What to expect in Hell

[Sue D.]

Br.Bear -- thanks for your explanation. It would seem that no one wants anyone to actually go to hell. No one ever wants to experience pain or anything negative. Everybody go to heaven and all problems would be solved. God's already solved our problems -- eternally -- just His way rather than our way.

 

[Br. Bear]

just His way rather than our way.

and some might say, His Way or the highway!

In fact, what is or Who is, God's Way? Therein is the answer if folks could and would look to and follow His Way.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
John 14:6


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

People want to hear and believe what makes them feel good, they cant handle the truth !! but as long as we are on earth its never to late to repent and come to the truth, so keep on praying for them all in Jesus name

 

[B-A-C]

Read Jude 1:7 properly.

Sodom is an example of what is to come in the punishment of eternal fire.

What happened in Sodom? God rained fire and brimstone down Gen 19:24, the smoke went up as though it were a furnace Gen 19:28.

Jude is using a triple layer here.
What is the book of Jude really about?

Jude 1:3; Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5; Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:8; Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.

This book is really about "certain persons" who "have crept in unnoticed" who "turn the grace of God into" a license to sin.
The next four verses compares these persons to other people.
In verse 5, these people are being compared to the people God "saved" out of Egypt. But they went back to unbelieving and God destroyed them.
In verse 6, these people are being compared to the angels that rebelled. They have been in "eternal bonds" ever since, and are waiting for "the judgment of the great day".
In verse 7, the Angels in verse 6 are being compared to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. They will be "an example" in "undergoing the punishment of eternal fire".

Verse 8 circles back around... yet in the same way... "these men" (the "certain persons" who have crept in unnoticed) it goes back to talking about the people in verse 4.
Yes, the people who were punished after leaving Egypt were destroyed, but only their temporary human bodies. That's not the whole story.
Yes the angels who rebelled are being punished in darkness and bondage, but that's not the whole story... they are still waiting to be judged... then they will go to "eternal fire".
Yes Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed also, but that wasn't the end for these people either.

They all still have to face the judgment in eternity. Just like the angels.
These people haven't been judged yet... but they will be.

Jude 1:14; It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15; to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

In verse 14, it says .. "about these men" ... which men? The men who crept in, way back in verse 4.
In verse 15, it says the Lord is coming back to execute judgment upon them.

But just because these people died a gruesome death and the hands of God, doesn't mean their punishment is over.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

They will still face the judgment. If their name isn't in the book of life, ... into the fire they go.

 

[B-A-C]

and some might say, His Way or the highway!

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Luke 13:23; And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luke 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

 

[B-A-C]

Just can’t bring myself to believe we have a God that would sentence a child that He loved, to a place like Hell,

Therein is the problem. I just "can't bring myself to believe" what the Bible says.

 

[B-A-C]

@ Br.Bear and B.-A-C -- you're referring to the belief of annihialism -- that hell / lake of fire and brimstone -- isn't real -- that non-saved people will simply cease to exist when they die. No one wants to take personal responsibility for suffering for their sins. Everything seems to be someone else's fault. So,ya, it would be 'easier' for the sinner to simply cease to exist when they die. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

@Br. Bear is correct. Universalism isn't annihialism. (That is another unbiblical belief). Universalism says everyone will go to heaven, whether they are Christians are not. They believe even Satanists, Muslims, Hindus, and Atheists will go to heaven.

 

[Brother-Paul]

If the devil was god, would still accept it?

You are reading and teaching of a wicked god. You are forgetting that I and many others are only Christians because God is good. As David grasped Psalm 136:1.

You are not reading the scriptures and understanding The Truth my friend.

John 3:1-21 (NKJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

God tells us VERY CLEARLY...

We Must be Born Again of spirit and water

Verse 16 God LOVES the people of the world, that He created, He loves them so much, He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. HE IS A LOVING GOD

Scripture goes on to make clear...
Verse 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world (the people God created) through Him (Jesus) might be saved. <<< Notice MIGHT be saved, prior to this Jesus made clear, we MUST BE Born Again.

To many people stop at verse 17, they don't want to hear any more, God is Love, we agree He sure is, He loved the world so much that He allowed Jesus, His one and only son, to die for 'the sins of the whole world'

Jesus, in obedient to the Father, was crucified, on the cross, He shed His Blood, for our sins. He paid the price, we should pay, that 'whoever' comes to God, through Him, repents and is Born again, will receive God's Loving Free Gift of Salvation. But He did say MIGHT!

Those to do not accept Jesus, according to God's Word, have CONDEMNED themselves, verse 18 clearly confirms this...
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

NOTE: this appears to be the point you are missing, that scripture clearly says, they have condemned themselves, due to rejecting Jesus and the Gift of Salvation, Free Gift of Salvation. God is still loving, he gives us all free choice, He wants all to be saved... but if they reject Him, reject Jesus, reject what God and Jesus has done, they have condemned themselves. God always leaves a way, we choose the direction, Life eternal or Death eternal.

God still loves mankind brother, it was not His choice, He gave us the choice.

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

 

[KingJ]

God is just and fair even though it’s hard for the human mind to understand some of Gods actions against His children. God is working towards having family of His children that can live in harmony with all others. To accomplish that goal He has put His word in place and ask everyone to abide in that great word. He has given everyone free will to come into alignment with his word/law or to reject it. Those who come in alignment with Gods word and show they have a real desire to live in harmony with all of God’s creations will live in the eternity.

Those who just can’t bring themselves up to the standards God wants will be done away with in the lake of fire. This consuming fire is very final in that it completely removes all traces of an individual. Not even the remembrance of an individual survives.

Those who are thrown in the lake do not burn forever and ever. God is not interested in torturing anyone. His method is just to get rid of all evil and wickedness in a very quick and final way. The evil are totally consumed and out of the way. So what is expected in Hell? To be totally blotted out, done away with to the point that not even the remembrance of an individual survives.

One last thing, God does not who will be thrown in the lake of fire, nor does He want to know. God gave everyone freewill for them to decide where they end up. When God takes things out of his hands and give free will to all, God can only stand back and watch. It is the individual that makes the decision not God. Free will is the only way to read someone’s true heart.

If God knows who will go into the lake of fire from the very beginning why is He taking the slow road in getting that done?Why put man through all the trials and tribulations knowing He was just going to throw them in the lake of fire anyway. Doesn’t make sense my friends. God knows how to get things accomplished. He knows the quickest path to any solution. He knows the shortest point between A and B.

What I’m saying, God has given free will to everyone and by doing so He has taken out the equation of knowing exactly what an individual may do and think. He no longer knows how that individual life will play out. Free will means exactly that. One true heart does not play out till the very end and at that point God can pass judgment.

God does not know how a free will persons life will play out. God probably has a good idea who will make it and who will not, God just sits back and watches, the individual makes their choice.

100% Correct.

Some try to grasp God and simply end up espousing wicked doctrines. You are correct in that you say the evidence points to 100% free will. That is all we humans can grasp. God is treating mankind respectfully, impartially. Fact.

Peter grasp it Acts 10:34. Not all ''grasp'' it. Many come unstuck unable to explain ''true'' free will whilst God is omniscient.

The best inspired thought I have heard to properly explain it is that ''God is as good as He is great''. His goodness imposes limiting factors restricting Him to do only what is good. So whilst God can do what is wicked. He doesn't. So, whilst God can know all things, this does not mean He does. If it can be proven that knowing something is evil (as is the case with foreknowledge on hell), He does not know it. He is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

 

[KingJ]

You are not reading the scriptures and understanding The Truth my friend.

John 3:1-21 (NKJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

God tells us VERY CLEARLY...

We Must be Born Again of spirit and water

Verse 16 God LOVES the people of the world, that He created, He loves them so much, He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. HE IS A LOVING GOD

Scripture goes on to make clear...
Verse 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world (the people God created) through Him (Jesus) might be saved. <<< Notice MIGHT be saved, prior to this Jesus made clear, we MUST BE Born Again.

To many people stop at verse 17, they don't want to hear any more, God is Love, we agree He sure is, He loved the world so much that He allowed Jesus, His one and only son, to die for 'the sins of the whole world'

Jesus, in obedient to the Father, was crucified, on the cross, He shed His Blood, for our sins. He paid the price, we should pay, that 'whoever' comes to God, through Him, repents and is Born again, will receive God's Loving Free Gift of Salvation. But He did say MIGHT!

Those to do not accept Jesus, according to God's Word, have CONDEMNED themselves, verse 18 clearly confirms this...
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

NOTE: this appears to be the point you are missing, that scripture clearly says, they have condemned themselves, due to rejecting Jesus and the Gift of Salvation, Free Gift of Salvation. God is still loving, he gives us all free choice, He wants all to be saved... but if they reject Him, reject Jesus, reject what God and Jesus has done, they have condemned themselves. God always leaves a way, we choose the direction, Life eternal or Death eternal.

God still loves mankind brother, it was not His choice, He gave us the choice.

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Not sure what your point is? Can you be more specific please. If you are trying to correct me, I am lost. You seem to be discussing another topic.

You said ''If God says it you do it''. If ''He says it you believe it''. I asked, if God says you must do something wicked or does something that only a wicked being would, would you then also just accept and believe?

Our minds and their ability do not become obsolete when we become Christians. They become more able to discern and judge matters 1 Cor 6:1-9. We can judge and discern what is good and evil on another level. Which just makes the insinuations from many of you here just that much more unacceptable and shocking.

 

[KingJ]

I am always sobered immensly when reading when the LORD demands of Job an answer. A sort of "who are you to question Me?"
One would have thought that the LORD would have dealt with the other offending 'companions' first and then gently picked up Job in his extreme suffering and tended to his wounds and patted him gently and told him that it will be okay, Maybe even a healing miracle as we see Jesus gave for so many. Or, perhaps, sorry about that, Job, I gave satan permission....

Job knew God was testing him. We serve such a great God. Whilst I agree that the reality is that we are nobody to judge God, God is a God that empowers us to do so. He can do something evil as Paul explains in Rom 9:21 ''Potter can make a vessel from a lump of clay unto dishonor'' but we know from the rest of scripture that He does not do so!

This is why I constantly have to tell people who push a Calvinistic or Hell is a place of torture belief to stop cherry picking.

Speaking of Jesus, how long do you think i took Him to die for our sin? I know He didn't die when they flogged Him to bleeding. Do you think it was something that God has no interest in? Or does He say to Himself, oh well, it'll pass. Surely we have a great testimony of exactly how God will deal with those who persecute His Son? With a quick and easy cleansing death, no doubt? How kind! So. why all the suffering and pain?!!!!! Why do little children die long slow agonizing and confusing deaths. Do you really think that it is nothing to God and that because He has a plan to be kind to evil doers here or 'up there' He tolerates the cruel suffering in this world?

Cruel suffering in the world is actually very simple to explain and understand. It has to be understood in isolation to other instances. When we group for example scripture speaking to God punishing the wicked with God testing His saints, we blur matters. I want to dissect each sentence of yours. We have to do this to properly understand why said instance is occurring.

So focusing only on the cruelty of what appears to be natural laws in place, the following is true. Before Adam's sin there was no ebola virus, no hunting dogs killing game over a few hours or kids suffering. Post his sin, earth descends into a state of good and evil. Hard work. Sweet rewards. Love, heartbreak. Well fed, starving. A place with a balance of good and evil. A place where our decisions and actions play a vital role in most of the outcomes. Exceptions of course with weather and viruses. Or not being able to choose our parents and country. God sees it / I see it as a the perfect setting for free will. The good have opportunity to do what is good and the wicked to do what is wicked.

God HATES seeing children and animals suffer. But it is a necessity of true free will. The wicked show God their full evil intent when they harm a defenseless child or animal. Mortal sin and a love of sin is revealed instantly. A person who harms a child is very close to their love of evil being full measure and God sending them to eternal hell.

Now, what we MUST grasp is that the evil children experience is a separate matter to the punishment God dishes out to the wicked, a separate matter to God testing His saints. Just because children endure suffering at the hands of the wicked does not now equate to God doing likewise to the wicked. As though God is just as evil as them....

 

[KingJ]

If you look at the account of the world being purged by water, do you think it was a fairly easy death for the many who perished? I don't.

Drowning is a quick death. Please see my post # 183 for a link to a site explaining what happens when you drown.

As a Moderator, if i gave you a warning would you take heed? And if you didn't would i be wicked if i went ahead and kept my word for the preservation of TalkJesus and it's Members?

You are not understanding my position. I am not against punishment or dealing with wicked in a righteous manner. I am against punishment being wicked.

Rather than tearing into all your fellow members, and telling them that God is not wicked, which they already know, try taking some time to talk about Jesus Who endured for you and me and your fellow members and see if you can be a part of edifying the Body in love by your words.

Why are my fellow brothers and sisters cherry picking scripture to espouse a wicked God? One would think a Christian knows and ''believes'' God is good.

Anyone who espouses a wicked God is doing the body of Christ harm. Utterly miss-representing God to the lost.

we all need Him and for me, it is a marvel that i have not been punished according to my sin, that Jesus took my place for me, who was and is unworthy. is it any wonder that i believe? He has told us that they who believe on Him will not perish. Are you glad about that?

I am a Christian because I was after God's heart. I approved of the teachings of Jesus. I approved of repenting of my sins and turning the left cheek.

I am not saved because I am a lucky individual who happens to be in the right church.

I serve God BECAUSE He is good. If He was evil, I would NOT serve Him.

He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Romans 8:32

Do you think that others in this world ought to be told about the grace of God and the peace which passes all understanding?

The grace of God comes upon who?

James 4:8 makes it clear that we draw close to God by ''washing our hands and purifying our hearts''. Rom 12:9 makes it clear that genuine love is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.

There is NO grace for anyone who does not truly want to repent of their sins / someone who does not want to hate what is wicked!

Many here seem to think '''hating what it is wicked''' is a side note to ''believing in Jesus''. Believing in Jesus only comes after God reveals Him to us 1 Cor 12:3 which only happens after God judges our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-11. We only ''pass'' His judgment if we are truly after His heart.

Many who say they are saved but yet espouse a wicked God and how they are ''ok'' with that, are likely not saved.

 

[KingJ]

Please answer me this one little question and think about the rest for a day or two...why should anyone repent?

Repentance is everything. It is all we have. The only thing we can do that will justify us before God.

Jesus came to ''call sinners to repentance'' Luke 5:32. Sinners who repent are opening the door to God, to Jesus Rev 3:20. God saves repentant sinners from death Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

Many do not repent and reject the light because they love the darkness. Love what is wicked. John 3:19.

One only repents if they hate what is wicked. There is no wickedness / no darkness in God at all 1 John 1:5. He IS righteous in ALL His ways Psalm 145:17. Including His treatment of the wicked in hell for all eternity. IE no torture whatsoever.

 

[KingJ]

Verse 8 circles back around... yet in the same way... "these men" (the "certain persons" who have crept in unnoticed) it goes back to talking about the people in verse 4.
Yes, the people who were punished after leaving Egypt were destroyed, but only their temporary human bodies. That's not the whole story.
Yes the angels who rebelled are being punished in darkness and bondage, but that's not the whole story... they are still waiting to be judged... then they will go to "eternal fire".
Yes Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed also, but that wasn't the end for these people either.

I think you are missing the fact that their is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever in all of scripture, in all of history where God ONCE tortures His enemy.

YET on the utterly UNKNOWN future you espouse an ETERNITY of cruel torture in fire, just....because.....you read.....the word '''fire'''' in scripture.

Did you miss Luke 12:49-51 that paints fire as being simply a place of no peace, explained in post # 206?

 

[B-A-C]

Why are my fellow brothers and sisters cherry picking scripture to espouse a wicked God? One would think a Christian knows and ''believes'' God is good.

cherry picking is picking out verses you like and ignoring ones you don't like. Ones like certain people go to hell.

God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose to go to hell.

Torture isn't always evil. Sometimes it's just and deserved. In fact, it's what we all deserve.

 

[B-A-C]

I think you are missing the fact that their is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever in all of scripture, in all of history where God ONCE tortures His enemy.

Lev 20:14; 'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.

Lev 21:9; 'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Num 16:30; "But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD."
Num 16:31; As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open;
Num 16:32; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions.
Num 16:33; So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.
Num 16:35; Fire also came forth from the LORD and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.

Num 26:10; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, so that they became a warning.

Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.
Rev 9:10; They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months.

Isa 50:11; Behold, all you who kindle a fire, Who encircle yourselves with firebrands, Walk in the light of your fire And among the brands you have set ablaze. This you will have from My hand: You will lie down in torment.

Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Rev 18:7; "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'

Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Lam 1:12; "Is it nothing to all you who pass this way? Look and see if there is any pain like my pain Which was severely dealt out to me, Which the LORD inflicted on the day of His fierce anger.

Matt 18:34; "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

There are more... how many would you like?

 

[KingJ]

There are more... how many would you like?

You are not discerning any scripture you posting. Did you simply do a google search on fire?

Lev 20:14; 'If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.

Lev 21:9; 'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Death by burning among Jews was done properly. Elders would oversee all incidents of capital punishment. If you had to google '''how quick does one die from being burnt alive'' you will find it is very quick. The mind switches off after 20-30 seconds if it is convinced death is an inevitability. God is amazing.

Num 16:30

; "But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD."
Num 16:31; As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open;
Num 16:32; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions.
Num 16:33; So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.
Num 16:35; Fire also came forth from the LORD and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.
Num 26:10; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, so that they became a warning

All instant deaths. No torture.

Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.
Rev 9:10; They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months.

A plague is NOT a punishment on the wicked. It is harassment that increases in severity with ONE purpose. To try and get the wicked to REPENT. God's last ditch effort to save them.

There is nobody being ''sentenced'' to endure five months of stings. Do you seriously not understand that? God is NOT torturing His enemy. These people on earth that were not raptured still have some hope of repenting. It is the only reason God sends plagues. That and as a sign to all that ''He really tried everything'' before He cast them out for all eternity.

I think this is now the tenth time I have to explain the difference between a plague and actual punishment for sin to you. When will you learn and stop miss-representing God? You surely can't be this naive. What is your agenda? You want to teach God is demented and wicked?

 

[KingJ]

Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Luke 13:28 and Luke 12:49-51 explain that separation is torment that causes them to weep and gnash their teeth and that not having God's peace is as being on fire. You assume a literal fire with the word ''torment'', why?

If I had to say I was in torment, is the first thing that jumps in your mind 'Me being tortured by ISIS followers?'

Rev 18:7; "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'

Matt 18:34; "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

Well now you have truly put your foot in it. ''same degree''. IE 1 item stolen, 1 item repaid. Mild harassment of someone for a week = mild harassment for a week.

A day in a brazen bull type torture (burnt alive) is beyond anything the above two are guilty of. Duh?

There are more... how many would you like?

Are you able to find an instance of God torturing His enemy? Plagues excluded.

When one is sold out to sin they die instant deaths. Fact.

God did NOT burn the people of Sodom over 40 days and 40 nights. God did not drown and then save, drown and then save those at the time of Noah. God did not instruct elders to stone mortal sinners to death with small stones over a period of a week.

 

[KingJ]

cherry picking is picking out verses you like and ignoring ones you don't like. Ones like certain people go to hell.

Or like you do when you cherry pick verses that speak of fire or plagues to the exclusion of scriptures that define God or explain the intent of plagues.

Example: If I read that BAC will put his child rapist on fire, I would imagine him sentencing him to prison and letting him burn with his thoughts. But if I read that Nero put a Christian on fire, I would expect that poor Christian to actually be on fire.

God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose to go to hell.

Yes they do. But, there is a big truth to consider here. 1 Pet 4:18 says there are righteous who are barely saved. Hence there are wicked who are barely not saved. God draws a fine line. He knows our hearts intent well. This is why there will be some venial only sinners in hell. Now, would those who were '''just'' on the wrong side of this fine line, deserve capital punishment as those who were unrepentant mortal sinners? I think not. You said it yourself Rom 2:6 ''God will repay according to what they have done''.

Torture isn't always evil. Sometimes it's just and deserved. In fact, it's what we all deserve.

Torture is never evil?

Torture is always evil. What is wrong with you? Can you honestly not see a difference between someone being burnt alive verse someone having to endure a day with an annoying person?

No, BAC, we don't all deserve torture. We deserve torment that comes with not being with God. The result of our choice to love what He hates. The inevitabilities that come with choosing to be an unrepentant evildoer.

In fact, eternal hell is a blessing for the wicked. God could annihilate them. He is not.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings folks

caps lock time....

PLEASE LET US PUT A SELF CENSORSHIP ON THE USE OF THE TERM, cherry picking [at least for a while] and see if by seeking the Lord we can find other words to communicate and please also let us write to edify and build ourselves up in love according to as we have written (see Ephesians 4:16 )

it looks so ugly after a while and i know that none of you want that.

Jesus is Lord

I love you and better still,
Jesus loves you ....><>