The 2 Kinds of Faith of Abraham

[God's Truth]

Who does the first works of turning the other?

God does not supernaturally turn us to Him. That is a false teaching by Luther and Calvin, who they learned from college days being made to study the writings of Augustine.

 

[Garee]

God does not supernaturally turn us to Him. That is a false teaching by Luther and Calvin, who they learned from college days being made to study the writings of Augustine.

Hi thanks for the reply.

If not supernatural then how can believers return to our first love "the hearing of the gospel" The gospel empowering mankind to believe or have faith toward God not seen As his faith works in believers towards believers

Do believers give their love and trust to their leader what the eyes see like the Pharisees a with Sadaucesss a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non venerable show watchers , which God says he hates ?


Revelation 2: 1-7 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (believe God) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

In that way we can know God is not served by dying human hands as if he needed anything from the clay he forms Christ in .

Some murmur kicking against the pricks or thrown overboard spit back on dry ground like Jonah or others like the Son of man, Jesus he did the will of the father with delight. The Lord gets his good will performed. . he makes our new born again hearts soft

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[Daniel L.]

his faith works in believers

You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice.

-Let me ask you this, when you see the ungodly living in wickedness, who's to blame? The wicked, because he didn't believe nor repented out of his own free will, or the LORD because He didn't give him faith, nor repented for him knowing the wicked had no free will to repent or believe of hs own?

-Because the LORD is blameless, it must be the wicked's own fault for his wickedness and unbelief. We deduce the wicked has free will and chooses not to repent nor believe, so it's his own fault that he hasn't repented nor believed, not the LORD's.

 

[God's Truth]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Thank you too.

If not supernatural then how can believers return to our first love "the hearing of the gospel"

I will get to the supernatural part, but first want to say something about the "first love" part.

When Jesus says to return to your first love, that is about people who repented and believed and were saved, but then started sinning again.

Jesus tells them to repent before he comes again...he tells them to return to him, their first love.

The gospel empowering mankind to believe or have faith toward God not seen As his faith works in believers towards believers

Now the part about God turning us supernaturally.
If God used supernatural power to turn us, then that would be God giving us the Holy Spirit before we believe and obey, and that is a false doctrine from Luther and Calvin.

We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message.

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

Do believers give their love and trust to their leader what the eyes see like the Pharisees a with Sadaucesss a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non venerable show watchers , which God says he hates ?

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make, for Jesus was seen and believed.

Revelation 2: 1-7 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (believe God) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

In that way we can know God is not served by dying human hands as if he needed anything from the clay he forms Christ in .

I still don't know what you mean by that.
We are to serve God.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Ephesians 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Acts 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

And many more.

So are you going to stop saying we aren't supposed to serve God?

Some murmur kicking against the pricks or thrown overboard spit back on dry ground like Jonah or others like the Son of man, Jesus he did the will of the father with delight. The Lord gets his good will performed. . he makes our new born again hearts soft

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Do you know how God does that? I do, but want to hear what you think about it.

 

[Garee]

I will get to the supernatural part, but first want to say something about the "first love" part.

When Jesus says to return to your first love, that is about people who repented and believed and were saved, but then started sinning again.

Jesus tells them to repent before he comes again...he tells them to return to him, their first love.

It might be why he calls it the "first love" (Let there be) .The love or power that drew the sinner to repent. Repentances two fold work a work of God first he turn us by the hearing of his word comforted, reassured then in turn we can bear the reproach of youth and feel shame .

Again two turning .Christ turning us empowering and in return then able strengthened by that love we look at the childish thing mankind does performs

Satan the counterfeiter would call it all one in the same to produce false pride.

Jeremiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[God's Truth]

It might be why he calls it the "first love" (Let there be) .The love or power that drew the sinner to repent. Repentances two fold work a work of God first he turn us by the hearing of his word comforted, reassured then in turn we can bear the reproach of youth and feel shame .

Again two turning .Christ turning us empowering and in return

I'm still not following you about you saying two turnings. Could you try to explain it more so that I can see better what you mean?

We are drawn to Jesus because he died for us, it is the greatest love known:

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

We all also drawn to Jesus because we can be reconciled to God and be made perfect and holy and have eternity with God.

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

So we are drawn to Jesus for what he did for us, and, our faith comes by hearing the message, being taught, convinced, and persuaded:

Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

We are told how Jesus died and shed his blood for us on the cross, and how we are to have faith that his blood washes away the sins we repent of doing, and that we are to die to the sins of the world and crucify ourselves with him, and then live our new born again lives living to please him.


Romans 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?

Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

Romans 6: 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

So we hear the message and are drawn to Jesus and have faith in him, we want to be saved, so we do what he says and repent of our sins, and call on him to help us, to save us, to give us his Spirit.

Where are your two turnings in the gospel? What do you mean by we are empowered?

then able strengthened by that love we look at the childish thing mankind does performs

Satan the counterfeiter would call it all one in the same to produce false pride.

Jeremiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

That is about a child of God sinning then being disciplined by God and the person repenting of their sins.

 

[Garee]

We are drawn to Jesus because he died for us, it is the greatest love known:

Remember God can use a Ass (Balaam's) a unclean animal to signify unbelief in order to bring the gospel and actively stop the madness of the false apostle, false prophet Balaam.

Yes he died for us, it is the greatest love revealed by God. That first love as it is writen in respect to living words works in us turning us toward God . Called walking by faith.

No mixing of faith no rest yoked with Christ

Again His faith that works in us the unseen work, having been powered to believe our first love we are strengthened to do it to His good pleasure . Not of our own selves lest any man falsely boast .Some murmur some do the will of our father with delight like Jesus .

Two turning first God turns us then empowered in these earthen bodies of death we can turn to Him. Christ does all the work of salvation .He is not served by human hands as a will.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Daniel L.]

as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke

Do you think it was God that said this? -It was the one beeing turned, he confessed, a work of free will.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Garee]

Do you think it was God that said this? -It was the one beeing turned, he confessed, a work of free will.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hi Dan . I had an older brother named Dan

It is Christ the power of God who works in us powerless one ones living in a dying body of death .Working in us to both reveal his truthful will and empower mankind to perform it to his good pleasure in the end of the matter. .

Free will or a liberated will is the power freely given to us by which we turn towards Him and work with him yoked with Christ .. our burden is made lighter with a living hope beyond the grave.

Jesu said his will called meat as food empowers him to perform the good will of the father . That free will was lost in the garden when mankind ate the forbidder fruit as a false poisonous will they became slaves to sin

 

[Daniel L.]

Free will

-Let me ask you this, when you see the ungodly living in wickedness, who's to blame? The wicked, because he didn't believe nor repented out of his own free will, or the LORD because He didn't give him faith, nor repented for him, knowing the wicked had no free will to repent or believe of his own?

-So, because the LORD is blameless, it must be the wicked's own fault for his wickedness and unbelief. Which means the wicked had free will and choose not to repent nor believe, so it's his own fault that he hasn't repented nor believed, not the LORD's.

-When you place the responsibility of turning the wicked on the LORD, you destroy His relationship with us, because a relationship requires the free will choice of both parties, if you remove the ability to choose from men, you remove the ability for man to love Him, and to have a relationship with Him, because without free will it wouldn't be a relationship..

 

[God's Truth]

Remember God can use a Ass (Balaam's) a unclean animal to signify unbelief in order to bring the gospel and actively stop the madness of the false apostle, false prophet Balaam.

Yes he died for us, it is the greatest love revealed by God. That first love as it is writen in respect to living words works in us turning us toward God . Called walking by faith.

No mixing of faith no rest yoked with Christ

Again His faith that works in us the unseen work, having been powered to believe our first love we are strengthened to do it to His good pleasure . Not of our own selves lest any man falsely boast .Some murmur some do the will of our father with delight like Jesus .

Two turning first God turns us then empowered in these earthen bodies of death we can turn to Him. Christ does all the work of salvation .He is not served by human hands as a will.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You still haven't answered my question.

It sounds to me like you have the Luther and Calvin doctrines.

This is what I say to Calvinists and Lutherans:

God does not save unbelievers.

God does not regenerate a person before they believe and obey to make them believe and obey.

God only regenerates BELIEVERS, believers who obey Him.

 

[Garee]

God does not regenerate a person before they believe and obey to make them believe and obey.

I would offer.

God regenerates new creatures. He does the creative work to give them the will of God and the power of God, in accordance to the good pleasure of God .

Some murmur and complain others like Jesus our brother in the Lord did it with delight .Not as I will but you the one with power

Philippians 2: 13 -14For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[God's Truth]

I would offer.

God regenerates new creatures. He does the creative work to give them the will of God and the power of God, in accordance to the good pleasure of God .

No such thing as God regenerating UNbelievers.

God only regenerates/saves BELIEVERS.

 

[Garee]

No such thing as God regenerating UNbelievers.

God only regenerates/saves BELIEVERS.

Yes once they are regenerated (born again) they can believe, empowered they can do it to his good pleasure .Both to will and do .Some murmur because God is not served by human hands a will .

Once a person realizes God is not served by the clay he forms Christ in. Then they can put away their false pride one day at a time

Philippians 2 :13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Believers should look to the whole council of God. We would not want to sell Him short of His glory

Remember God who is not a man is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases . No one can turn him to repent .He turns us. He alone makes our hearts soft with the water of his word . Doctrines that fall from above like rain.

Job 23: 13-16 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Who makes your heart soft?

 

[Daniel L.]

You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes once they are regenerated (born again) they can believe,

No, God regenerates by giving His Spirit to those who BELIEVE, and not just believe, but belief that is alive with right action.

empowered they can do it to his good pleasure .Both to will and do .Some murmur because God is not served by human hands a will .

Once a person realizes God is not served by the clay he forms Christ in. Then they can put away their false pride one day at a time

Philippians 2 :13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Believers should look to the whole council of God. We would not want to sell Him short of His glory

Remember God who is not a man is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases . No one can turn him to repent .He turns us. He alone makes our hearts soft with the water of his word . Doctrines that fall from above like rain.

Job 23: 13-16 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Who makes your heart soft?

We make our heart soft when we do what God says to do and that is to humble ourselves and repent of our sins.

Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Did you read that?

How do they get a new heart and spirit? BY REPENTING OF THEIR SINS.

If God gives them His Spirit first before they believe and repent---to make them believe and repent---then everyone in this world who ever existed would believe and repent, but they don't.

 

[Garee]

No, God regenerates by giving His Spirit to those who BELIEVE, and not just believe, but belief that is alive with right action.

Well of course the faith he gives us is alive it does the good pleasure of God .

If not how would it work in us so that we can. Without his faith or labor of love its dead

Do you think the work of faith is of our own self? Sounds like false boasting . Where does the grace come from ?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We make our heart soft when we do what God says to do and that is to humble ourselves and repent of our sins.

That's not what the passage says. It say he performs that which he appoints (will) to us by giving power to make our hearts soft . You say hearing the word is secondary . .The Bible says God makes the heart of his children soft , and the Almighty troubles us:

Who troubles you and make your heart soft ?

No man can turn him and say I am ready to beleive nothing that is writen .but believe just because I believe whatsoever .

Both references like twin fawns work as one .

Job 23:12-16 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither hath he covered the darkness from my face

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Why Murmur? No self pride? ?

 

[God's Truth]

Well of course the faith he gives us is alive it does the good pleasure of God .

We don't get faith supernaturally, we get faith in a very human way, and that is by hearing the supernatural message.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If not how would it work in us so that we can. Without his faith or labor of love its dead

Do you think the work of faith is of our own self? Sounds like false boasting . Where does the grace come from ?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You were taught wrong about the boasting.
People misunderstand Paul when he says not of works.
The not of works are the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
The Jews used to be able to boast in the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
Those are the works we no longer have to do.
We still have to obey God, we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Did you see that? The Pharisees and teachers of the law could boast in how many foreskins they cut.

That's not what the passage says. It say he performs that which he appoints (will) to us by giving power to make our hearts soft . You say hearing the word is secondary . .The Bible says God makes the heart of his children soft , and the Almighty troubles us:

Who troubles you and make your heart soft ?

No man can turn him and say I am ready to beleive nothing that is writen .but believe just because I believe whatsoever .

Both references like twin fawns work as one .

Job 23:12-16 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither hath he covered the darkness from my face

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Why Murmur? No self pride? ?

God doesn't save unrepentant unbelievers.
John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus by having the people repent of their sins.
We still have to repent of our sins to prepare our hearts for Jesus to live there.

After Jesus accepts someone, he lives in their heart, he pours his Spirit in their heart, his Spirit is love.
When we have the Spirit of God in our heart, we feel His love and desire to please Him.
That is how He works in us.
We obey Jesus' teachings and train ourselves to know right from wrong.

 

[Garee]

We don't get faith supernaturally, we get faith in a very human way, and that is by hearing the supernatural message.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hi thanks for the reply

The faith of Christ is supernatural it comes by hearing God's understanding and not that of our own self unless any man boast in false pride . Mankind is not born with the thoughts of God working in them that work of God is supernatural. . free gift no work on our behalf .

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You were taught wrong about the boasting.
People misunderstand Paul when he says not of works.
The not of works are the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
The Jews used to be able to boast in the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
Those are the works we no longer have to do.
We still have to obey God, we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.

Ceremonial laws is another subject matter.

The works are the works of Christ's labor of love working in us not of us . Yoked with him the daily burden is lighter with a promise beyond the grave .

We pray give us this day our daily bread.

od doesn't save unrepentant unbelievers.
John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus by having the people repent of their sins.
We still have to repent of our sins to prepare our hearts for Jesus to live there.

After Jesus accepts someone, he lives in their heart, he pours his Spirit in their heart, his Spirit is love.
When we have the Spirit of God in our heart, we feel His love and desire to please Him.
That is how He works in us.
We obey Jesus' teachings and train ourselves to know right from wrong.

Yes God does not save unrepentant unbelievers. He gives them the strength of His faith to become a believer or new creature.

No one can seek after God by their own volition .They would have no way to find him or hear Him outside of his revealed knowledge the gospel .(face to face)

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

John the Baptist as prophet declared the living word of God repent. some that heard the word and turned toward God others did not .

Mathew 3:3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness,

It was not the voice of John that turned them but the word God put on his lips.

The loving commandment did all the turning. Again two turning by the power of the living word Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand

Note .. (PURPLE) by addition to follow the subject of the two turnings

Jeramiah 31:18-19 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, (he did not chasten his own self) as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; ( he did not turn for no reason) for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that(turned by God) I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. (Feel shame)

No shame until he was tuned and comforted.

Repentance as a law is a work of God involving two turnings. First God speaks . His voice turning those elected .And them as new creature that were not familiar to hearing his voice a can turn .

To the law and its testimony

To the law of God turning mankind by the hearing of His faith that works in them . And its witness men turn and then after turning feel shame and ask for forgiveness .

Can't ask for forgiveness if a person in not a believer. Again two turning... he does the first work of turning then in turn being empowered by his faith we can turn to Him . He will not share his glory with dying earthen vessels.

God's witness of two it is greater than the conscience of men as the witness of men (one)

 

[God's Truth]

Hi thanks for the reply

The faith of Christ is supernatural it comes by hearing God's understanding and not that of our own self unless any man boast in false pride . Mankind is not born with the thoughts of God working in them that work of God is supernatural. . free gift no work on our behalf .

"The faith of Christ"? You think you are not responsible for having faith? You think all are guilty and innocent at the same time. Calvinism is a false doctrine. Jesus is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Ceremonial laws is another subject matter.

The works are the works of Christ's labor of love working in us not of us . Yoked with him the daily burden is lighter with a promise beyond the grave .

We pray give us this day our daily bread.

We have to serve. Jesus says he has a yoke for us.

Yes God does not save unrepentant unbelievers.

Glad to hear you say that, BUT, you are a Calvinist and all Calvinists are taught that no one can repent unless God saves them first.

He gives them the strength of His faith to become a believer or new creature.

What? Give the scripture that says that.
We have to have faith!
Jesus teaches us how at great length!
If we are taught how, then it is on us to do it, to have it.

No one can seek after God by their own volition .

Of course they can.

They would have no way to find him or hear Him outside of his revealed knowledge the gospel .(face to face)

Searching for God is by reading the New Testament, finding God is when you obey the teachings of Jesus Christ.
That is how we search for God with our whole mind, heart, and soul.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Paul is quoting Psalm14:1-3; 53:1-3; and Ecclesiastes 7:20. Ecclesiastes SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS. Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Paul is explaining that the Jews were sinners just like the Gentiles. Nowhere in these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe on their own. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men, righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he found one upright man among a thousand. The Bible tells us that there are people who want to do right.


You have to know that there are righteous people? The Bible says so. There just was no one so righteous that they were without any sin.

Isaiah 64:4 For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear, Nor has the eye seen a God besides You, Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him. 5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a long time; And shall we be saved?


Now read on to Romans 3:21-26. This part like others Calvinists do not seem to recall when trying to get others to follow their doctrine.

Righteousness Through Faith

Romans 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,


Did you hear that? Paul shows there IS a righteousness of the law, but now there is righteousness APART from the law.

John the Baptist as prophet declared the living word of God repent. some that heard the word and turned toward God others did not .

Mathew 3:3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness,

It was not the voice of John that turned them but the word God put on his lips.

The loving commandment did all the turning. Again two turning by the power of the living word Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand

Note .. (PURPLE) by addition to follow the subject of the two turnings

Jeramiah 31:18-19 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, (he did not chasten his own self) as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; ( he did not turn for no reason) for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that(turned by God) I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. (Feel shame)

No shame until he was tuned and comforted.

I already explained that scripture to you.
Jeremiah already belonged to God.
All who belong to God and disciplined when they sin.

Repentance as a law is a work of God involving two turnings. First God speaks . His voice turning those elected .And them as new creature that were not familiar to hearing his voice a can turn .

You are not proving your beliefs with scriptures about two turnings.

To the law and its testimony

To the law of God turning mankind by the hearing of His faith that works in them . And its witness men turn and then after turning feel shame and ask for forgiveness .

Can't ask for forgiveness if a person in not a believer. Again two turning... he does the first work of turning then in turn being empowered by his faith we can turn to Him . He will not share his glory with dying earthen vessels.

God's witness of two it is greater than the conscience of men as the witness of men (one)

God does not supernaturally turn us. There are many people who believe in God and Jesus and have NOT repented of their sins. MANY.