What to expect in Hell

[Brother-Paul]

Now if God blinded the minds of those that do not see spiritual things, is he now going to condemn them?

John 3:18 Interlinear: he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Strong's Greek: 2919. κρίνω (krinó) -- to judge, decide
krinó: to judge, decide
Original Word: κρίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: krinó
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-no)
Definition: to judge, decide
Usage: (a) I judge, whether in a law-court or privately: sometimes with cognate nouns emphasizing the notion of the verb, (b) I decide, I think (it) good

So, I believe a better rendering of John 3:18 would be (as half of the translations have it):

Young's Literal Translation
John 3:18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Thank you brother

Allow me to add this from the Tynedale Commentary...

John 3:18
In this verse the evangelist makes clear that, viewed from the human side, what distinguishes those who are condemned from those who are not is believing in Jesus:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already. He then explains why failure to believe is so serious an offence: because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. God has given his one and only Son, allowing him to be ‘lifted up’ for our salvation. To refuse to believe in him, to accept his words and to live by them, is an affront to God himself; and those who affront God in this way, the evangelist says, ‘are condemned already’ (see commentary on 3:17 for explanation of what it means to be ‘condemned’).

19. The evangelist spells out the basis for the condemnation of those who do not believe:
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Using the noun krisis (verdict), which is a cognate of the verb krinō (condemn) found in 3:17-18, the evangelist explains that the root cause of the condemnation of unbelievers is their rejection of the light because of their love for the darkness. The reason why people have not welcomed the light is that ‘men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil’.

Light and darkness are metaphors that have many and various meanings in the NT.
Here the light refers to Jesus himself who came into the world and by his ministry brought the light of truth and righteousness to bear upon all whom he encountered. To be exposed to the light was not comfortable to those who wanted to persist in evil; they preferred not to be associated with Jesus, nor to accept his words—‘they loved darkness instead of light’.

20-21. Two different reactions to Jesus as the light are teased out in these verses:
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by (lit. ‘does’) the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. People who want to persist in evildoing hate Jesus, for he exposes their wickedness (cf. 15:22). But those who want to ‘live by the truth’ delight in the presence of Jesus and welcome his teaching because it confirms for them that they do what they do through God(‘s grace). Instead of avoiding Jesus and his teaching like those who want to do evil, they seek him out (‘come to the light’) to make sure that what they are doing is pleasing to God.

Additional note: Judgment

The teaching on judgment in the Fourth Gospel is quite complex.
God is named as the judge (8:50) but he commits responsibility for judgment to the Son because he is the Son of Man (5:22, 27).
However, the Son says that he has not come into the world to judge the world but to save it (17; 12:47) and that he judges no-one (8:15).
Those who believe in him are not condemned; they have already passed over from death to life (18; 5:24), but those who do not believe are condemned already because they have rejected the revelation the Son brought into the world (18, 19). This rejection of the revelation reached its zenith in the crucifixion of Jesus, and in that hour the world and the prince of this world was truly judged (12:27-33; cf. 16:11).
On the last day the Son will exercise judgment. The dead will hear his voice and rise, some for eternal life, others to be condemned. But even in carrying out this final judgment the Son will act in line with what he hears from the Father and his judgment will be just (5:27-30; cf. 8:16). On that day those who rejected Jesus’ word will be judged by that word (12:48).

There is an apparent contradiction in what the Fourth Gospel says about Jesus and judgment. In one place we read that ‘God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world’ (v. 17), but other places imply Jesus does pass judgment on people (5:22, 30). The resolution to the apparent contradiction appears to be that in this world Jesus did not pass judgment upon people, because his purpose in coming was to save, not condemn. However, having carried out that commission, the Father has placed in his hands responsibility for the final judgment (5:22). On the last day the very words Jesus spoke in this world will condemn those who rejected him (12:48).

Tyndale Commentaries - John.

Blessings

 

[Brother-Paul]

Hi Truthcomber, I was bubbling up inside waiting to post, but you have
Said what was on my heart already, Thankyou.
With Love, Wnl

Greetings brother,

I am sure by the time you read this post, you will have read the previous ones and see what was being discussed and why.

Forums :wink:

Bless you

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Brother-Paul,


Me: The below is a good example of:
2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What is presented below is a bunch of intellectual mumble jumble to try to convince you how smart they are and how dumb you are compared to them, but it doesn’t compute with the word of God.
To Wit:

Quote:
"John 3:18
In this verse the evangelist makes clear that, viewed from the human side, what distinguishes those who are condemned from those who are not is believing in Jesus:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already. He then explains why failure to believe is so serious an offence: because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. God has given his one and only Son, allowing him to be ‘lifted up’ for our salvation. To refuse to believe in him, to accept his words and to live by them, is an affront to God himself; and those who affront God in this way, the evangelist says, ‘are condemned already’ (see commentary on 3:17 for explanation of what it means to be ‘condemned’).
19. The evangelist spells out the basis for the condemnation of those who do not believe:
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

However, the Son says that he has not come into the world to judge the world but to save it (17; 12:47) and that he judges no-one (8:15).



Me: The author contradicts himself by saying that the "Son distinguishes those who are condemned from those who are not is believing in Jesus: with "he has not come into the world to judge the world but to save it (17; 12:47"

English Standard Version
Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him (me: God) who subjected it, in hope.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Me: God wants to show man that you have to rely on him, not on self. God made man subject to futility .

Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.

Psalm 146:5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the Lord his God:

Me: God actually blinds those now that comprehends not his word. He wants to teach them a lesson. You cannot know good unless you know evil first.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Truthcomber]

Me: More mumble jumble:

Quote: “Using the noun krisis (verdict), which is a cognate of the verb krinō (condemn) found in 3:17-18, the evangelist explains that the root cause of the condemnation of unbelievers is their rejection of the light because of their love for the darkness. The reason why people have not welcomed the light is that ‘men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil’.

Light and darkness are metaphors that have many and various meanings in the NT.
Here the light refers to Jesus himself who came into the world and by his ministry brought the light of truth and righteousness to bear upon all whom he encountered. To be exposed to the light was not comfortable to those who wanted to persist in evil; they preferred not to be associated with Jesus, nor to accept his words—‘they loved darkness instead of light’.

Me: Unless God draws anyone away from this state of mind, that is the way he will remain. You will not choose light if God doesn't bring you to it.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom HE called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Me: God calls and chooses, not us of our own volition.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.:

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:...

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Brother-Paul,


John 3:16 (NLT) 16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. 18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.

Me: As explained previously, the church is judged now at their deaths. This judgment can be for or against being of he first resurrection.

 

[Truthcomber]

Those who are incorrigible Love not the light will face their judgment in the lake of fire or their presence in facing the purity of the lamb. Their utter darkness will be exposed fully when compared to this standard in the presence of the lamb (man) who is light. Their will be trembling and gnashing of teeth.

John 5: 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

 

[Dave M]

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

it is amazing to see scripture play out right here on TJ

 

[Truthcomber]

This is the great gulf between light and darkness

Luke 16;26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

John 1;5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Me: God can clean up the darkness.

 

[Truthcomber]

Dave M wrote:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
it is amazing to see scripture play out right here on TJ

Me: Thanks for all the supporting scriptures you just provided. You better look at yourself in the mirror. Knowledge was perverted, now it is being restored.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[Dave M]

2 Corinthians 4:4
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God

 

[Truthcomber]

True, but God allows it for his purpose, otherwise God could have prevented it at any time.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[B-A-C]

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Matt 22:14; "For many are called, but few are chosen."

God wants everyone to be saved. Everyone has a chance to be saved. God doesn't deny anyone salvation who seek Him.
He predestinated everyone. He calls everyone.

Acts 17:27; that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Heb 11:6; And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

But even if the Spirit does "draw" some men to God, they can still refuse, it's still their will.

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

"IF" we open the door, He will come in. "IF" we don't... He won't... in the end it's still our choice.

Me: More mumble jumble:

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@Truthcomber

You are promoting Universalism which is false.

You have a reply ban on this thread,
this is only being posted publicly so members understand the reason why.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[A. Christian]

The OP addresses the only three certainties on punishment in hell.

1. It is eternal separation Matt 25:46.
2. It is torment from being cast out of the presence of God and the saints Luke 13:28.
3. Your eternity / parties / sport / visitations are not that great as everyone around you are evildoers Luke 13:27.

People quote fire and darkness with no discernment whatsoever. People '''weep and gnash their teeth''' ONLY because they are cast out of the presence of God Luke 13:28.

So the entire discussion is about whether or not people will burn in hell? Can the torment of hellfire ever come close to the torment of choosing to reject God and spending eternity separated from the only being who is the source of all goodness, love, satisfaction, amd completeness?

I don't understand how the topic of hell fire is even an issue next to being separated from God eternally. Constant dispair, loneliness, and emptiness.

 

[Silent Prayer]

I believe that mostly, this could already be the case on earth: that most people are spiritually separate from God. And that is why there is so much negativity here on earth. Hell is like a state of being separate from God, despite in which dimension you are in.

 

[A. Christian]

I believe that mostly, this could already be the case on earth: that most people are spiritually separate from God. And that is why there is so much negativity here on earth. Hell is like a state of being separate from God, despite in which dimension you are in.

I do believe that there is a difference between life on earth and eternity in hell. For one the duration of them. Second there is the possiblity of being around good people while living on earth. Lastly, I believe that on earth it is easy to distract ourselves with a happiness based off of granting our flesh its desire. I believe that there will be no such distractions from the emptiness and dispair that we will face apending an eternity without God.

 

[Silent Prayer]

I do believe that there is a difference between life on earth and eternity in hell. For one the duration of them. Second there is the possiblity of being around good people while living on earth. Lastly, I believe that on earth it is easy to distract ourselves with a happiness based off of granting our flesh its desire. I believe that there will be no such distractions from the emptiness and dispair that we will face apending an eternity without God.

Yes, I can agree on this.

 

[Butch5]

Today you awoke to another day on earth. Maybe you are at the beach today enjoying the sea and view. Maybe you are at work and can't wait to leave it so you can go to a party, gym or home to your family. Your loved ones.

On earth we can have pleasant and unpleasant days. We meet pleasant and unpleasant people. There a few criminals on the streets, many in prison. There are children everywhere. All cute unless they teenagers. Animals. Some cute some not so cute. Earth is not such a bad place. There is clearly a mix of joy and pain.

Now, what can one expect when they 'wake up' so to speak in hell.

There are two passages in Luke 13 that say all we need to know. Two verses that are not up for debate. No figurative / metaphorical meanings. No context needed.

Luke 13:27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

Ok, so we awake to evildoers all around us. What exactly does this mean? Paul explains in 1 Cor 6:9-12 that unrepentant sinners will not be in heaven. He uses a plural word for every sin mentioned. Adluterers, not adulterer. Fornicators, not fornicator. Theives, not thief. Evildoers are those who sin and do not want to repent.

Now, imagine being surrounded by people like this. Not for a day, not for a week, not for a month, not for a year, not for a decade, not for a century, not for a thousand years, not for a million years, not for a billion years, not for a trillion years, not for a centillion years. But eternity. That is your company. For all eternity. Matt 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out''.

If God was wicked, why would you weep and gnash your teeth? You wouldn't. You would rejoice, sing and dance. You do not have to live with a terrible god.

If you hated the prophets. Why would you weep and gnash your teeth?

This verse is telling us those in hell grasp that God is good. Prophets and saints are good. No ''evildoers''. Not being with them warrants weeping and gnashing teeth.

You don't wake up to repentant, kind and caring people. You wake up to unrepentant evildoers.

We can debate torture. We can debate darkness. We can debate fire. We can debate the presence of animals and some pleasantries. We cannot debate eternal separation. We cannot debate who you spend eternity with.

Evildoers will be destroyed.

 

[KingJ]

So the entire discussion is about whether or not people will burn in hell?

Yes and it is a very important discussion. If anyone espouses that God is pro actively torturing people in a type of brazen bull for all eternity, they are espousing that God is.....wicked. Much more wicked then the devil.

When scripture tells us with crystal clarity that God is good Psalm 136:1 and has no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

Can the torment of hellfire ever come close to the torment of choosing to reject God and spending eternity separated from the only being who is the source of all goodness, love, satisfaction, amd completeness?

Fire is worse. Anyone who has been burnt with fire will agree with me.

I don't understand how the topic of hell fire is even an issue next to being separated from God eternally. Constant dispair, loneliness, and emptiness.

Well hell fire is exactly that. The fact that God refers to separation from Him as though one is on fire is a terrifying truth indeed.

 

[KingJ]

Evildoers will be destroyed.

How is that free will? Anything less then true free will is not evidence of one who is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

God wants to be good. He can be wicked. He chooses not to be. As such He has to honor the free will of those who don't want to be with Him. That is what hell is.

If you had a daughter and a potential husband said to her '''marry me or die''', will you say that guy is a good guy? That guy is a wonderful advocate of free will and all that is good, holy and righteous.