Sinless Perfection And The Truth That Sets You Free

[Born Again 2004]

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

Nice quote! I wonder if it means that Job was found to be perfect or blameless. I don't think that it means what you think it does. I know you are probably partial to KJV and so am I but many translations say something else other than perfect, like blameless.
Brother, by having Christ in us, God justifies us as being blameless...not the we are actually blameless, God just credits us with blamelessness because of the one inside us, who is truly the only one blameless. Colossians 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him,

 

[At Peace]

Nice quote! I wonder if it means that Job was found to be perfect or blameless. I don't think that it means what you think it does. I know you are probably partial to KJV and so am I but many translations say something else other than perfect, like blameless.
Brother, by having Christ in us, God justifies us as being blameless...not the we are actually blameless, God just credits us with blamelessness because of the one inside us, who is truly the only one blameless. Colossians 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him,

Your doctrine denies both the honor of God and the truth of repentance and baptism-rebirth.
God doesn't tell lies
To call one "blameless" while they do works worthy of blame would be a lie.

 

[At Peace]

I have no clue what your talking about! I am not talking about one striving to be perfect in this life.
I am taking about one that says they are PERFECT, without flaw in this life.

What is the point of striving for something that is, in your mind, unobtainable?

 

[Born Again 2004]

Your doctrine denies both the honor of God and the truth of repentance and baptism-rebirth.
God doesn't tell lies
To call one "blameless" while they do works worthy of blame would be a lie.

It's not my doctrine, it is the Bible!

 

[Born Again 2004]

What is the point of striving for something that is, in your mind, unobtainable?

Yes, what you say you have is probably unattainable in this life but Christian always strives for it!

 

[Sue D.]

Would you rather 'fellowship' with the people who manifest their hate for God, (Matt 6:24), or those who manifest their love for God?

There's a huge difference between people who 'manifest their hate for God' -- and a born-again believer who does occasionally commit a sin. Our love for God is not manifested in sinlessness. I was just "Googling" the subject -- apparently there is the belief that only Christians who've received a second blessing are truly saved and therefore 'sinless'. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell Every believer at the moment of their heart acceptance of Jesus Christ as personal Savior. He never leaves us. He 'holds' our soul until we are united with Jesus Christ. We Are to be growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ until then. We will Never become 'little Gods'.

And, yes, upon our salvation we Do become sons and daughters of God. God's spiritual children. We do Not become a 'son' of God like Jesus Christ is the Son of God. We Do become heirs of what God / Jesus Christ is preparing for us in heaven. And there is a verse that says "Ask, seek, knock.....ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you will find, knock and it will be given to you'. There's our will and then there's God's best for us. God sees the whole picture -- His plan -- we only see one day at a time. We can make very good intentioned plans for our lives -- for next year -- for next week -- for tomorrow. Only God knows what will Really take place.

 

[Hadsa]

I am new here, Blessing's in Christ. SINLESS PERFECTION IS HERESY, hmmm?
Mathew 5:48
48Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.
Obviously Christ said we can be perfect. With that said:
Struggling with Sin Romans 7:17-19
…17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do.…
Living by the Spirit Galatians 5:16-18
16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to one another, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.…

So obviously Paul is sharing from his instrumentality, in the manner he is experiencing his redemption and all can relate. But Christ said be thou perfect? Let's go to the OT:
Genesis 4:7
7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

It is in Christ we learn how to master sin in the flesh. We put it under submission through the application of faith. It is by grace we are saved and perfected. That is the end goal or else Christ
would not have said be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. There comes a point when you abide:
Children of God 1John 3:5-7
…5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.…

Thus fulfilled is:"Be thou perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."
The apostles lived the process, Paul especially shows the process. All the apostles in the end gained the victor's crown and ran their race and won. In life let's pray to live in righteousness and on our way out be in SINLESS PERFECTION! God Bless!

 

[amadeus2]

Nice quote! I wonder if it means that Job was found to be perfect or blameless. I don't think that it means what you think it does. I know you are probably partial to KJV and so am I but many translations say something else other than perfect, like blameless.
Brother, by having Christ in us, God justifies us as being blameless...not the we are actually blameless, God just credits us with blamelessness because of the one inside us, who is truly the only one blameless. Colossians 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him,

It means to me that Job was perfect in the eyes of God considering what he already had and what he had done with what he had. Then Job moved onto a new set of trials so that he could continue to grow. He slipped a bit, but ultimately was pleasing to God. As I see it his wife and his three friends did not do so well.

 

[Sue D.]

I have no clue what your talking about! I am not talking about one striving to be perfect in this life.
I am taking about one that says they are PERFECT, without flaw in this life.

The comment was meant for "At Peace". He seems to believe that a born-again person Won't sin Period. Apparently there is a belief amongst some that a believer can receive a 2nd blessing and as a result be Especially sin free as a result. That That person Will be perfect. There Are some really good righteous people in this world, but salvation doesn't make any perfect while on this earth. In heaven, yes.

 

[At Peace]

There's a huge difference between people who 'manifest their hate for God' -- and a born-again believer who does occasionally commit a sin.

You are wrong...or you think Jesus was wrong.
It is written..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
Servants of sin hate God.

Our love for God is not manifested in sinlessness. I was just "Googling" the subject -- apparently there is the belief that only Christians who've received a second blessing are truly saved and therefore 'sinless'. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell Every believer at the moment of their heart acceptance of Jesus Christ as personal Savior. He never leaves us. He 'holds' our soul until we are united with Jesus Christ. We Are to be growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ until then. We will Never become 'little Gods'.

Google doesn't have the Holy Ghost.
Ignore them.

And, yes, upon our salvation we Do become sons and daughters of God. God's spiritual children. .

You make it sound like "spiritual children" are not really God's children.
Another thread...maybe?
BTW, our "salvation" won't be assured till after the final judgement.
"Endure till the end"!

 

[Sue D.]

You are wrong...or you think Jesus was wrong.
It is written..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Jesus said..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
Servants of sin hate God.


Google doesn't have the Holy Ghost.
Ignore them.


You make it sound like "spiritual children" are not really God's children.
Another thread...maybe?
BTW, our "salvation" won't be assured till after the final judgement.
"Endure till the end"!

Do you even know what "Google" is? Doesn't sound like it. It's one of the search engines on the internet. This forum is on the internet. A person can Also find the KJV and many other versions of the Bible on 'here' to read. A person can take Bible courses via internet -- Lots of good Christian articles are also there. And lots of articles presented are written by born-again believers who obviously Do have the Holy Spirit.

And, of course, there's Also a lot of junk -- but a person has to look it up in order to get into That -- as well as all the very good, educational articles that are there to be found and profited from.

And BTW -- each person's salvation is secure the moment the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us. After the final judgement people are going to heaven or hell -- depending on their decisions made while alive in the here and now.

And, no thanks -- I'll refrain from 'another thread'.

 

[Sue D.]

Do you even know what "Google" is? Doesn't sound like it. It's one of the search engines on the internet. This forum is on the internet. A person can Also find the KJV and many other versions of the Bible on 'here' to read. A person can take Bible courses via internet -- Lots of good Christian articles are also there. And lots of articles presented are written by born-again believers who obviously Do have the Holy Spirit.

And, of course, there's Also a lot of junk -- but a person has to look it up in order to get into That -- as well as all the very good, educational articles that are there to be found and profited from.

And BTW -- each person's salvation is secure the moment the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us. After the final judgement people are going to heaven or hell -- depending on their decisions made while alive in the here and now.

And, no thanks -- I'll refrain from 'another thread'.

Another comment regarding non-believers -- how do believers share the Gospel unto salvation with unbelievers if we refuse to have any contact with them. And That will include conversation with them. And what about family, relatives, neighbors who are non-believers. Do we refrain from conversing with them? Aren't we supposed to be showing Christ-like love to them so that they will be attracted to Christ through us and maybe accept Him as Savior as a result.

 

[Dave M]

I can not help but think to myself that if someone was perfect first they would never ever claim to be perfect because that would be prideful

. Second we could easily see if a person was perfect because I would have to think they would spend most of there time in the prayer request section encouraging and praying for people seeking prayers. Seems some people never go there they just like to argue and cause strife certainly not a characteristic of what I would call perfect.

I can not help but think only a sinner would run around boasting how perfect they are and how everyone else is a child of the devil. A perfect person would never make accusations of that kind to other people they would always encourage people.

Luckily for us we have a loving caring God who has sent his son to die for us so all of us can come to him and repent from our sinful ways and be forgiven and continue to grow in our faith and walk with Christ knowing one day we will become so much more then we are now while we live in the flesh which by nature is sinful. God goes the glory

 

[B-A-C]

Another comment regarding non-believers -- how do believers share the Gospel unto salvation with unbelievers if we refuse to have any contact with them.

good point!

1 Cor 5:9; I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
1 Cor 5:10; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

 

[Curtis]

2 Cor was written to the Church.

2Cor 12:20 For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder.
2Cor 12:21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

The flesh (which has sin in it) lusts against re birthed human spirit. The flesh is corrupt (NOT sin free) and will continually be so until Jesus returns.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Strife, arguments, and conflicts come from sensual desires of the flesh that are ever warring against the hidden man of the heart.

James 4:1 WHAT LEADS to strife (discord and feuds) and how do conflicts (quarrels and fightings) originate among you? Do they not arise from your sensual desires that are ever warring in your bodily members?

 

[Born Again 2004]

The comment was meant for "At Peace". He seems to believe that a born-again person Won't sin Period. Apparently there is a belief amongst some that a believer can receive a 2nd blessing and as a result be Especially sin free as a result. That That person Will be perfect. There Are some really good righteous people in this world, but salvation doesn't make any perfect while on this earth. In heaven, yes.

Sorry, I possibly should have looked back at # 155 but I was just responding to :"Referring back to post #155 Your comment "If anything ... I would say those who teach..that we can continue to live in sin.... would be the 'heresy'. I Strongly disagree" ...this was directly addressed to me or a reply to me...which is a polar opposite of my stance. I see you corrected this, thanks!

 

[Born Again 2004]

It means to me that Job was perfect in the eyes of God considering what he already had and what he had done with what he had. Then Job moved onto a new set of trials so that he could continue to grow. He slipped a bit, but ultimately was pleasing to God. As I see it his wife and his three friends did not do so well.

" He slipped a bit" is my exact point! Job was not perfect by Mr. Peace's definition...perfection with out one blemish or flaw, 24/7. But, those, who have Jesus in them, though they "slip" up once in awhile, are perfect by God's standards which, of course, is derived from being a believer! As far as I have determined from Mr. Peace himself, he never "slips up"!

 

[amadeus2]

" He slipped a bit" is my exact point! Job was not perfect by Mr. Peace's definition...perfection with out one blemish or flaw, 24/7. But, those, who have Jesus in them, though they "slip" up once in awhile, are perfect by God's standards which, of course, is derived from being a believer! As far as I have determined from Mr. Peace himself, he never "slips up"!

Never mind the definition of any man including me. What God thinks about it is all that matters. We are to live by faith which to me means we don't deny the possibility of living without sin while in this flesh just because we have not done it thus far. To deny it as I see it is to call Jesus a liar. So don't call anyone a liar. Leave it between those you disagree with and God rather than argue needlessly... remembering that God alone gives any increase in our abilities or in our walk with Him or in anything that He considers worthwhile.

Give God the glory!

 

[Curtis]

BTW, our "salvation" won't be assured till after the final judgement.

Only those who are not children of God will not know their destination until the final judgement. All born again believers already know they are saved by the Word of their testimony, and the blood of the lamb.

1Jn 5:13 I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, yes, eternal life.

 

[At Peace]

Do you even know what "Google" is? Doesn't sound like it. It's one of the search engines on the internet. This forum is on the internet. A person can Also find the KJV and many other versions of the Bible on 'here' to read. A person can take Bible courses via internet -- Lots of good Christian articles are also there. And lots of articles presented are written by born-again believers who obviously Do have the Holy Spirit.

And, of course, there's Also a lot of junk -- but a person has to look it up in order to get into That -- as well as all the very good, educational articles that are there to be found and profited from.

And BTW -- each person's salvation is secure the moment the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us. After the final judgement people are going to heaven or hell -- depending on their decisions made while alive in the here and now.

As you said..."After the final judgement people are going to heaven or hell..."
Those who do not maintain their love of God, above all else, will go to hell.