What to expect in Hell

[Br. Bear]

Someone here said God isn't going to send anyone to hell, and especially not into the Lake of Fire. They say God doesn't torture anyone.
They also said, even if God does send someone to Hell or the Lake of Fire, it will only hurt for a few seconds or minutes at the most. God isn't wicked and He wouldn't do this.

Please read:

Universalism

Universalism Universalism is the teaching that all people will be saved. Some say that it is through the atonement of Jesus that all will ultimately be reconciled to God. Others just say that all will go to heaven sooner or later, whether or not they have...

www.talkjesus.com

Bless you ....><>

 

[Truthcomber]

Saviour of the World Series
Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World:

This article explains it all for those with eyes to see.
EDIT: the series of articles explain or teach what they do in order to get the reader to see what they are teaching. However, simply because one sees what is being taught does not qualify that being taught.

 

[KingJ]

It is hard to pin down exactly because it changes a little from time to time.

Someone here said God isn't going to send anyone to hell, and especially not into the Lake of Fire. They say God doesn't torture anyone.
They also said, even if God does send someone to Hell or the Lake of Fire, it will only hurt for a few seconds or minutes at the most. God isn't wicked and He wouldn't do this.

Several other people have posted scriptures to the contrary. Not that God is wicked. But rather God will throw people into the Lake of fire, and they will burn forever and ever.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Matt 18:8; "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

2 Thes 1:9; These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Just shocking how you teach on hell.

You properly analyze and research other topics, but when it comes to hell you just read scripture ''as is''.

 

[KingJ]

We cry out for true and lasting justice, then fault God for taking evil too seriously by administering eternal punishment. We can’t have it both ways. Sin is evil; just punishment of sin is good. Hell is an eternal correction of and compensation for evil. It is justice. To fear and dread Hell is understandable, but to argue against Hell is to argue against justice.
Hell is not evil; it’s a place where evil gets punished. Hell is not pleasant, appealing, or encouraging. But Hell is morally good, because a good God must punish evil. ..........Randy Alcorn

Eternal torture is justice? Are you kidding?

 

[KingJ]

I am sorry I do not know exactly what is going on here. It seems like several people are disagreeing with you. I'm not sure what's up but I jave the feeling that this is based on a misconception or misunderstanding on everyone's part because I keep hearing the words torture and punishment. Cpuld you please share with me what the op is but in a very condensed version? What are you saying that people disagree with?

The OP addresses the only three certainties on punishment in hell.

1. It is eternal separation Matt 25:46.
2. It is torment from being cast out of the presence of God and the saints Luke 13:28.
3. Your eternity / parties / sport / visitations are not that great as everyone around you are evildoers Luke 13:27.

People quote fire and darkness with no discernment whatsoever. People '''weep and gnash their teeth''' ONLY because they are cast out of the presence of God Luke 13:28.

 

[KingJ]

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Matt 18:8; "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

2 Thes 1:9; These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Read Jude 1:7 properly.

Sodom is an example of what is to come in the punishment of eternal fire.

What happened in Sodom? God rained fire and brimstone down Gen 19:24, the smoke went up as though it were a furnace Gen 19:28.

Let's analyze: Was anyone tortured? No. God did not rain a low volume of fire and brimstone down over 40 days and 40 nights. He destroyed the city instantly. IE People likely died of carbon monoxide, shock, suffocation or a heat stroke before being burnt. If burnt / in the fire and death is an inevitability, your brain deduces this and shuts down after 20-30 seconds.

So, we don't see any torture from God. Fact. As God is good Psalm 136:1, there are only two options:

Option 1:

With a literal interpretation as you seem to be taking BAC, you should believe in annihilation with an eternal fire that burns as a reminder.

Option 2:

Just as darkness is symbolic for evil John 3:19, fire can be symbolic for not having God's peace. As scripture contrasts fire with peace in Luke 12:49-51 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.

______________________________

Even a closer look at your scripture quoted Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.. You underline the ''torment part'' but what of the ''reason'' for the torment? Namely ''they have no rest day or night''.

The one scripture you quoted is a touch cookie. Namely Rev 14:10 he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. This verse speaks to actual fire and brimstone being 'rained' on the devil. If we are to look at Sodom as Jude 1:7 suggests or consider the type of punishment those saints in heaven want on those that killed them in Rev 6:10 or if we look at the punishment Jesus endured when He was bruised, we are not out of line to think of this punishment on the devil as momentary.

If we had to take the ''worst reading'' of it possible. Namely, the devil will literally burn on fire and scream for all eternity. Well further questions just bounce up.

This is a type of eternal brazen bull punishment. The MOST wicked of people on the planet would use the brazen bull. Nobody who signed the Geneva convention would do this to their enemy. No Christian would EVER sentence someone to this. If the devils knew God was going to be so ''WICKED'' to them, why did they not curse Jesus? Why did Jesus not show UTTER HATRED for them when He encountered them? When God speaks to the devil? Surely we can expect a Nero to Christian type discussion to ensue if one party is going to place the other in a brazen bull? Do you see ANY hatred from Jesus to the devil or statements of terror and unfair treatment coming in hell from the devil in Matt 4:1-11? No, none! Absolutely none!!!!!!

______________________________

The word TORTURE is NOT synonymous with the words GOOD, RIGHTEOUS, LOVE, HOLY and never will be. STOP espousing God is the devil! Torture is ALWAYS evidence of wickedness.

God IS righteous in ALL HIS WAYS Psalm 145:17. God is incapable of torture. There is no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

Every person on the planet agrees that torture is wicked. Unless perhaps you smoking some imported grass from Brazil.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- I just googled "brazen bull" to find out what it was actually about. People would be in that structure, locked in and a fire would be set under it -- gradually cooking/ roasting the people inside of it. It was designed by a guy who thought it was pretty ingenius. Christians were put in it to die. So I don't understand why you compare the brazen bull to eternity in hell.

As has been said several times -- the lake of fire and brimstone isn't meant for people -- only for satan, the false prophet and the beast. Believers are not any of those three. And God tells all of us how to stay Out of there. 'we' end up there through our own choice. And hell is as eternal as heaven will be.

So, now you don't believe God is omniscient?

And even if hell Will be eternal 'torture' for those three entities -- God IS telling us Now about it and is telling mankind / us/ how to avoid it. So-- why not just believe God's Word and follow His ways in the 1st place. AND warn people about the reality Of hell in their futures UNLESS they Do turn to God which is possible through the blood shed by Jesus Christ on the cross.

I think you are missing the boat. If there is eternal ''torture'', God is wicked. Who wants to be with a wicked God. You are ok with that?

You've been on a rampage about weather or not God is impartial or partial -- God is 'just' in all He does.

No, you have insinuated God is partial. I have told you He is impartial Acts 10:34.

There Is a penalty for sinning. Acknowledge the existence of sin and it's penalties -- do something about it. But 'doing something about it" does Not mean trying to by-pass the existence Of hell or the consequences of being there and making it sound like a short time of suffering -- when the Reality IS -- as God's Word says -- a horrible place of pain / suffering that No one will want to stay once they begin to experience it. And That is what satan wants -- for 'us' to down-play it's existence -- so that the 'world' will simply imagine that they will be with all their ungodly friends having a good ole time sinning all they want with their friends with no God around to spoil their fun. And what a shock they will find when they get to the Reality Of Hell. But with No way of escape.

I am not downplaying hell. I am trying to properly discern it as miss-representation of it taints God, terribly!

 

[KingJ]

I accept The Word of God as Truth, All of it brother.

If God said, in His Word, the moon was made of cheese, I would believe it, and hope it was Cheddar Cheese.

:grin:

We are told to be like little children my friend, if our Father says it, we are to believe it as little children.

Simples

We can become our own stumbling block!

If the devil was god, would still accept it?

You are reading and teaching of a wicked god. You are forgetting that I and many others are only Christians because God is good. As David grasped Psalm 136:1.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings KingJ,

did you ever read, "Tortured for Christ"


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@KingJ

Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows; yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:4

greetings again,

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7

on behalf of the Members you replied to i would like to ask that you practice what you preach a bit and do a deeper research in Scripture.
For example, your suggestion of

after 20-30 seconds

doesn't match the time we have recorded for many others who suffered and died in Scripture.

While i might applaud you for standing up for God and His 'character' you would do well to rethink some of what you say in the light of all Scripture.
I agree that God is not wicked and i am quite sure that all you recently replied to agree also.
we live in a very temporal zone while we walk and talk and think carnally or in the flesh and we usually base our ideas about God on our own limitation not His.
Do you remember the Book of Job? [quite sure you do]
I am always sobered immensly when reading when the LORD demands of Job an answer. A sort of "who are you to question Me?"
One would have thought that the LORD would have dealt with the other offending 'companions' first and then gently picked up Job in his extreme suffering and tended to his wounds and patted him gently and told him that it will be okay, Maybe even a healing miracle as we see Jesus gave for so many. Or, perhaps, sorry about that, Job, I gave satan permission....

Speaking of Jesus, how long do you think i took Him to die for our sin? I know He didn't die when they flogged Him to bleeding. Do you think it was something that God has no interest in? Or does He say to Himself, oh well, it'll pass. Surely we have a great testimony of exactly how God will deal with those who persecute His Son? With a quick and easy cleansing death, no doubt? How kind! So. why all the suffering and pain?!!!!! Why do little children die long slow agonizing and confusing deaths. Do you really think that it is nothing to God and that because He has a plan to be kind to evil doers here or 'up there' He tolerates the cruel suffering in this world?

Being sawn in half is probably not the quickest death inflicted on His saints. either.

On the other hand, how long would it take to die if bitten by a snake?

If you look at the account of the world being purged by water, do you think it was a fairly easy death for the many who perished? I don't. But, LIKE US ALL TODAY, those who perished had many, many years of warning and they mocked and dismissed it all to their demise.

As a Moderator, if i gave you a warning would you take heed? And if you didn't would i be wicked if i went ahead and kept my word for the preservation of TalkJesus and it's Members?

Next time you are out and about, will you take heed to the laws of your land or will you mock them and break the law big time in the face of the law and then when rightly brought to justice, would you start saying how wicked the authorities were? Is that what you teach your children?

Rather than tearing into all your fellow members, and telling them that God is not wicked, which they already know, try taking some time to talk about Jesus Who endured for you and me and your fellow members and see if you can be a part of edifying the Body in love by your words.
we all need Him and for me, it is a marvel that i have not been punished according to my sin, that Jesus took my place for me, who was and is unworthy. is it any wonder that i believe? He has told us that they who believe on Him will not perish. Are you glad about that?

He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
Romans 8:32

Do you think that others in this world ought to be told about the grace of God and the peace which passes all understanding?
----------------------------
Please answer me this one little question and think about the rest for a day or two....
why should anyone repent?


Bless you KingJ ....><>

New International Version
Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

New Living Translation
But it was the LORD’s good plan to crush him and cause him grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have many descendants. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD’s good plan will prosper in his hands.

English Standard Version
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Berean Study Bible
Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer; and when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

New American Standard Bible
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

New King James Version
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

King James Bible
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:10

 

[Sue D.]

If the devil was god, would still accept it?

You are reading and teaching of a wicked god. You are forgetting that I and many others are only Christians because God is good. As David grasped Psalm 136:1.

God's Word. Itself teaches a just and righteous God. Perfect in all His Ways.

God IS omniscient / knows exactly who will and who Won't end up in hell.

 

[Beresheet]

God is just and fair even though it’s hard for the human mind to understand some of Gods actions against His children. God is working towards having family of His children that can live in harmony with all others. To accomplish that goal He has put His word in place and ask everyone to abide in that great word. He has given everyone free will to come into alignment with his word/law or to reject it. Those who come in alignment with Gods word and show they have a real desire to live in harmony with all of God’s creations will live in the eternity.

Those who just can’t bring themselves up to the standards God wants will be done away with in the lake of fire. This consuming fire is very final in that it completely removes all traces of an individual. Not even the remembrance of an individual survives.

Those who are thrown in the lake do not burn forever and ever. God is not interested in torturing anyone. His method is just to get rid of all evil and wickedness in a very quick and final way. The evil are totally consumed and out of the way. So what is expected in Hell? To be totally blotted out, done away with to the point that not even the remembrance of an individual survives.

One last thing, God does not who will be thrown in the lake of fire, nor does He want to know. God gave everyone freewill for them to decide where they end up. When God takes things out of his hands and give free will to all, God can only stand back and watch. It is the individual that makes the decision not God. Free will is the only way to read someone’s true heart.

If God knows who will go into the lake of fire from the very beginning why is He taking the slow road in getting that done?Why put man through all the trials and tribulations knowing He was just going to throw them in the lake of fire anyway. Doesn’t make sense my friends. God knows how to get things accomplished. He knows the quickest path to any solution. He knows the shortest point between A and B.

What I’m saying, God has given free will to everyone and by doing so He has taken out the equation of knowing exactly what an individual may do and think. He no longer knows how that individual life will play out. Free will means exactly that. One true heart does not play out till the very end and at that point God can pass judgment.

God does not know how a free will persons life will play out. God probably has a good idea who will make it and who will not, God just sits back and watches, the individual makes their choice.

 

[B-A-C]

Please read:

Yes, I am very familiar with this teaching. I have debated this several times over the years hereon TJ. It appears some of these people are still around, though some deny it.

 

[Sue D.]

@Beresheet -- part of what you believe is called 'annihilation' -- it's wishful thinking, but not Scriptural. look at Rev. 20:10 / Matt 25:46 / Rev. 14:10-11 / 2 Thess. 1:9

God is eternal -- everlasting life means exactly that. Both in heaven and hell.

Omniscience is God knowing how we will exercise our free will.

And, you're right -- it IS what You are saying but not what Scripture is saying. 'We' should be staying with Scripture.

 

[Beresheet]

When it all plays out in Gods great plan of salvation, the evil will be rooted out and their punishment will be swift. The lake of fire is not a fiery lake like one would think. God is a consuming fire, meaning He is all powerful. He spoke and brought man into being, at the end time He will speak again, and take some out. That means gone, finished, blotted out, not evens the remembrance survives. There is nothing to expect in Hell. Life does not go on for people sentenced there. Their just blotted out.

Just can’t bring myself to believe we have a God that would sentence a child that He loved, to a place like Hell, where there is nothing but pain and suffering forever. I’m sure the thought of carrying out His decree is heavy on His mind. But If God said, it’s going to happen my friend. God mourns the time he has to says, “LET THESE, BE NO MORE”.

Raises His head and says, “to my good and faithful servants, welcome to the ETERNITY.

 

[Beresheet]

Sue, I’m familiar with what it says about being punished forever. I don’t believe that was meant, like it reads in the English. Our emotions are very akin to God’s. You think it would make you feel good knowing you were making you own children suffer terribly.

God saying, “ let me walk over and look into the door Hell and see how many are begging now. Oh that makes me feel good to see all that suffering.” I know this sarcasm but do you really believe God would allow this on his resume. No way my friends.

God, simply speaks and the wicked are gone. Their remembrance does not exist. It’s a very natural thing. You dig?

 

[Sue D.]

@Beresheet -- that which I 'dig' is that you don't agree with Scripture.

For one thing -- not all people ever born Are 'God's children'. Only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

God has not sentenced any of His children To hell. Becoming a child of God is what enables a person To be saved From hell.

IF hell was simply death / a physical body left to decay / rot. Then I'd -- not all that bad. But Scripture says differently as those passages tell us that I shared. Back in post #213 -- you simply choose to not believe the English?! And if all we had was it in Latin would you say -- sorry don't believe what the Latin says so I don't accept it. But put it in English.

So -- go back to the original language and read what it 'really' says. Share That with me.

 

[Br. Bear]

Yes, I am very familiar with this teaching. I have debated this several times over the years hereon TJ. It appears some of these people are still around, though some deny it.

yes and it has quite a carnal appeal, so much so that many can not resist partaking and then becoming lost in it all


Bless you ....><>

 

[Sue D.]

@ Br.Bear and B.-A-C -- you're referring to the belief of annihialism -- that hell / lake of fire and brimstone -- isn't real -- that non-saved people will simply cease to exist when they die. No one wants to take personal responsibility for suffering for their sins. Everything seems to be someone else's fault. So,ya, it would be 'easier' for the sinner to simply cease to exist when they die. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

And Br. Bear has just made a comment about another thread I was just on.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Sue,

@ Br.Bear and B.-A-C -- you're referring to the belief of annihialism -- that hell / lake of fire and brimstone -- isn't real -- that non-saved people will simply cease to exist when they die. No one wants to take personal responsibility for suffering for their sins. Everything seems to be someone else's fault. So,ya, it would be 'easier' for the sinner to simply cease to exist when they die. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

no, i think you perhaps misunderstood what was being referred to.

This is what i asked/suggested B-A-C @B-A-C to read although i figured he had or at least already knew the in's and out's, as he confirmed.

Universalism

Universalism Universalism is the teaching that all people will be saved. Some say that it is through the atonement of Jesus that all will ultimately be reconciled to God. Others just say that all will go to heaven sooner or later, whether or not they have...

www.talkjesus.com

It is something that is behind several posts/threads here at present by a small percentage of members.
It may be that they will continue to choose Universalism and attempting to propagate it, in which case they will be finding themselves in a place looking for reconciliation or whatever they call it.

thank you for asking/commenting


Bless you ....><>