The fires of hell

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The fact is that God's justice will not be unreasonable or something a good person will ever disagree with.

Whooa, tell me more. This is a good point to expand on. Do you really believe this?
So who are these other good people you are talking about?

Last I heard from Jesus He said no one was good except for God.
Sounds like you are saying God's justice has to agree with what we "good" people think.
And you I are not good, no one is good except for God

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Your replies are simply not holding water brother. No good person on this planet will give such an ultimatum to the wicked.

Exactly, lets stay here. You speak of "No good person"
We are not good. What good people are you speaking off?

Only God is good. So God only has to agree with God, not us.

 

[The Kreisel]

Thank you for this gem Kreisel.

You bet @KingJ - very few here have spiritual ears to hear, as it always is.
You won't find the 'Eternal Damnationist's' acknowledging it. Typical.

 

[The Kreisel]

If you believe God kills those who reject Him, you really think you awake to be greeted by a loving and kind God?

"The son quickens whom HE WILL" - John 5:21

"I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;" - I Timothy 6:13
er
Christians in this era have much to unlearn from intentionally mistranslated Bibles and carnal-minded interpretations.

"Love never fails" - I cor 13:8 and GOD IS LOVE.

 

[KingJ]

Whooa, tell me more. This is a good point to expand on. Do you really believe this?
So who are these other good people you are talking about?

Last I heard from Jesus He said no one was good except for God.
Sounds like you are saying God's justice has to agree with what we "good" people think.
And you I are not good, no one is good except for God

The context of Mark 10:18 is perfection. Perfectly good. Jesus may not have sinned, but being in the flesh put restrictions on Him. As such the actual meaning of this statement is quite a discussion.

This does not equate to God operating with a separate code of ethics to us. Gen 3:22 is crystal clear that we grasp good and evil as God and the angels do.

It seems clear that God operates on our level. Don't get me wrong though, Rom 9 tells us that God can do whatever He wants. Nobody can put Him in a box. However, the rest of scripture He has given us, tells us what He does in fact decide to do with His omnipotence and omniscience.

We also see in Gen 18 how Abraham interrogates God's '''righteousness'' in destroying Sodom. We see Moses do it to God with the golden calf. We see many prophets after better grasping God, speak well of Him. Like David in Psalm 136:1, he says we should give thanks ''because'' God is good. I find this statement interesting. I would have thought the majority believe God is good just from acknowledging the creation they are. But it seems the default position is to believe God is a mix of good and evil. Now, as Christians, we like the prophets of old should also be able to grasp and state with confidence that God is ''good''.

 

[KingJ]

''Love never fails" - I cor 13:8 and GOD IS LOVE.

Yes, amen, another heavy hitting verse.

He is 'love' fullstop. He is the very definition of love.

 

[complete]

If you believe God kills those who reject Him, you really think you awake to be greeted by a loving and kind God?

Hello @KingJ,

I have stated my case, and stand by it. For God is just, and will judge justly, as One Who knows the secrets of men's hearts (Romans 2:16). He will take into consideration whether the one standing before him has heard the gospel concerning His Son or not; and if not, whether he had a heart which sought after the God Whose power and godhead was revealed in the things that He had created, and sought to please Him, by obeying the law of conscience which indwells everyman (Romans 2), Those under law He will judge by the law, and those who were never under law according to their works. God knows how a man would have responded to the message of salvation had they heard it, and will grant life to those whom He knows would have received the Gospel with gladness, and a heart open to receive the truth concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

* Those whose hearts hold nothing but unbelief will not receive life, that is the testimony of scripture and cannot be denied.

* As for the members of the Church which is His (Christ's) body, their life is already, 'hid with Christ in God', and when the risen Lord 'appears' in glory, they will appear there with Him (Colossians 3:3-4).

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[The Kreisel]

Your replies are simply not holding water brother. No good person on this planet will give such an ultimatum to the wicked. Fact. In the USA, you kill / annihilate a handful of people a year.

There are many who are barely not saved, as many are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18. Yet you think God will be justified in utterly annihilating all the unrepentant sinners. How is that free will?

Every Christian should believe in true free will if they believe God is good. It is impossible to convince anyone using more then two brain cells that no free will is a good thing. Since God is good Psalm 136:1, free will has to exist. So please, do tell me how you believe that the phrase ''Accept me or die'' is evidence of free will / a good God.

Romans 11:32 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

And of course, His mercy endureth forever.

 

[KingJ]

Hello @KingJ,

I have stated my case, and stand by it. For God is just, and will judge justly, as One Who knows the secrets of men's hearts (Romans 2:16). He will take into consideration whether the one standing before him has heard the gospel concerning His Son or not; and if not, whether he had a heart which sought after the God Whose power and godhead was revealed in the things that He had created, and sought to please Him, by obeying the law of conscience which indwells everyman (Romans 2), Those under law He will judge by the law, and those who were never under law according to their works. God knows how a man would have responded to the message of salvation had they heard it, and will grant life to those whom He knows would have received the Gospel with gladness, and a heart open to receive the truth concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

* Those whose hearts hold nothing but unbelief will not receive life, that is the testimony of scripture and cannot be denied.

* As for the members of the Church which is His (Christ's) body, their life is already, 'hid with Christ in God', and when the risen Lord 'appears' in glory, they will appear there with Him (Colossians 3:3-4).

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Hi Complete. Not sure why you sharing this, I don't see how it is related. I suppose you are trying to make a case for how God is good despite Him killing those who reject Him. There is no case that can be made for what is clearly wicked. When you create a highly intelligent being, you give it free will if you are a good God. God is good. Free will is not ''Accept me or I will kill you''.

So just as Calvinists utterly miss-represent God to the lost, so too do annihilationists.

If you want to continue discussing, please focus your reply to answering these two points and consider my reasoning.

1. How is the phrase ''Accept me or Die'' evidence of a good God?

Surely a good judge would sentence to prison most criminals and not give all the death penalty. You do say God will judge justly, to which I will add Rom 2:6 ''all will be rewarded according to what they did''. As such, many who rejected believing in Jesus only, but yet disapproved of murder, rape and pedophilia, in your opinion, judging them justly is '''death by fire''. That is utter madness.

Do you believe sin = sin? Can you not judge better then the unsaved? The unsaved dish out differing penalties for sinners. Some murderers may get the death penalty. Would you be one that got rebuked by Paul in 1 Cor 6:1-9? Do you not know that if there are righteous that are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18, there are unrighteous that are barely unsaved? The difference between these two positions cannot be ''literal death penalty vs eternal bliss''.

2. What stops the angels in heaven from rebelling like the fallen angels?

Do they live in constant fear of not obeying God? Do they not have free will? When we judge these angels 1 Cor 6:3, will we threaten them with the death penalty if they sin? Angel A, you did not take the apple to the child as God asked, I sentence you to death by fire, you wicked being. You were not as lucky as me, where all I needed to do was magically believe the unseen as seen, or as you said ''been a member of the right church''.

 

[complete]

Hi Complete. Not sure why you sharing this, I don't see how it is related. I suppose you are trying to make a case for how God is good despite Him killing those who reject Him. There is no case that can be made for what is clearly wicked. When you create a highly intelligent being, you give it free will if you are a good God. God is good. Free will is not ''Accept me or I will kill you''.

So just as Calvinists utterly miss-represent God to the lost, so too do annihilationists.

If you want to continue discussing, please focus your reply to answering these two points and consider my reasoning.

1. How is the phrase ''Accept me or Die'' evidence of a good God?

Surely a good judge would sentence to prison most criminals and not give all the death penalty. You do say God will judge justly, to which I will add Rom 2:6 ''all will be rewarded according to what they did''. As such, many who rejected believing in Jesus only, but yet disapproved of murder, rape and pedophilia, in your opinion, judging them justly is '''death by fire''. That is utter madness.

Do you believe sin = sin? Can you not judge better then the unsaved? The unsaved dish out differing penalties for sinners. Some murderers may get the death penalty. Would you be one that got rebuked by Paul in 1 Cor 6:1-9? Do you not know that if there are righteous that are barely saved 1 Pet 4:18, there are unrighteous that are barely unsaved? The difference between these two positions cannot be ''literal death penalty vs eternal bliss''.

2. What stops the angels in heaven from rebelling like the fallen angels?

Do they live in constant fear of not obeying God? Do they not have free will? When we judge these angels 1 Cor 6:3, will we threaten them with the death penalty if they sin? Angel A, you did not take the apple to the child as God asked, I sentence you to death by fire, you wicked being. You were not as lucky as me, where all I needed to do was magically believe the unseen as seen, or as you said ''been a member of the right church''.

Hello there, @KingJ,

I am not interested in categories such as 'Calvinist' or 'annihilationist', - As to why I entered this post in reply to your own, it was with the intent of showing that God is indeed 'Good', That was my 'focus', what is yours?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[The Kreisel]

Hello there, @KingJ,

I am not interested in categories such as 'Calvinist' or 'annihilationist', - As to why I entered this post in reply to your own, it was with the intent of showing that God is indeed 'Good', That was my 'focus', what is yours?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'm curious if you are inside or outside the "gates of hell" (Matthew 16:18) - Jesus said they won't prevail against HIS CHURCH.
Methinks they are prevailing quite well against the so-called church.

Be studious before you answer.

 

[KingJ]

Hello there, @KingJ,

I am not interested in categories such as 'Calvinist' or 'annihilationist', - As to why I entered this post in reply to your own, it was with the intent of showing that God is indeed 'Good', That was my 'focus', what is yours?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Complete, you can't say you are not interested in categories when what you teach is inline with one.

My goal is for scholars to come together and discuss the nuts and bolts of hell and the fire therein. To rationalise scripture.

Many are stuck in the mud and hold fast to what they have been taught. I want to propose that if one's believe does not survive rational arguments, it needs to be re-visited.

Now despite what many say, the topic of hell should be a light hearted chat among Christians. It is a future event. We can hypothesize on what will transpire.

I have been battling, truly battling with digesting the fact that there is fire in hell. But, finally I feel God has given me a revelation of what the fire is. Don't you find it interesting that the rich man was burning before judgement day? Don't you feel challenged to deal with the 'fact' that a 'accept me or I will kill you' belief sounds terribly wicked.

 

[complete]

I'm curious if you are inside or outside the "gates of hell" (Matthew 16:18) - Jesus said they won't prevail against HIS CHURCH.
Methinks they are prevailing quite well against the so-called church.

Be studious before you answer.

Hello @The Kreisel,

At present I am enjoying God's creation on this earth, and hope to do so for as long as He wills.

Hell, as the place of the dead, or the grave, holds no power to hold me, and the fires of end time judgement will not come nigh me, for God by His wondrous grace has placed me in Christ Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:30-31) and I am secure in Him. I will not come into condemnation, for God in Christ Jesus has declared me to be 'not guilty'. I now seek to walk worthy of the Lord, and to endure to the end with a walk that is worthy, that His name be glorified. I have the hope of resurrection life in Christ Jesus, and until that day come, though I die and rest in Him, I am assured that when He appears in glory, I, with all the members of His Body, the church, will appear with Him there. (Colossians 3:3-4).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[The Kreisel]

Hello @The Kreisel,

At present I am enjoying God's creation on this earth, and hope to do so for as long as He wills.

Hell, as the place of the dead, or the grave, holds no power to hold me, and the fires of end time judgement will not come nigh me, for God by His wondrous grace has placed me in Christ Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:30-31) and I am secure in Him. I will not come into condemnation, for God in Christ Jesus has declared me to be 'not guilty'. I now seek to walk worthy of the Lord, and to endure to the end with a walk that is worthy, that His name be glorified. I have the hope of resurrection life in Christ Jesus, and until that day come, though I die and rest in Him, I am assured that when He appears in glory, I, with all the members of His Body, the church, will appear with Him there. (Colossians 3:3-4).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

So you're saying you've passed through the "Gates of Hell" then? -
You've taken the keys from Jesus and have unlocked the gates of death and hell (Rev 1:8)?

You'll only 'appear with him in glory' IF you're "going from glory to glory" - II Cor 3:18.

 

[complete]

Complete, you can't say you are not interested in categories when what you teach is inline with one.

My goal is for scholars to come together and discuss the nuts and bolts of hell and the fire therein. To rationalise scripture.

Many are stuck in the mud and hold fast to what they have been taught. I want to propose that if one's believe does not survive rational arguments, it needs to be re-visited.

Now despite what many say, the topic of hell should be a light hearted chat among Christians. It is a future event. We can hypothesize on what will transpire.

I have been battling, truly battling with digesting the fact that there is fire in hell. But, finally I feel God has given me a revelation of what the fire is. Don't you find it interesting that the rich man was burning before judgement day? Don't you feel challenged to deal with the 'fact' that a 'accept me or I will kill you' belief sounds terribly wicked.

Hello @KingJ,

It is a Biblical fact that judgment will take place, and that there will be those who will be granted life, and those who will not be granted life following that judgment, which will be carried out with Justice and Righteously, by Him who knows the secrets of men's hearts.

I do not believe that the rich man and Lazarus was an illustration of what takes place after death, for it flies in the face of the testimony of Scripture. It was directed against the Pharisees, and intended to show the hypocrisy and Scripture denying nature of the teaching they propounded, for they placed their traditions and the words of their own Rabbi's above that of the Word of God.

The fires of end time judgement is there for the purpose of destruction. It is literally fire, and will consume everything that is put into it. It is everlasting because it will not go out.

Sheol and Hades, for the most part when translated 'Hell' refer to the place of the dead, or the grave, and Tartaroo, is also translated 'Hell', but occurs only once in Scripture and refers to the place of imprisonment of the angels that sinned, and brought about the judgment of the flood upon mankind, by corrupting the gene pool of all but the man who was saved out of it, and that of his family. That judgment was just, and the destruction of mankind a necessity, otherwise the line of descent which would fulfill the prophecy of Genesis 3:15, would have also become corrupted.

Likewise, judgment must take place at the end of the age, because the earth is corrupted, and mankind outside of Christ are under the rule of the prince of this world. Opportunity will be given for repentance and salvation right up until the door of opportunity is finally shut, as it was in Noah's day. Yet, those who refuse to submit to God's rule and authority, or accept His means of salvation will suffer judgment and destruction, as they did in Noah's day.

So, I have no problem with the fact of there being hell (Gehenna) fire to destroy the carcases of the dead, after Armageddon and following the judgment of God, but praise God that after all enemies have been placed under the feet of God's Christ, the last being death itself, then God will be all in all, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth in which dwelleth righteousness. That is God's purpose, His goal, and I praise His Holy Name, that it will come to pass.

There is no such thing as eternal conscious punishment for mankind spoken of in Scripture. So you can argue and debate for as long as you desire, it will not negate what will be, for it is written and it will come to pass.

No scriptures given, no time today, but you can find them if you wish quite easily with an open Bible and a receptive mind and heart, and the willingness to question the traditions of men.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

So you're saying you've passed through the "Gates of Hell" then? -
You've taken the keys from Jesus and have unlocked the gates of death and hell (Rev 1:8)?

You'll only 'appear with him in glory' IF you're "going from glory to glory" - II Cor 3:18.

Hello @The Kreisel,

I can't play games with you on this. I am not capable of dealing with riddles and the twists and turns of a mind that will not be direct with me. I am saved by God's grace, and I praise His Holy name that the work that He has begun in me He will continue to do until the day of Christ, for He is faithful. That is what I want to dwell on, and not on game playing, On God's Word and not on word play.

Thank you
In the name of Christ my Saviour,
My Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[KingJ]

Hello @KingJ,

It is a Biblical fact that judgment will take place, and that there will be those who will be granted life, and those who will not be granted life following that judgment, which will be carried out with Justice and Righteously, by Him who knows the secrets of men's hearts.

I do not believe that the rich man and Lazarus was an illustration of what takes place after death, for it flies in the face of the testimony of Scripture. It was directed against the Pharisees, and intended to show the hypocrisy and Scripture denying nature of the teaching they propounded, for they placed their traditions and the words of their own Rabbi's above that of the Word of God.

The fires of end time judgement is there for the purpose of destruction. It is literally fire, and will consume everything that is put into it. It is everlasting because it will not go out.

Sheol and Hades, for the most part when translated 'Hell' refer to the place of the dead, or the grave, and Tartaroo, is also translated 'Hell', but occurs only once in Scripture and refers to the place of imprisonment of the angels that sinned, and brought about the judgment of the flood upon mankind, by corrupting the gene pool of all but the man who was saved out of it, and that of his family. That judgment was just, and the destruction of mankind a necessity, otherwise the line of descent which would fulfill the prophecy of Genesis 3:15, would have also become corrupted.

Likewise, judgment must take place at the end of the age, because the earth is corrupted, and mankind outside of Christ are under the rule of the prince of this world. Opportunity will be given for repentance and salvation right up until the door of opportunity is finally shut, as it was in Noah's day. Yet, those who refuse to submit to God's rule and authority, or accept His means of salvation will suffer judgment and destruction, as they did in Noah's day.

So, I have no problem with the fact of there being hell (Gehenna) fire to destroy the carcases of the dead, after Armageddon and following the judgment of God, but praise God that after all enemies have been placed under the feet of God's Christ, the last being death itself, then God will be all in all, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth in which dwelleth righteousness. That is God's purpose, His goal, and I praise His Holy Name, that it will come to pass.

There is no such thing as eternal conscious punishment for mankind spoken of in Scripture. So you can argue and debate for as long as you desire, it will not negate what will be, for it is written and it will come to pass.

No scriptures given, no time today, but you can find them if you wish quite easily with an open Bible and a receptive mind and heart, and the willingness to question the traditions of men.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Complete

You need to try present a stronger defense. On face value, annihilation seems truthful. Wages of sin is death and we all know that accepting Jesus gives us forgiveness from sin. Add that to all scripture where God destroys the wicked and yes, we can be forgiven for believing God will annihilate.

But, you cannot simply sweep under the rug these following facts and statements. They need to be dealt with.

The rational defense you have given is, ''God destroyed the wicked with the flood, what is wrong with Him doing it again after the white throne judgement''. Point noted, but it holds no water when interrogated.

1. Babies and children died during the flood. 2. Do you believe that all but Noah and his family were 10/10 wicked? 3. Do you believe Noah and his family had no sin? 4. How is the death penalty ''rewarding according to what they did'' Rom 2:6?

Christianity has only kept face with instances like the flood and Sodom because we ''add'' scripture that speaks to all children belonging to heaven and of a just judgement day for the wicked coming.

As such, events of God's annihilation of tribes on the earth is seen more as Him bringing change. We know from day 1 when He put the devil on earth with Adam and Eve that He has wanted a ''balance'' of good and evil. Cities like Sodom were lob-sided toward what is evil. That is why He dealt with them.

What is justice for a sinner? Please read 1 Cor 6:1-9 a couple of times. Note how Paul urges us to judge better then the unsaved. Note how Paul says we will judge the angels. Then read 1 Cor 5. Note how Paul ''singles'' out a person guilty of a specific sin, ''incest''. There were many other sinners in the church. Yet he singles out a person committing a certain sin.

When we ''remove'' all pre-conceived ideas and just look at it logically, the following becomes clear.

1. If the unsaved know to sentence a murderer to a longer prison sentence then a thief, how much more us, how much more a just God? If the unsaved debate all year long about lethal injection for the most grievous of sinners, how much more a good person, how much more God?

There is truth to God searching our hearts and only finding darkness. But there is also truth to darkness having levels and a judge only able to call himself just, if he recognises that.

2. Why will we judge angels in heaven? Did the devil sin long before he got removed from heaven? God could see the devils heart long before he was removed from heaven. Yet God only removed him at a certain point in time. The evidence points to the devil giving in to a depth of intent of sin / rebellion. We judge angels in heaven because angels in heaven disobey and sin 1 Cor 6:3. Must they all be cast into the furnace and be annihilated?

3. How will you go forward in a relationship with God if you know that rejection of Him, disobedience to Him will result in Him utterly annihilating you? Why would God keep hell burning for all eternity as a reminder to us who are saved? Annihilationists make this statement but don't actually apply their mind to it. It is terribly sick of God to do this. For an annihilationist it can ''only'' mean their salvation is not secure.

4. Why, when Jesus speaks to the demons, did they say ''torment before our time'' and not ''destroy us''. Why, if Jesus was going to ''destroy'' them, ''hates''' them, would He honor their request to be cast into pigs? Especially when we can all agree with the fact that there is no more hope for them.

5. Why do good people on earth sign a Geneva convention? The Geneva convention stipulates rules and regulations for the treatment of your enemy. Christians are told to love their enemy, should do better. Why would God be like the Russians who did not want to sign the Geneva convention as they wanted to kill the Germans.

The Geneva convention ensures that you do not repay evil with evil. You show you are good by treating those you don't have to be nice to, nice. If you torture or annihilate, it is not evidence of justice or 'good'.

What I find terribly sick from many Christians is the statement (which you did suggest) that because they made the effort to ''have faith / believe the unseen is seen'' they will not suffer the same fate as venial sinners who refused to repent of their dirty thoughts. This just makes the poor lost person roll their eyes at us. Makes them think God is even more ridiculous. A little faith has the ability to separate one sinner from utter annihilation, to eternal bliss.

There is so much more to Christian faith. There is so much more to God's judgement and plan for the wicked.

 

[complete]

Hi Complete

You need to try present a stronger defense. On face value, annihilation seems truthful. Wages of sin is death and we all know that accepting Jesus gives us forgiveness from sin. Add that to all scripture where God destroys the wicked and yes, we can be forgiven for believing God will annihilate.

But, you cannot simply sweep under the rug these following facts and statements. They need to be dealt with.

The rational defense you have given is, ''God destroyed the wicked with the flood, what is wrong with Him doing it again after the white throne judgement''. Point noted, but it holds no water when interrogated.

1. Babies and children died during the flood. 2. Do you believe that all but Noah and his family were 10/10 wicked? 3. Do you believe Noah and his family had no sin? 4. How is the death penalty ''rewarding according to what they did'' Rom 2:6?

Christianity has only kept face with instances like the flood and Sodom because we ''add'' scripture that speaks to all children belonging to heaven and of a just judgement day for the wicked coming.

As such, events of God's annihilation of tribes on the earth is seen more as Him bringing change. We know from day 1 when He put the devil on earth with Adam and Eve that He has wanted a ''balance'' of good and evil. Cities like Sodom were lob-sided toward what is evil. That is why He dealt with them.

What is justice for a sinner? Please read 1 Cor 6:1-9 a couple of times. Note how Paul urges us to judge better then the unsaved. Note how Paul says we will judge the angels. Then read 1 Cor 5. Note how Paul ''singles'' out a person guilty of a specific sin, ''incest''. There were many other sinners in the church. Yet he singles out a person committing a certain sin.

When we ''remove'' all pre-conceived ideas and just look at it logically, the following becomes clear.

1. If the unsaved know to sentence a murderer to a longer prison sentence then a thief, how much more us, how much more a just God? If the unsaved debate all year long about lethal injection for the most grievous of sinners, how much more a good person, how much more God?

There is truth to God searching our hearts and only finding darkness. But there is also truth to darkness having levels and a judge only able to call himself just, if he recognises that.

2. Why will we judge angels in heaven? Did the devil sin long before he got removed from heaven? God could see the devils heart long before he was removed from heaven. Yet God only removed him at a certain point in time. The evidence points to the devil giving in to a depth of intent of sin / rebellion. We judge angels in heaven because angels in heaven disobey and sin 1 Cor 6:3. Must they all be cast into the furnace and be annihilated?

3. How will you go forward in a relationship with God if you know that rejection of Him, disobedience to Him will result in Him utterly annihilating you? Why would God keep hell burning for all eternity as a reminder to us who are saved? Annihilationists make this statement but don't actually apply their mind to it. It is terribly sick of God to do this. For an annihilationist it can ''only'' mean their salvation is not secure.

4. Why, when Jesus speaks to the demons, did they say ''torment before our time'' and not ''destroy us''. Why, if Jesus was going to ''destroy'' them, ''hates''' them, would He honor their request to be cast into pigs? Especially when we can all agree with the fact that there is no more hope for them.

5. Why do good people on earth sign a Geneva convention? The Geneva convention stipulates rules and regulations for the treatment of your enemy. Christians are told to love their enemy, should do better. Why would God be like the Russians who did not want to sign the Geneva convention as they wanted to kill the Germans.

The Geneva convention ensures that you do not repay evil with evil. You show you are good by treating those you don't have to be nice to, nice. If you torture or annihilate, it is not evidence of justice or 'good'.

What I find terribly sick from many Christians is the statement (which you did suggest) that because they made the effort to ''have faith / believe the unseen is seen'' they will not suffer the same fate as venial sinners who refused to repent of their dirty thoughts. This just makes the poor lost person roll their eyes at us. Makes them think God is even more ridiculous. A little faith has the ability to separate one sinner from utter annihilation, to eternal bliss.

There is so much more to Christian faith. There is so much more to God's judgement and plan for the wicked.

'I will bless the LORD at all times:
His praise shall continually be in my mouth.
My soul shall make her boast in the LORD:
the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.
O magnify the LORD with me,
and let us exalt His name together.'
(Psalm 34:1-3)

Hello @KingJ,

I agree that there is so much more to know, and praise God, one day we will know even as we are known. I cannot respond to what you believe concerning God and the judgment to come, for it is alien to me. I simply read God's Word, and believe it, as it stands. I have already said that God is just and will judge justly all those who stand before Him in that day, and that is good enough for me. He has provided the means of salvation, in and through faith in His beloved Son, and provided evangelists and preachers to make it known through the administration of His Word.

God has given me the grace to believe, and I am grateful for that. I will leave you now, with the prayer that God's will may be perfectly done in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake.

Thank you
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

'Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak;
.. and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
.... my doctrine shall drop as the rain,
...... my speech shall distil as the dew,
........ as the small rain upon the tender herb,
.......... and as the showers upon the grass:
Because I will publish the name of the LORD:
ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
.. He is the Rock,
.... His work is perfect:
...... for all His ways are judgment:
........ a God of truth and without iniquity,
.......... just and right is He.'
(Deuteronomy 32:1-4)

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[KingJ]

'Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak;
.. and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
.... my doctrine shall drop as the rain,
...... my speech shall distil as the dew,
........ as the small rain upon the tender herb,
.......... and as the showers upon the grass:
Because I will publish the name of the LORD:
ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
.. He is the Rock,
.... His work is perfect:
...... for all His ways are judgment:
........ a God of truth and without iniquity,
.......... just and right is He.'
(Deuteronomy 32:1-4)

Praise His Holy Name!

Yes amen, nice find.

The two lines that jump out at me as a harsh reminder to us of the importance of not miss-representing Him as wicked to the lost are '' a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.'''