLY God is perfect Mark 10:18 and righteous in ALL His ways Psalm 145:17. Many teach erroneously that one-day in heaven we will be perfect, full-stop. Heb 10:14 says with perfect clarity that we are made perfect to God by the sacrifice of Jesus / forever covered by the blood of Jesus. IE We are perfect to God and will never ever be perfect like God.

Angels will one-day be judged by us 1 Cor 6:3. Judged on what if not their sin? Rebellion? Disobedience?

Angels that have been removed from heaven, have to have hardened their hearts to repentance as we do. There is little difference between us and them Heb 2:7.

As such, sin continues forever in heaven and on earth. Just in heaven, we repent and do not commit 'mortal' sins.

Significance of Mortal sins:

Mortal sins will not take place in heaven. Venial sins will.

When Paul was converted he stopped murdering Christians (Mortal sin) but he continued battling with lessor sins (Venial sins) Rom 15:16.

In 1 Cor 5, Paul isolated a so called 'brethren' in a mortal sin of incest. Note Paul says ''so called'' as this person was never truly a Christian. A Christian cannot continue in mortal sin.

Throughout the OT, especially in Leviticus, sins are categorized. Most notable categorization is that of sins that would get one stoned to death verse those that would not. IE some sins were such an abomination to God that they carried the death penalty. A graphic death of being stoned to death. Think on that for a while. Scripture teaches us that God does not change Psalm 100:5, as such, His views on certain sins outweighing others holds forever. It should be logical, but many Christians are falsely taught to put blinkers on and only believe ''sin is sin''. Sin is sin, there is truth to that. But, sin also has degrees. Teaching sin is sin, full-stop is a half truth, false teaching.

Case for free will:

Anyone with more then half a working brain knows that evil exists as God wants true free will to exist. As...true free will is a good thing and God chooses to be good.

Now, if we cannot sin in heaven, surely that means there is no free will in heaven?

Free will exists now and continues forever and ever. God does not change and we can be fortunate that 'God chooses to be' good. He does what pleases Him Psalm 115:3 and being righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17. pleases Him. We know from Rom 9, that God could be partial and evil if He wanted to. But we know from the rest of scripture, that God chooses not to (Calvinists please pay attention).

Those that go to hell have free will before they choose hell and free will in hell. Those that go to heaven, have free will before they choose heaven and free will when in heaven.

Definition of sin:

As God is perfectly good. Not perfect because He is ''God''. Sin is best defined as any kind of rebellion to Him. For true free will to exist, one has to on some level be able to rebel to Him.

Conclusion:

All humans and angels continue to sin forever, those in heaven will never sin at a mortal level. Angels and humans that go to hell, gave in to sin full measure. All in heaven will be quick to repent of any sin.

Does anyone know where this man gets his doctrine?
Scripture clearly states in Revelation that there will be no tears nor sin in heaven.
I would love to see other scripture that contradicts other scripture,book and verse.
Seems this is just some idea dreamt up in this person’s mind.

 

[lentz]

And I repeat, there is no sin in heaven. "Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool," Acts 7:49. Saying there is sin on God's throne is equivalent to accusing God of sinning. Also, there's no such terms called "mortal sin" and "venial sin" in the Scripture, Yeshua only said that there's forgivable sin of blaspheming against the Son and UNFORGIVABLE sin of blaspheming against the Spirit.

Wasting your time with this one Jonathan

 

[lentz]

A free will for WHAT? Scripture says truth shall set you free, but free to do WHAT? Well the truth is, we have a natural will to sin, but a free will to obey God, not the other way around. If you think we have a free will to SIN, then that's truly accusing God of being evil, go educate yourself with Rom. 6:1-2.


You go worship your golden calf of "most scholars", while I hold on to what the Bible really says about when the devil was cast out, which is Rev. 12:12. If he were already cast out at the beginning, then tell me, how did he present himself and his fallen angels before God in Jobs 1:6?


I did not assume, Eve did say that in Gen. 3:13. God used Satan to test Adam and Eve - as he used Satan to test Yeshua. The difference is, Adam failed, Yeshua passed. And the reason for Adam's failure is his invention of the first false doctrine - "you shall not eat it, NOR SHALL YOU TOUCH IT, lest you die." God never said you shall not touch it, either Adam or Eve invented it, which gave Satan an opportunity to deceive.


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Tell me where's Satan in between the lines in Gen. 1 and 2? Where? All I can read in the Scripture is that God saw everything he created was GOOD. There was place for Satan and absolutely no mention of Satan until "our" beginning in Gen 3:1. Therefore, you're the one who's posting your own opinion, not me.


Yes you are. You're focusing on Satan instead of our risen savior who was there at the beginning, that's your pitfall. I wanna focus on my Lord Christ not the Antichrist.


Are those two chapters not a part of the Scripture? You asked about judging angels, I gave you five examples. And I've never said that's a theory, that's what Yeshua said to Apostle John. I don't need no theory, I let the Scripture explain itself. If you are not playing dumb, then why do you ask?

Once again….. Amen Brother

 

[KingJ]

Does anyone know where this man gets his doctrine?

A working brain.

Scripture clearly states in Revelation that there will be no tears nor sin in heaven.

No it doesn't. Quote the verse and read it properly.

I would love to see other scripture that contradicts other scripture,book and verse.

?

Seems this is just some idea dreamt up in this person’s mind.

I have spent a lot of time on atheist forums. The question of free will is a hard one to grasp. This thread is to do with us having it in heaven. If you disagree, explain how we have it without being able to sin.

I feel you would get torn to pieces if you visited an atheist forum. Your theology was briefly scrutinized and it showed that you believe God is evil and unjust. When you decide to actually take part in a discussion, we may see many more holes. At the moment you are just sitting back in your chair getting a kick out of trolling someone on the internet. Safe in your safe zone.

Truly looking forward to the day you decide to actually type a meaningful post.

 

[lentz]

A working brain.



No it doesn't. Quote the verse and read it properly.



If you really want this, read more then the first page of this thread.



Lentz, you would get torn to pieces if you visited an atheist forum. If your theology cannot survive interrogation, it cannot survive interrogation. Your theology was briefly scrutinized and it showed that you believe God is evil and unjust. When you decide to actually take part in a discussion, we may see many more holes. At the moment you are just sitting back in your chair getting a kick out of trolling someone on the internet. Safe in your safe zone.

Truly looking forward to the day you decide to actually type a meaningful post.

I love calling out heretics.
Show the book and chapter where it states people will sin in heaven.
Do that one thing if you want to convince us. Show it if you can. If you can’t,you’re a heretic and false teacher. Is it too hard to understand?
Show us! Chapter and verse please

 

[KingJ]

I love calling out heretics.

Yes, you do such a good job at exposing them. Your rebuttals are amazing.

Show the book and chapter where it states people will sin in heaven.

Mark 10:18.

Show it if you can. If you can’t,you’re a heretic and false teacher. Is it too hard to understand?

I thought you read the OP, guess not.

 

[lentz]

Yes, you do such a good job at exposing them. Your rebuttals are amazing.



Mark 10:18.



Done

I thought you read the OP, guess not.

Mark 10:18 has nothing to do with the church in heaven.
Further more,at the time Jesus was saying it,and even now,there is none good.
You have no understanding of scripture.
I asked you to prove your point and you can only come up with Mark 10?
Please

 

[lentz]

Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven? If there is no sin in heaven, is there free will in heaven?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[lentz]

Yes, you do such a good job at exposing them. Your rebuttals are amazing.



Mark 10:18.



I thought you read the OP, guess not.

Will it be possible to sin in heaven? Will people in heaven be able to sin?

Will it be possible to sin in heaven? Will people in heaven be able to sin? Will sin exist in heaven?

www.compellingtruth.org

 

[Charlie24]

A working brain.



No it doesn't. Quote the verse and read it properly.



?



I have spent a lot of time on atheist forums. The question of free will is a hard one to grasp. This thread is to do with us having it in heaven. If you disagree, explain how we have it without being able to sin.

I feel you would get torn to pieces if you visited an atheist forum. Your theology was briefly scrutinized and it showed that you believe God is evil and unjust. When you decide to actually take part in a discussion, we may see many more holes. At the moment you are just sitting back in your chair getting a kick out of trolling someone on the internet. Safe in your safe zone.

Truly looking forward to the day you decide to actually type a meaningful post.

Kingj, would you agree with me that all the corruption in this world came through sin?

Not part of it, but ALL of it?

 

[lentz]

Kingj, would you agree with me that all the corruption in this world came through sin?

Not part of it, but ALL of it?

The thing,or ,one thing he doesn’t realize,is that if we sin in heaven,Christ didn’t do a very good job. He lied when he said it’s finished.
To say Revelation 20and 21 doesn’t exist is false teachings

 

[B-A-C]

Sin won't be allowed in the New Jerusalem.

(Heb 10:14) For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:3; There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

Rev 22:15; Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

1Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

1Pet 1:4; to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Jn 3:2; Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

1Jn 3:5; You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

Rom_6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom_6:10; For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

 

[Charlie24]

The thing,or ,one thing he doesn’t realize,is that if we sin in heaven,Christ didn’t do a very good job. He lied when he said it’s finished.
To say Revelation 20and 21 doesn’t exist is false teachings

Something else he doesn't realize is that all the corruption in this world came through the sin of man.

At the resurrection the corruptible is made incorruptible, this is where sin is no more.

I think his intensions are well meant, he's just caught up in false teaching.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 5:17; For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

 

[lentz]

Something else he doesn't realize is that all the corruption in this world came through the sin of man.

At the resurrection the corruptible is made incorruptible, this is where sin is no more.

I think his intensions are well meant, he's just caught up in false teaching.

I don’t want to be hard on him,but there are a lot of young ones who visit. And the last thing they need to hear is false doctrine.
Our job is to call them out,not pat them on the head and encourage it

 

[Charlie24]

I don’t want to be hard on him,but there are a lot of young ones who visit. And the last thing they need to hear is false doctrine.
Our job is to call them out,not pat them on the head and encourage it

The reason our Lord hung on that Cross was to put down sin and death that man brought upon himself.

He defeated sin and death for us, He took the curse from us "the wages of sin is death."

Only because of what He did for us do we have that victory over sin and death. at least for those who believe.

 

[lentz]

The reason our Lord hung on that Cross was to put down sin and death that man brought upon himself.

He defeated sin and death for us, He took the curse from us "the wages of sin is death."

Only because of what He did for us do we have that victory over sin and death. at least for those who believe.

He threatened to report me and have me banned.
Lol,that wouldn’t effect me in the least.
If I get banned for standing for truth,I don’t want to be here anyway.

 

[Charlie24]

The reason our Lord hung on that Cross was to put down sin and death that man brought upon himself.

He defeated sin and death for us, He took the curse from us "the wages of sin is death."

Only because of what He did for us do we have that victory over sin and death. at least for those who believe.

"The wages of sin is death" is two fold!

Physical death and spiritual death.

We must face the physical, but He delivered the believing from the spiritual death.

 

[Charlie24]

He threatened to report me and have me banned.
Lol,that wouldn’t effect me in the least.
If I get banned for standing for truth,I don’t want to be here anyway.

It's sad we have these arguments. But I agree, it must to be pointed out.

 

[lentz]

It's sad we have these arguments. But I agree, it must to be pointed out.

My whole Christian life has been around self taught theologians.
I got ruined on churches for a while. But I believe he and others,find a good bible teaching denomination. Baptist if possible.
General Baptist would be better